I did some analysis of the modlog and found this:
Ok, bigger instances ban more often. Not surprising, because they have more communities and more users and more trouble. But hang on, dbzer0 isn’t a very big instance. What happens if we do a ratio of bans vs number of users?
Ok, so lemmy.ml, dbzer0 and pawb are issue an outsized amount of bans for the number of users they have… But surely the number of communities the instance hosts is going to mean they have to ban more? Bans are used to moderate communities, not just to shield their user-base from the outside. Let’s look at the number of bans per community hosted:
Seems like dbzer0 really loves to ban. Even more than the marxists and the furries! What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners?
Raw-ish numbers and calculations are in this spreadsheet if anyone wants to make their own charts.
Very interesting stuff! Defederations should count as a ban of all instance users, imo.
https://piefed.social/instances?filters=blocked&search=&page=
By that logic PieFed.social would top the charts, we can’t have that now can we?
This list is weird, aside from the length. They must be using a very greedy regexp for this many instances to have their names partially censored.
The text “buds” has been censored, all the instances using the TLD “university” have had “univer” removed, and the word “hangout” is also gone. “Shitpisscum” made it through, so it can’t just be about slightly naughty words. Also annihilation.social is listed 3 times for some reason.
Are these slurs in a culture I’m not familiar with? Does piefed do this everywhere?
No! Piefed is unbiased and good and pure! Just ignore all the things Rimu said to ignore!
-5000 Piefed social credit!
I feel like that would really skew the data, because it would then just be “instances that defederate some big instances (or just ones that defederate .world) and others that dont”, It’d be hard to ban a major instances worth of users with even a heavy handed “normal” moderation strategy surely?
I think the current methodology skews the data; consider that an instance federated with say, Hexbear, is probably going to have significantly more individual and community bans than an instance who only made 5-6 bans before recognizing the pattern and blocking the instance.
If the goal of this study is to see which places most aggressively moderate their content, you’re actually getting somewhat of the reverse.
dbzer0 literally has a community aimed at calling out power tripping mods, and instance admins regularly comment there to call out power tripping mods.
I’ve never have been worried by being banned there by just normal posting.
As they have already told you. This does not take into account the amount of harassment that some instances and communities have to endure.
i’m interested in seeing data of only bans (preferably just sitebans, but if that’s not possible all their bans would be fine) by admins. commag moderation style has a lot more leeway
What happens if we do a ratio of bans vs number of users?
We get a graph that compares two unrelated values?
Unless this data is purely internal instance user bannings, ‘Per capita’ has no effective meaning. As the pawb.social case shows: it’s all one user with multiple communities who regularly bans waves of sockpuppet brigades. Even the people catching strays or otherwise goes to show it has nothing to do with ‘the furries’.
Likewise I wager the SJW bans are effectively one community banning essentially one user who periodically spams accounts.
What is it about dbzer0 that makes them such prolific banners?
That whole painfully public fued against db0 over their stance on zionism may have something to do with it. Like the fake neo-nazi shit being spread against db0 that was just going on this week. It’s a wild question to have in light of all that, quite frankly.
“Hey everyone, look at my juvenile attempts at statistics! Look how obviously bad some people seem when I do a shit job at it while ALSO failing to apply any context of the domain being studied to my thoughts, let alone ‘calculations’ and conclusions!”
This is a terrible metric from the fucking jump. And you did a shit job of it from there. Fuck you, truly.
[Edit: love how ya closed with “so who’s weirder guyz, the marxists, the furries, or the db0s?!” Just painfully obvious how you started the whole shebang, you hate all of the groups lol]
Alternative view: Why is dbzer0 the only instance that holds people accountable for their actions? Why are all other instances letting things slide?
Unsurprisingly .ml is a shithole everyone thinks it is.
The overwhelming majority of bans on Lemmy.ml are temporary, and the permas are for repeat abusers, or bigots.
Ar nar, you’ve summoned the butthurt tankies!
Roll for initiative.
I don’t really see a problem with an instance banning large numbers of users.
The ability to make exclusive spaces is part of the fediverse’s design. Suppose a queer space kept getting flooded with homophobic users, or a Muslim space got a bunch of people shitting on their religion, or something like that. Naturally, such spaces would have a higher number of bans. That doesn’t necessarily show an “echo chamber” especially since users of such communities may be federated with other communities. People complain about censorship on .ml creating an “echo chamber” but half the time I’m arguing or discussing things on other turfs like .world.
The idea that those sorts of enclaves or exclusive spaces shouldn’t exist, as is implied with the framing here, is to impose what us evil, dastardly “authoritarians” sometimes call “the tyranny of structurelessness.” No one would have a space to discuss things outside of the most prominent, hegemonic view, which would more easily sideline and overwhelm other perspectives.
As an example, I once frequented an utter cesspool on Reddit called r/CapitalismVSocialism, which was created and promoted by An-caps and where that perspective was prominent (though not exclusive). I found it was virtually impossible to have a discussion with anyone about anything, because even if you weren’t talking to an An-cap, they were always there waiting to latch on to some turn of phrase and use it against you, and everyone was too preoccupied with countering their nonsense to reach any kind of high-level discussion. I eventually got fed up with that and found that my beliefs were more challenged by going to explicitly leftist spaces because we had shared assumptions and were speaking the same language, and didn’t feel the need to be as defensive. I was never going to be convinced of anything by the An-caps and all talking to them accomplished was pissing me off.
The fediverse’s design is actually quite brilliant, because you can have a space to discuss things substantively among like-minded people while at the same time interacting with other groups.
deleted by creator
Is it even an instance banning users or comms on an instance? Like take out the genai comm bans and see what remains?
Ah shit, I don’t know what to make of this, but it’s juicy
Lemmy.ml is marxist-leninist not marxist. The distinction is very important considering that the former term was created by the tyrant Stalin.
Marxism-Leninism is by far the largest strain of Marxist thought. Like there’s Trotskyists (who are just contrarians and sometimes use terms like “Marxist and Leninist”), there’s some confused anarchists who missed the breakdown of the first international, there’s maybe a handful of confused social democrats who would be Kautskists if they knew who Kautsky was, there’s the ultraleft Maoists like Shining Path, and there’s, uh, what else? Bordigaists?
Is there any actually significant “Marxist but not Lenist” ideology?
You are historically illiterate
Marxism-Leninism is the biggest branch of Marxism, and nearly all modern Marxists agree with Lenin’s advancements on Marxism to the era of imperialism. Stalin synthesized Marxism-Leninism, but himself did not distort Marxism nor Leninism in doing so.
By Lenin, you mean?
Ah, time for some drama entertainment. I already grabbed the popcorn and some drinks.
Yeah I can confirm, they defederated our entire instance because I think leftists should vote against Trump.
i’d say it’s more accusations of being a troll overall—original post is https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/67198913
Yeah, without any evidence. All of the evidence that I’m a “troll” is pictures of Me saying people should vote against Trump.
It’s not hard to find examples of you talking to yourself about yourself from your alt accounts/multiple personalities.
It shouldn’t be hard to find examples of My multiple personalities talking to each other on Discord, because it’s not a secret that I’m plural. I’ve even written articles about plurality on My blog. Here, I’ll show My system’s member list on pluralkit:
If you’re talking about the accusations that random Lemmy users are My multiple personalities, well either I’ve got a serious case of switch amnesia I don’t know about, which doesn’t make any sense because My system’s origin isn’t dissociative, or the accusations are a load of bull crap.
This right here is you talking about yourself, your alt “Mechoselachia” has zero other posts in this thread and is replying to say that something you said in your Grail account was actually them talking.
You also rant about how psychologists tried to help you but they were going to ‘remove’ your Sonic personality and you stopped getting professional help
This is you having more conversations with your alt accounts/multiple personalities.
Please stop your constant harassing of dbzer0 because they couldn’t stand your shit and get some help again.
Here’s a video of Me and Mechoselachia on call together. You can hear the differences in our voices and make your own judgement if it’s faked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFvMkJCw8SA
As for you accusing the abuse/
rape??victim of being My alt… ew.The voices sound nearly identical…
Everyone knows what you’re doing, please stop.
i disagree
and note that I opposed the defederation, yet i still disagree
Okay, fair enough, I respect your opinion.
I don’t know why but the way this post was written made me read it in Tim Pool’s voice. Guess I gotta lay off majority report videos for a while now. Glad to see push back and acknowledgement in the comments that this data is irrelevant. It’s neat, but way too many factors and stretching of meanings which makes this a worthless analysis (with a very blatant bias in the reporting).
Wow some of y’all are pissy AF over literal data being shown to you. If you think it’s wrong then you have free will, put your money where your mouth is and do it better or stop yapping.
Hi Rimu,
I see you’ve banned one of the communities I moderate !europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com, deleting it entirely from your instance and denying access to members who had subscribed from there.
Two questions if you don’t mind. Why are you so ban happy? Was there something wrong with the community or was this based on your personal feelings of a particular user?
So, yes you banned a community moderated by multiple users because you personally felt slighted at being banned by one person.
Thanks for the explanation.
Its like some admins have zero concept of consensus or community-based decision making. They just wanna play server daddy, and daddy always knows best. 😂
I’ve seen dbzer0’s democracy in action, and it left a lot to be desired. The users only hear one side speak before they vote, they don’t hear any counterargument until after they’ve made their decision.
I spent 8 years in organisations that operated with consensus-based decision making. IRL, not larping online.
You don’t know me. Even a little bit.
You don’t know me. Even a little bit.
Your actions are louder than your words. Your continued bad faith and constant siding with other bad faith actors are bigger than your empty platitudes and statements.
Your personality is reflected in your actions. You’re a digital dictator.
You’re a digital dictator.
That’s completely false and borderline harassment.
Calling in someone’s documented actions and bad oath isn’t harassment, it’s the truth.
Supporting doctored screenshots and spreading lies is harassment, that’s why Rimu has done in the last month.
Stop sucking up.
And yet you don’t see an issue with the way this was handled?
So, yes you banned a community moderated by multiple users because you personally felt slighted at being banned by one person.
I don’t need to know you, I just observe what actions you take. You went off half cocked in this post like it was some sort of gotcha.
Also not sure why you suddenly have it in for our instance recently. It seems like you’ve thrown in your hat with Kaplan who is seemingly determined to get rid of the last remaining leftist instances. That’s extremely disappointing.
Also not sure why you suddenly have it in for our instance recently.
Being labelled as a Zionist is probably the reason.
When this was discussed last week with db0, db0 said to just move on as people tend to call everyone a lot of things on the Internet.
On the other hand, it could also be expected than instance admins take actions against this type of disinformation. Dbzer0 staff prefers not too for ideological reasons, but that’s the core of the disagreement: should instance admins allow mods to spread disinformation in modlogs?
If Rimu wants us to reverse a misguided community ban by a community mod I’d be happy to do so. But he hasn’t even asked afaik. We are actually quite reasonable people, despite claims to the contrary.
I don’t have any particular beef with Rimu except for the current hostility towards our admin team. And hit jobs like this post are not helpful.
And yet you don’t see an issue with the way this was handled?
They never will.
Also not sure why you suddenly have it in for our instance recently.
Always has, we don’t support liberal capitalism. That’s worse than the fascists they hang out with, while claiming they fight fascism.
That’s why you made the choice to code in your biases into PieFed without reaching a consensus with anyone first.
You must love how the top communities on .social are all meme communities.
That’s incorrect, there were several discussions with the community on the Piefed Matrix regarding those settings, which is why they became opt out by default and optional.
Not all of them are.
Ok so you know about consensus-based decisionmaking but refuse to implement it. You understand that’s worse right?
They don’t understand anything that wasn’t hard coded into their mind like PieFed.
That’s incorrect, there were several discussions with the community on the Piefed Matrix regarding those settings, which is why they became opt out by default and optional.
without further explanation, looking at the mod’s modlog posted above makes me inclined to go ask PTB…
I opened this thread last week: https://lazysoci.al/post/46564840
Based on the modlog, the mod hasn’t revised their judgement
You were literally using the community as an attack vector against users
I was not. Another mod banned Rimu. Rimu could have just as easily banned that single user instead of deleting entire communities.
I’m looking at the modlog right now and there’s about 30 bans coming from one mod on that community, that all say “s”. That’s the reason for those 30 bans, “s”. The letter S. That one person handed out 30 bans for the letter S.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&modId=14007283
europe@lemmy.dbzer0.com has returned to piefed.social after we confirmed that the moderator in questions mod-logs would not continue to fderate out.
After removing all subscriptions, deleting all votes, you’ve handed back an empty husk because Rimu’s fragile ego was bruised. Cheers! Great leadership on display at PieFed.social lately.
Holy mother of God that modlog. It’s almost up to 80 pages in 12 months 🤯
That being said, people who downvote AI content can be quite overwhelming on this platform. Our community !imageai@sh.itjust.works was very vibrant in the early days but seems to have been slowly crushed by the neverending stream of downvotes. It’s pretty discouraging when you go through the effort of creating and posting something and it gets randomly downvoted by anonymous accounts that seem to have been created just for the purpose of downvoting. But that’s just kinda how it is I guess, I’m not sure if anything can be done about it.
All things GenAI deserve to be downvoted. That’s why you might find it downvoted.
I’m ambivalent about it. I’m no fan of AI, but on the other hand people were having fun in that community and it seemed pretty harmless to me. I think when it comes to AI, it’s probably more reasonable to go after the companies who are spending billions developing it, rather than the common people who are just using it because it’s there and it’s free.
Nothing about genAI is harmless. Copyright theft, environmental disasters, hardware inflation, AI psychosis, general dumbing down of society, and causing the next Great Depression are harmful, for starters. Using it because “it’s there and it’s free” does not abdicate them from responsibility for promoting an incredibly harmful technology.
I don’t believe in free will so I can’t really hold average people responsible in such a basic way.
Ultimately, trying to solve the problem by going after the end result just isn’t going to work. Even if you want to blame the end users personally, you’re not going to solve anything without going after the source of the problem, which is the development of the technology in the first place, along with the availability and lack of regulation.
You could make similar arguments about using computers or social media in general tbh. The crux of the problem isn’t that people are using the tools that are made available to them, it’s that tools are being made available without properly considering the long term negative consequences, and only with a view towards short term profits.
I don’t believe in free will
LOL what!? Please elaborate because this sounds like a fundamental, much deeper problem than what we’re discussing.
trying to solve the problem by going after the end result just isn’t going to work
I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. I’m not “going after the end result”, I’m just holding the responsible parties responsible.
you’re not going to solve anything without going after the source of the problem, which is the development of the technology in the first place
Development would end tomorrow if people stopped using it.
You could make similar arguments about using computers
Uhhh no, I don’t think so. You could make similar arguments regarding computers in the context of consumerism and lack of ability or willingness to repair or demand repairability, yes.
or social media
Not in general. All the major platforms, I can and do make a very similar argument.
The crux of the problem isn’t that people are using the tools that are made available to them, it’s that tools are being made available without properly considering the long term negative consequences, and only with a view towards short term profits.
Incorrect, it is both.
I think you’re making an easy mistake to make. You see an account with no comments and assume it was created by some shadow organisation just to downvote things. But what you need to understand is, 99% of users on any social media are lurkers. 90% of people just browse. 9% of people browse and vote. 0.9% of people browse, vote, and comment. And 0.1% of people actually make regular posts. So 9/10 people who downvote your posts, just organically, are people who never comment. Because that’s how social media works.
Rimu’s Piefed moderation tools can help somewhat. Rimu put in an “attitude” score that shows how often a user up/downvotes. But even that can mess up. When I told one friend about piefed’s attitude feature, She said “But I only vote when a post is actually breaking the rules. So I can be punished for voting? Okay, then I just won’t even vote on piefed”. That’s the truth about this stuff: There are billions of people out there using social media in a way you will never be able to relate to. Because everyone is different.
Nah, I’m aware of how many lurkers there are. I’m not assuming that the accounts were created by some shadow organization or something.
But from the perspective of people who are actually getting downvoted, it just feels bad.
She said “But I only vote when a post is actually breaking the rules. So I can be punished for voting? Okay, then I just won’t even vote on piefed”. That’s the truth about this stuff: There are billions of people out there using social media in a way you will never be able to relate to. Because everyone is different.
I get it. But in cases like that, I think it’d be fair to argue that people are using social media in a counterproductive manner. Like for those who only downvote and never upvote, I question that behavior. All of those posts and comments that you enjoy don’t just come out of nowhere, people are actually putting time and effort to create them. And the only reward they get is upvotes.
Furthermore, upvoting is the way that you push quality content to the top, so that other users will notice the better content instead of missing it. It’s a critical part of what makes the whole community work. So if you systematically ignore the upvote button, you’re not being a responsible user of social media, you’re more of a leech that contributes very little and takes the contributions of others for granted.
And I don’t blame people like that at all, because traditional sites like reddit are so oversaturated with content, much of which is made by bots as well. So in that context, upvoting doesn’t matter nearly as much. So I think people simply don’t understand that even as a lurker, your upvotes and downvotes have consequences. It may seem insignificant for one person, but on the scale of thousands of lurkers, in the context of a relatively small userbase like we have here, it becomes clear that they are playing an active role in shaping the direction of the platform as well, despite not saying a single word. I only came to understand this after spending time on Lemmy, so I don’t expect people to just instinctively understand it. Which is why it’s important to educate them.
yeah that’s exactly why i don’t think the attitude score helps
