At least 347 and up to 504 civilians, almost all women, children and elderly men, were murdered by U.S. Army soldiers. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children as young as 12.
only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., the leader of 1st Platoon in C Company, was convicted. He was found guilty of murdering 22 villagers and originally given a life sentence, but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after his sentence was commuted.
Research has highlighted that the My Lai Massacre was not an isolated war crime. Nick Turse places it within a larger pattern of American atrocities enabled by deliberate policies from commanders, such as “free-fire zones” and “body counts”, as well as widespread racism amongst American military personnel. Many other atrocities were also covered up by commanders.
The issue here is humans. In large groups humans do terrible things. Usually in small group interactions they are pretty decent. It’s very odd. But probably the result of evolution. Other branches of “human” that didn’t act this way were probably wiped out by those that did.
Please tell me you’re not trying to excuse the rape of civilians as “it’s just what humans do”.
It has nothing to do with evolution. These were angry men, taking out their frustration and anger of being drafted, watching their friends die for nothing in a jungle, on the local population. Rather than the government that sent them there in the first place.
The source of their anger fueling their ruthlessness is not evolutionary. It’s manufactured by the ones that sent them there in the first place.
Neither of which justifies rape or mutilation in any way. But it’s why they were capable of doing what they did. Anger and hate.
I’m not excusing it in any way.
I wish I had a way to advance our evolution past this point so that we didn’t have a significant portion of the population that are monsters.Evolution. You keep using that word. But I don’t think it means what you think it means. Because this has nothing to do with evolution. Why are you trying to make this into some kind of evolutionary instinct?
The answer to that is literally the last sentence of my first comment. I’m pretty sure you have a very narrow definition of what evolution means. But even the normal narrow one covers what I said above. It’s practically a textbook case.
US soldiers in Vietnam raping and mutilating civilians is a textbook case of evolution? What textbooks are you reading?
You are so confidently wrong it’s astonishing. You must know you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Wow. Learn to read.
While I understand what you’re trying to get at - that humans in a group can do terrible things they wouldn’t do alone - what you wrote is simply not true in and of itself - large groups of humans do not necessarily conduct massacres, it’s far more of a function of the society and the conditioning of the people - these atrocities were conducted because those in the US military saw the Vietnamese as subhuman, and thus had no empathy for them. The reason they felt that way was because of societal conditioning.
You may be surprised to learn that humans are actually the most co-operative animals on the planet - the scope, scale, and variability of human cooperation greatly exceed that of other animals. Our species is the only one we know of which demonstrates an innate willingness to help others we have nothing in common with.
Some of the greatest accomplishments in human history have been achieved by humans working together to accomplish a larger goal. The ruling class divides and atomizes us to turn us against our best interests and our better natures so that we may be more readily exploited to their benefit.
So both are true. Humans are the most co-operative. But if you look at the achievements, most are done to better one group of humans over another. Rarely is something done for the good of all humans. I’m actually struggling to think of even one thing that was done for the good of all humans. There must be a few, but I just can’t think of any.
Yeah, I get it. The most modern examples I can think of are probably things like Wikipedia and the Internet Archive. I guess you can make the argument that those ultimately benefit those in power too, which I would understand.
You are basically right that the problem we have is that we allow our society to elevate some people over others, which is why I am an anarchist. I believe that we should abolish all unjustifiable hierarchies, and make all humans equal, through a social revolution. If you’ve not encountered this philosophy before, I’d encourage you to check it out. I think it is a very comprehensive analysis of the problems we have, and the only ideology I’ve encountered which actually takes into account human nature to take advantage of any power they have to gain benefits over others.
I finally had a chance to take a look. But I didn’t last long on the first link. Lots of fancy words, but it wasn’t really coherent. At the same time as it talked about removing the hierarchy, and not necessarily listening to the experts, it was spending a lot of time name dropping and raising people up on a pedestal. They only real path forward is to stop idolizing individuals.
The second link was much better. I correctly identified that the issue isn’t the hierarchies themselves, but the people drawn to them and such. And there in lies the rub. You can’t just change the instincts of all humans on the planet. It would take hundreds or thousands of years, assuming there was any pressure to change. But their isn’t. So right now, through luck of mutation, some people are born who don’t want to idolize a powerful leader and such. But those people are at a disadvantage currently. So they are essentially selected against.
A change is needed, but I don’t think we can make it happen. Something external would need to do that. In the mean time, I think we should simply try to ensure noone gets selected against. That way at least the pressure to be more authoritative is removed.
Overall, I support much of what anarchists support in general. But I don’t think tearing down the hierarchy is going to do anything but make room for a new hierarchy. And that will probably happen naturally anyway. It seems to have in the past, it probably will again. The quesion at hand is mainly about if we will cause our own extinction before it does.
it was spending a lot of time name dropping and raising people up on a pedestal. They only real path forward is to stop idolizing individuals.
I can understand that an Anarchist FAQ’s writing style is aimed more at leftists than the general population and is kinda unapproachable, I totally get that. It’s meant to be a reference work with cited references, a bit like an Anarchist Wikipedia I guess, the quotations and so on are from a very broad range of writers, building on their work, not idolizing anyone in particular.
You can’t just change the instincts of all humans on the planet.
This isn’t something which is in our biology, this is a social issue. Human cultures very different from our own exist, we were raised in one culture and thus we have one set of cultural beliefs, but the existence of another culture doesn’t mean those people are genetically different from us. Societies can and do change. It’s not something we need mutations for, it’s something that can change in the time span of a human life.
I was born in an extremely conservative area to conservative parents. I used to support the military, heck at one point I was borderline neo-nazi. Now, I am an avowed anti-fascist and anarchist. For your claim to be correct, I would have needed to somehow evolve, to change my innate instincts, while still living. Sorry, but on the face, it’s an absurd claim. Obviously these are socially constructed beliefs and values which can change.
Overall, I support much of what anarchists support in general. But I don’t think tearing down the hierarchy is going to do anything but make room for a new hierarchy.
Again, you are fundamentally missing the point of a social revolution. The entire basis of it isn’t to “tear down the hierarchy”, it is to build a system from the ground up that makes hierarchies irrelevant, so that they just collapse under their own weight.
I feel like you might get more out of a more accessible format - there’s a pretty fun video series called Q&Anarchy by Thought Slime, maybe check that out instead.
While there are plenty of cultures on the planet, they all seem to trend towards authoritative leaders. There are probably some very small cultures that are exceptions. But it seems to me if you get a group big enough, it goes that way.
As for you personally. I mentioned mutations. You had some differences that allowed you to escape the societal pressure to be a conservative. And likely without that pressure, you wouldn’t have come so far to the other side. The issue is that not enough people are born able to do that. And often they end up persecuted for even trying. So the mutation doesn’t propagate as much as those without it.
No, I’m sorry, but you are wrong about this.
It’s not an issue of biology, it’s an issue of society. Humans have constantly resisted and struggled against unjust rule. The drive for freedom is innate, and nearly impossible to fully quench.
The major issue is that the systems of oppression we are in are so complex that their true nature is hard to grasp, and it feels nearly impossible to fight against. That’s the problem - not that humans somehow “evolved” over maybe a hundred generations to be subserviant - and it can be solved through education and by building an optimistic movement focused on growth and incremental achievable goals.
Humans did not evolve to form hierarchical societies, that’s completely and absolutely ridiculous, I’m sorry. The structures of society we have now are very modern and would be completely unrecognizable (and much, much less free) to someone even a short thousand years ago. Evolution does not happen over that kind of a timespan.
Not to mention that evolutionary psychology is a bullshit quack discipline almost exclusively practiced by extremely racist people to justify their eugenics and race science.
“You should know: [totally horrible political sexual abuse thing with absolutely no kind of warning on it at all]”
…no, I really, really didn’t need to know that, thanks
– Frost
The warning is implied, don’t you realize that? If what happened at My Lai and the subsequent legal outcomes was justice, then that justice can be done to you as well.
it’s sad when I don’t even know which massacre is being discussed, or even which theater of war or era - there are just too many examples
The military had a sex trafficking and drug trade during the Iraq war.
Afghanistan too.
That sounds like something that We Should Know about.
Sorry trying to find article. I think it was US contractors doing it. Either way.
Read The Fort Bragg Cartel if you want more info on this.
Why do I have that feeling that they’ll do it in Iran as well…
Is that what the Denzel Washington-Russel Crowe movie, American Gangster was based on?
Idk but the book was released in 2025 so if the movie is older than that then no
And that is the very few we know of, the more you learn about these, the more clear it becomes they cover them up unless they definitively can’t. What we know barely scratches the surface of American terrorism and atrocities.
I have a rule of “the stuff we know is never as bad as the stuff we don’t, and we’ll never know most of the stuff we already don’t” for things like this.
| Sentence | Life imprisonment; commuted to three years’ house arrest by President Richard Nixon |
Fucking hell Nixon …
“Protect the children and women” Except from my murderous rapist soldiers apparently.
Interesting how this narrative keeps getting used to justify our colonialism. “These are backwards savages and we are agents of progress and feminism” and then, in the course of the conflict, women and girls are raped, killed, and bombed while women’s rights are stonewalled or even stripped away back home
The police protect women,
WHICH WOMEN!?
I’m a little confused did I say the police protect women? I don’t think I did. Fuck the police.
it’s a quote from a song, sorry. i was in agreement with you
Nixon is dead, we will never know.
This is bad. What Japan did to China was worse.
What Japan did to China was worse? Ok. So what? What relevance does that have?
Is that how your approach everything in life? Your mother is raped and mutilated, that’s bad, but what Japan did to China was worse. So… stop complaining I guess? (Obvious sarcasm but I genuinely fear you won’t catch that)
Your comment can be summarized in one word:
“Whataboutism”
Yes, good job! Proud of you.
Then the US absorbed Japan as an imperial vassal, didn’t mete out sufficient justice for the perpetrators, and went on to use Japan for logistics support during its attack on Vietnam. These two things are actually part of one greater whole, one that is still happening to this day.
You can always find something worse. Doesn’t make it acceptable.
“I broke my arm! Well a full body burn is worse. Oh, ok, I feel better now.”
Sure, you should make a thread about that.
“We’re not as bad as the worst of the worst” isn’t the gotcha you seem to think it is.
ok are you a three letter operative bro
We aren’t the ones deciding to go to war and cause a generation of men to have their psychological well-being put through a wood chipper. We don’t produce the propaganda that make men willing. We don’t make poverty rampant so men get desperate enough to enlist.
It doesn’t matter if we learn, plenty of us already know and it doesn’t change anything. People like Trump, like Putin, like Netanyahoo, don’t care about us or whoever ends up a victim of their ambitions. Putin and Netanyahoo know what their troops do and don’t give a fuck, they might even use it to their advantage.
The problem isn’t learning from the past, it’s that psychopaths are good at gaining power. They know and simply don’t care. If voters weren’t such ignorant imbeciles, maybe they wouldn’t vote for ppl like Trump, but they are, so here we are. If customers weren’t such ignorant, weak willed cowards incapable of not buying the new toys, we wouldn’t fund the people stealing all the property and making us poorer every generation. We are all victims of the decision-making prowess of the average voter, the average consumer.
I understand how you feel, but we actually do have the power to change our world. We need to first recognize that something needs to be done, build a popular consensus, network and build connections with like-minded people, and start a real movement for change.
Electoralism has not solved our problems in the past, and it won’t do so in the future. At best, it is harm prevention, and at worst, it’s a distraction from more effective efforts. I encourage people to vote for the candidates they feel best, but to be aware that it’s not a real, long term solution. It’s always just the best of two terrible candidates, both of whom ultimately serve the ruling class.
The problems we have did not start and will not end with Trump, they are in the fundamental roots of our society, and the road to change our society is a long and difficult one, but it is a journey we have to undertake. We are going to have to act if we want to live in a better world. Simply giving in to nihlism is not an option.
The people have never been roused to action simply because of a good idea, or a wise course of action. They are incapable of even identifying a good idea. Any individual that gains traction changing power structures is targetted and sometimes killed for it. We are all in a cage built by the wealthy and anything that’s effective is demonized through propaganda or made illegal and dealt with violence. We are also now on precipice of the greatest surveillance and propaganda system humanity has ever endured and people still don’t notice and stop supporting it. We are at the precipice of autonomous drone technology capable of killing that will be used for violence against the prisoners. All because the general population refuse to see the cage or the technologies that have built it, instead helping build their own system of subjugation. The average person is a threat and a traitor to their own interests.
Of course they have, all of human history is a story of ideas that have changed the world. Revolution is possible. You already see the problems, but you are so deep in the despair of the situation to see that a path out of it is possible. Don’t give up, help me instead.
the American revolution didn’t actually start until Lexington and Concord. it was then further fueled by vile acts of aggression against American colonists.
the threat of the spread of communism allowed the US to enter into the Korean war.
the threat of terror attacks on the American public allowed the US to invade Iraq and even overthrow the leader the CIA put into power.
People don’t react to stories. people react to stimulus. fear, hunger, sex, pain, greed. these are the things that motivate us to take action. because, why would we risk what we have unless we’re motivated to do so.
Stories make people feel things, like anger. Anger gives people lots of energy and motivation to act.
The LA riots for example were sparked by the lack of justice after the police’s brutal assault on Rodney King.
stories are based on acts. nobody gives a shit how little jenny was raped. all they react to is the act of rape.
nobody gives a shit if Trump raped children because it’s all a part of the story now.
you heard the story a hundred thousand times by now. you’re sick of it, and don’t want to hear about it anymore.
this is what mainstream media is used for.
stories are used to satiate the masses.
you heard the story a hundred thousand times by now. you’re sick of it, and don’t want to hear about it anymore.
Speak for yourself.
Look, you can disagree all you want, that’s fine, but let’s try to be a bit more constructive. What would you propose instead, to try and fight against the Epstein class?
War and rape go hand in hand; you can’t dehumanize people and respect them simultaneously.
Not to mention that a lot of soldiers are amped up on drugs and/or alcohol. Many of them don’t want to even be there.
YSalsoK that Colin Powell was instrumental the attempt to cover up My Lai.
War. What is it good for. Absolutely nothing.
Other than fulfilling the desires of sociopaths under the guise of being a patriot
That’s just one village.
"According to the Information Bureau of the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam (PRG), a shadow government formed by North Vietnam in 1969, between April 1968 and the end of 1970 American ground troops killed about 6,500 civilians in the course of twenty-one operations either on their own or alongside their allies. "
“Tiger Force, a reconnaissance unit of the 101st Airborne Division, probably murdered hundreds of civilians during a 6-month period in 1967”
and from bombing:
“Estimates for the number of North Vietnamese civilian deaths resulting from U.S. bombing range from 30,000 to 65,000.[35][4] Higher estimates place the number of civilian deaths caused by American bombing of North Vietnam in Operation Rolling Thunder at 182,000.[36] American bombing in Cambodia is estimated to have killed between 30,000 and 150,000 civilians and combatants.”
The US murdered over a million civilians in Iraq.
Yeah, and those were “woke” wars according to the psychos in charge now.
Robert MacNamara stated that the US killed 3-4 million civilians during the Vietnam War. Since he was the Secretary of Defense during that time, he wouldn’t have exactly benefited from exaggeration of the total.
Thank you for sharing, I had only heard of it tangentially until a Mr. Beat video on the Vietnam War. There’s a lot of fictional media in that time frame that references atrocities like this in that conflict, beyond just Apocalypse Now.
after learning of the massacre, he wrote in his memoir that it was “the conscious massacre of defenseless babies, children, mothers, and old men in a kind of diabolical slow-motion nightmare that went on for the better part of a day, with a cold-blooded break for lunch”.[
yo what the fuck
For context “he” here is General Westmoreland.
I suppose many of the perpetrators who were there are still alive today. I wonder if they sleep soundly in bed at night.
Someone who lacks enough empathy to brutally gang rape women and children are rarely people who feel remorse for hurting others. They unfortunately probably laugh themselves to sleep at night knowing they committed some of the sickest shit imaginable and will never be punished.
Of course they do. People thank them for their service. These brave brave war heroes
Vietnam vets are not necessarily famed for coming back and having a great time.
For a long time, I assumed that veterans who didn’t want to talk about their time served were doing so because they witnessed difficult things or felt shame about what they had to do in combat situations.
These days, I wonder if it’s because anyone they talked to would see them for the monster they are.
