Since Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is apparently still a thing, I figured I’d spend a few minutes before fediverse monster-movie night to collect relevant links:

And a question dug up from one of those old threads: OK, so, Yud poured a lot of himself into writing HPMoR. It took time, he obviously believed he was doing something important — and he was writing autobiography, in big ways and small. This leads me to wonder: Has he said anything about Rowling, you know, turning out to be a garbage human?

  • swlabr@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    11 months ago

    Back when I was a teenager and didn’t know about LW or any of these turds, HPMoR came across my desk. I read less than five chapters before I realised I couldn’t stand the smugness of MC Potter and dropped it. I took the most rational course of action after this and became a HPMoR hater. How could I prove, objectively, that this was a bad fic[1]?

    Initially, I was thinking about how it’s kind of stupid to take a world with magic in it, then write a story about trying to impose “scientific” or “rational” concepts outside of that world onto it. It’s kind of a non-starter in the sense that it feels like the point of a magical setting is to remove some of the annoyances of reality. I mean, that’s the entire plot of HP to start with: Potter had a shit life, and now he gets to do dope wizard shit. Bringing in rationality to a magical world would seem to spoil the whole thing.

    But then I realised that I don’t read that much fiction and that there are probably enough counterexamples where I’m wrong, and that this idea is pulled off well. So I thought some more. How do you write a story that “rationally” talks about magic? I think it’s an exercise in worldbuilding. Like, if you’re going to write a story about a magical world and call out all the ways it doesn’t fit with the economic and scientific models that apply to the mortal world, that kind of necessitates some reasoning about why.

    For example, I remember that MC HP points out that you could perform arbitrage by exploiting the exchange rates between gold and silver in the mortal and magic worlds. OK, sure. The only thing that justified why the magical world hadn’t closed this loophole was that the mortal and magic worlds were disconnected. My argument is: this is fine if the thing you’re explaining is why mortals don’t see fairies or dragons fly around every day. It’s not fine if you’re talking about arbitrage. You’re saying that, in the magical world, nobody, at any point, has seen that you can buy something in one place for a lower price than you can sell elsewhere? Yud, of course, lampshades all this with Potter just saying “Boy, are these magical bumpkins stupid.”

    This is the only example I have to draw on from HPMoR because I ain’t gonna read that shit to find more, but I guarantee that Yud never does the research about how all the models and laws and theories he likes to teach actually came about, and which ones would definitely be observable or applicable in the magic world and which wouldn’t be.


    1. Note: This was just a framing device for this comment. I don’t actually “hate” HPMoR. I mostly forgot about it until LW popped up in my life again like ten years later and I when into a K-hole and learned that the Bay Area, where I was soon to move for work, was filled with technofascists. ↩︎

    • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      10 months ago

      It’s definitely a world building exercise, and I think you’re really close to the ways that Yud does it badly. Like, the TERF unrelated to the now-passed fabric store is not particularly interested in world building outside of giving the story the appropriate vibe. Her world is absolutely littered with inconsistencies and things that don’t really hold together even before you start bringing in the Yuddite ideology and associated models. What a good and interesting writer would do is use that as the jumping-off point. Why don’t wizards arbitrage their gold and silver coins? There could be a dozen interesting answers to that question that could be fun to explore or create neat complications for a story. But rather than actually engage with either the setting he’s reading or the science he’s writing into it, Yud just name-drops it to show how smart he and his friends are compared to this setting.

  • blakestacey@awful.systemsOPM
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    11 days ago

    It was observed ages ago that Yud completely whiffed Mendelian genetics. Here’s the explanation in the su3su2u1 review, to refresh:

    The other model Hariezer lays out is that magic lies on a single recessive gene. He reasons squibs have one dominant, non-magical version, and one recessive magical version of the gene. So of kids born to squibs, 1/4 will be wizards. In this version, you either have magic or you don’t, so if wizards married the non-magical, wizards themselves could become more rare, but the power of wizards won’t be diluted. […] Squibs are, by definition, the non-wizard children of wizard parents. Hariezer’s model 2 predicts that squibs cannot exist. It is already empirically disproven.

    Hariezer, of course, does not notice this massive problem with his favored model, and Draco’s collected genealogy suggests about 6 out of 28 squib born children were wizards, so he declares model 2 wins the test.

    Which goes to show that you shouldn’t try to learn science from HPMOR: the facts are bad, and the reasoning is bad. It doesn’t matter pedagogically whether it’s the author’s mistake or the character’s. And, really, having an 11-year-old boy who has done nothing but read books be the conduit for explanations of science is just a bad structural choice, for the same reason that you don’t see textbooks with unreliable narrators.

    Yud is still throwing words at this:

    the genetically literate mind informed by canon will now inquire how two Wizard phenotypes ever yield a Squib phenotype when Wizards are Magical-Magical homozygous.

    Ooh, do tell.

    The answer is not fully given in HPMOR proper

    Ooh, do fuck off. You don’t get points for the story you didn’t write. And adding lore after the fact doesn’t change that your characters made the wrong decision from the information they had available at the time.

    There is not a Magical gene complex that creates magic, but a Mundanity gene complex that suppresses it. After all, from pure physics we can never get to magic, but in an innately magical universe somebody could cast a spell to create the local appearance of mostly physics.

    This is weird and arbitrary. Plenty of science-fiction stories have magic (or that which is effectively magic) operating by unknown-to-us physics. For example, the Laundry Files books are full of sigils and geases and summonings, and they explicitly say that the physicists are right, in the domain they’ve studied.

    Similarly if all beings start out mundane then no gene complex can possibly create magic in them, but if all beings start out magical some gene complex could suppress their magic. Squibs and ultimately Muggleborns then arise naturally from a population of Muggle phenotypes as mutations damage the Mundanity gene complex, and in turn Wizard phenotypes sometimes yield Squibs as the Mundanity gene complex sometimes repairs itself by chromosomal crossover, with the phenomenon being more commonly observed in wizarding families with recent Muggle ancestry, to the alarm of genetics-illiterate purebloods.

    From the Mendelian pattern implying the Mundanity gene complex is all on one chromosome, the gene complex can be inferred to be artificial in nature.

    For Yudkowsky, operons must be evidence of Intelligent Design.

      • blakestacey@awful.systemsOPM
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        11 days ago

        The same chapter has another instance of trademark bad Yud writing: “gom jabbar” is a torture spell that Draco applies to Hariezer’s hand. Few things kill tension faster and yeet the reader out of the story with greater force than a superfluous Nerd Culture™ reference. And the very next chapter has the smegheaded Death Note bit. It’s Ready Player One for cult inductees.

        • swlabr@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          10 days ago

          References that I thought this was before I looked it up: star wars EU (gom jabba-r), or one piece (gomu gomu jabbar). It was neither and just dune.

          I can picture Yud smirking to himself, thinking of how clever he is for shoving a sci-fi reference into a fantasy universe, in doing so injecting just a little more rationality into an otherwise irrational genre.

          Anyway here’s the rejected RP1 theme song