I would like to have kids, and that’s as far as that joke is allowed to go. I just want little people to clean my house while I get drunk, that’s the joke.
Politico publish a note where european population start getting more deaths than borning. https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-population-shrinking-eurostat-fertility-birth-death-migration/
Implying the politicians in the government are capable of feeling shame?
I… Look, can we be real for a minute? None of these are why people aren’t having kids.
Climate change is primarily affecting the global south, countries that have had the slowest drop in birth rates. Air quality globally has been increasing for decades. Yes, the current generation has less attainability than their parents, but modern life quality is still higher than any point in history. Even if you were to attribute it to that decrease, there have been decreases in resources between generations before without anywhere near the dropoff of births. Sumerian peasants didn’t have this level of decrease during concurrent wars and famine, both demonstrably worse conditions than most people alive will ever face.
Current studies point to one correlative factor: Smartphones. Now, we can discuss why: Personally I believe it is a mix of several reasons, including beneficial ones. I would argue that smartphone have made people more aware than ever of the unfairness of life in modern society, as an example of a beneficial cause. 30 years ago, a woman in Nebraska wouldn’t know intimately the firsthand account of a modern genocide, for example. Let me be clear: This is undoubtedly, unequivocally a good thing.
But we also need to address the sheer amount of slop content and unending access. Shortform content is proven to inflict users with symptoms reflective of ADHD and anxiety. Social media is built to make us not just dependent but addicted. The rise of smartphones has been part and parcel to the loss of third spaces; it’s not just that people lost community, it’s that we have also replaced it with instant access to online communities that cannot and will never be a viable replacement. We let the rich finally build the ultimate circus. And fixing that will not just require a fundamental restructuring of society, but also tough conversations about our responsibility to escape these systems.
The demograpic downturn started decades before that, but in the west it was (and to some extent still is) hidden by immigration.
You’re obfuscating: It’s been well documented that the availability of resources is inversely correlated to birthrates. We’ve had as much dropoff since the phone as we did since the industrial revolution. You’re calling two different rates of drop the same because they’re both drops; that’s not how math works.
Climate collapse, resource depletion, the enshittification of everything and my ever growing misanthropy, are exactly why I’m refusing to procreate.
And no, climate collapse and resource depletion are not just affecting the global south. Not by a long shot.
90% of earths topsoil is at risk of depletion by 2050
Global freshwater demand will exceed supply 40% by 2030
Global human population has surpassed Earth’s sustainable carrying capacity.
Global carbon emissions are still rising
The arctic sea ice extent is declining rapidly and we’re likely headed into a Blue Ocean Event later this year, and potentially a double BOE depending on how the El Nino and summer in the southern hemisphere go.
The world is likely to exceed a key global warming target soon but the earths alebedo with the declining sea ice and lack of cloud cover will impact these numbers massively and isn’t being predicted for, which means that 4.5c above the baseline by 2060 is now possible.
I never said just affecting the south, I said disproportionately. And you’re kind of proving my point: Before widespread information access, you probably wouldn’t even know. And yes, that is a good thing, as I stressed repeatedly in my post; not all reasons to blame the smartphone are bad, many are even good. It is a good thing people know about climate change. About the human cost of imperialism. About genocide. But that alone doesn’t account for the sheer drop, either, and there are negatives to this technology that need to be addressed.
There’s more people alive now than ever before. This insane need for infinite increases on a finite planet is why the world is ending.
Smart phones and short form content aren’t causing birth rates to decrease, that started decades ago when western women started getting access to contraception and gaining human rights.
A) we don’t need infinite growth; what we need is a tapering down so we don’t end up with an entire generation spending their golden years in a ditch. B) As I’ve stated to another user, you’re equivocating. Stop that. We’ve had the same percentile decrease in the last 20 years as we did throughout the previous century; you’re looking at two different rates of decrease and calling them the same because they both happen to be decreases. That’s not how math works.
Lmao, don’t worry about your pension, the water wars will get you long before you’re old enough to retire. Billions upon billions of us will die in the next 50 years.
It’s more important to you to hold some personal sense of moral superiority than engage with the death of millions; your blasé attitude speaks volumes towards your privilege. I have no doubt that the reason you don’t want kids has far less to do with climate change than being able to say you won’t because of climate change.
Did that make you feel better? I bet it did. Go on, let it all out. Tell me all the shitty things you’ve assumed about me because being angry at me is easier than accepting the world is ending.
Yeah I agree that smartphones have a huge role to play in lower birth rates all over the globe.
There is a correlation between the adoption of certain entertainment technologies and birth rates, such as TVs becoming widespread causing a small decrease in births, simply because people are spending more free time not being bored. Same thing happened with smartphones, but with a much more drastic impact.
More recently, during 2020 and 2021 the birth rates increased drastically due to the pandemic lockdowns making people bored and with far more free time on their hands.
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They got close to each other because they were already living together.
Obviously a lot of new relationships didn’t magically form during the lockdown.
Not to mention the clear financial aspect
This is a much better reason, frankly.
“I couldn’t bring a child into a world like this” is a bit of mental gymnastics that people use to convince themselves that they’re being noble and selfless with this decision, when in reality it’s neither noble nor ignoble, neither selfless nor selfish. Every child eventually hits their parents with the classic “I never asked to be born!”, and while it’s certainly true, NOBODY asks to be born, and life has ALWAYS sucked in some way or another. Should pre-humans have refused to have kids because it would be cruel to bring them into a world where they have to kill to eat? Nonsense.
If people simply don’t want to have kids, they should simply say that and own it. They don’t OWE it to anybody to have kids - but they don’t owe it to anybody to not have kids, either. It’s not a moral decision in either direction. It’s simply a case that some people don’t feel up to the responsibility, and that’s fine: not superior, just fine.
And before anyone says that not having kids helps to keep the surplus population down: no problem on Earth is a result of the population being too high. There’s enough food for everyone; the problem is distribution. There’s enough land for everyone; the problem is that some people are hoarding. If the population starts using renewables and just generally going green, corporations build more data centers and invent other novel ways to waste resources.
Why not? Pre-humans were not smart enough to recognise that having children would cause the children to suffer. Perhaps it would be better to simply die out as a species. It all depends on how you view morality and how you weigh non-existence
If it depends on how you view it, then it’s not a moral obligation, it’s a personal preference. Which is fine, but just acknowledge that.
Except morality is subjective and thus inherently dependent upon how one views it. There is no such thing as “objective morality”. Morales are always about personal preferences.
There is no such thing as “objective morality”
Then there’s no such thing as morality, but personal preference.
Yes.
Multiple reasons can be true. I could afford kids but I don’t like them. At the same time I lack the energy for such a constant responsibility. But both of these reasons don’t exclude the fact that I’d rather have humanity die out than set another person in this world as long as the current downward trend continues.
What reasons I tell people depends on who I’m talking to. Especially old people get really condescending if you simply tell them you don’t like kids.
My selfishness pushes me to not make life anyone else’s problem.
Every child eventually hits their parents with the classic “I never asked to be born!”, and while it’s certainly true, NOBODY asks to be born, and life has ALWAYS sucked in some way or another
Just because something has always been bad or worse and for everyone, that doesn’t make it ok.
The concept that either life must be perfect or else we’re all better off having never been born, is a hell of an extreme.
no problem on Earth is a result of the population being too high.
Pre-industrial humans caused mass habitat loss, species extinction, and even climate change, and that was with their relatively miniscule populations and emissions. What quality of life are you imagining over eight billion people having such that we somehow don’t continue wrecking the environment? And how do you plan on putting the genie back in the bottle regarding all our polluting technological “advancements” that require fossil fuels and/or intensive mining? Who’s declaring to the world that plastics, electricity, and all forms of motorized technology are over, and how do you imagine this would be enforced?
Even completely stripped of all our technology, humans are still animals, and any animal species will wreak havoc on their environment when overpopulated. Hell you don’t even have to be an animal; go look up the Great Oxygenation Event or what happened when trees first evolved. What do you suppose Earth is going to be like for the millions of years required for it to adapt to the changes we’re making? Unlike monocellular organisms and plants, however, we are sapient creatures; if we can observe this is happening and know we’re the ones causing it, how is it not in any way a moral issue?
If you accept the concept of objective morality, then yes, it’s a moral issue. But I’ve already pointed out that population size is not the cause nor the solution. These are not actual percentages, but if I say “20% of the people cause 80% of the waste”, hopefully you’ll understand the underlying concept I’m trying to communicate.
No, they don’t owe it to anyone else to have kids. There is a biological imperative to procreate, generally, which I think is why a lot of people treat having kids as the default - something you need a reason not to do.
None of this is really relevant at an individual level. A person is free to do what they wish for whatever reason or no reason. But when an entire population stops procreating, after millennia of compulsively doing so, there is probably some cause worth understanding.
Even in that, I’m not saying it’s a problem that must be solved. Just that there is probably some cause. I do believe the biological imperative is there.
all true, but…
we enjoy our free time, hobbies, and traveling the world? want more of that not zero.
There are a whole lot more reasons to NOT have kids imo.
Generally agree, but where did the air quality decrease compared to some decades back?
(80s kid here, so maybe my brain is to slow to realize it, because of the remains still in my bloodstreams of the lead fumes and unfiltered coal power plant exhausts I inhaled back then…)
Yeah, I’m pretty sure the comic is talking about the wildfire smoke. It smells like burning tires outside my home right now and everything is yellow.
It didn’t. Air quality is substantially better world wide, there are better, real indicators of how bad the state of the world is the artist could have used. But also far more metrics about how better the world is, which no one ever likes to talk about. Way less extreme poverty, way less starvation, way less war, way more access to clean water, way more vaccinations, etc. The problem is the ultra rich are making life worse for the majority of privileged people, and we are really feeling it. But worldwide, humanity is objectively leaps and bounds better than it was 100 years ago
Right, it’s like - is it worse now than being, say, a middle ages European serf? Or anyone at almost any point in 99% of human history?
But its also air pollutants like smoke particles and car fumes. I’m genuinely thinking of taking the bus today instead of biking because I don’t want to kill my lungs.
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Utah
Inversion days in the Salt Lake valley were so dystopian while I was there.
You’re not wrong but it certainly feels like it right now, I’m in the Twin Cities and the air is just so gross right now due to being downwind from the Canadian wildfires. We’re just straight up being told to not go outside with a hazardous rating.
Exactly what I was going to say. The comic is only a couple days old, and I don’t know where the artist lives but here in the Twin Cities there has been smoke from Canadian wildfires around this time for several years straight now. I had to postpone my tennis plans today because of it. My older coworker this morning told me it used to never be like this. The office custodians closed the outside air dampers because the smoke was leaking inside.
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feeling like the whole society is absolute delulu atp. the world is going down so why the fuck would you set kids in this world? everybody is acting like they dont fear the future and everybody is just thinking one day ahead. do they really think its going to get better by magic?
The drive to reproduce is very deeply seated.
never got that. like i get the drive to have sex, to do risky things or somethink spontaneous. But you can think about kids for years. you can always decide and take your time with the decision. i know for most people its not that deep, but for me i never got the feeling to want my own kids. why would i?
Do you think condoms co-evolved with life on Earth? What do you think happens after sex? You’re programmed to respond to miniature copies of yourself.
Even more importantly: kids suck.
So do adults.
@velma little shits grow up to be big shits.
That’s why I’m not making any adults either.
I just don’t want kids. Knew I never wanted to be a parent ever since I was a kid having to help my parents raise my nephews and niece. I could be a billionaire and every problem on Earth could be solved, I still wouldn’t have kids.
I really want being childfree to be normalised. The world will be a much better place when the only people having children are the ones who genuinely want to be parents. I’ll never understand why some people get so mad at the idea of others just not wanting to have kids.
There’s a list of legitimate reasons why people don’t and can’t have kids
@Ryanmiller70 same. And I’m pretty sure my parents didnt want them either. Maybe its genetic lol. Never once have wanted one. They dont bother me and I don’t mind taking care of them for short periods though.
That’s something that people deliberately ignore
There’s still so much stigma in being child-free that people make up more socially palatable excuses rather than just saying “I don’t want kids”
There is no part of my life that would be improved by having kids
Every part of my life would be less pleasant if I had kids
Simples.
@FistingEnthusiast in most of america you cannot say that or you get blacklisted. I always just say well, not right now! Which really means hopefully never because their lives will be only suffering.
Don’t forget there’s many legitimate reasons why people can’t have kids
Child-free for 35 years, then had 2 within 2 years. Entirely a personal decision and nobody should dictate to anyone else how they live their lives.
Needless to say my entire perspective has shifted. Its given me a purpose and an outlook I never dreamed I could have. Your mileage may vary.
Of course it shifted
I find your “purpose and outlook” comment to be condescending, clichéd and pointless
You will spend the rest of your life justifying your choice, and the fact that you felt the need to do so, unprompted, to a complete stranger, who clearly does not give a fuck tells me that you know deep down that you fucked up
You weren’t CF for 35 years if you suddenly changed your mind
You either weren’t CF, or you had kids for some stupid reason, and now feel that you have to justify your “change of heart”
Yep. Having children necessitates becoming narcissistic. I’m sure parents don’t believe this, but to force existence into this world, and call it benevolent is just fucking lunacy. Work on making the world a better place before making new chattel.
I won’t believe you’re a better person just because you did the most animal thing there is, instead of the most human thing you can do and actually work towards a better existence for everyone
Anything two idiot teenagers in the back of a car can achieve accidentally is not worthy of praise
Mate, calm down. It was absolutely not my intention to condesend - quite the opposite. However, your reaction has shown me your true character and I am now absolutely convinced that fatherhood is not for you.
It’s impossible to stress how little your opinion matters to me
4chan is the other way
That’s quite a leap
I’d happily burn every incel, bigot and halfwit that uses 4chan
But, I’m sure you think you’re clever, or that you have somehow scored an imaginary point
I think what riled that person up, is that the first thing people always tell you when they learn you don’t want children is “Oh you’ll change your mind!” or “I never knew children could be so great until I actually had them”, in an attempt to convince you to bang out some children against your wishes.
It gets really old, really fast, and your comment is down the same road.
Sure—folk sometimes share their lived experience, and sometimes they’re insensitive. I tried not to be, and had shared a genuine opinion, based on my own life. But remember, I also had no desire or interest in having children until I did. I’ve been on that side of the fence, and therefore felt comfortable sharing my experience of the other.
To some folk, it certainly stings when they face clumsy (but likely not malicious) questions about having a family. In my 36 years of living prior to parenthood, I genuinely have no recollection of being remotely challenged on my life choices. If I was asked, I expect I’d have laughed, safe in the knowledge that my choices were entirely my own.
This, + my health is awful (so I’m not going to subject another being to a rerun of my suffering), and 💕 boys 💕
Well, adoption exists. You don’t have to create a person, but you can still take care of children who need it.
I’m in a pretty bad way, unfortunately. Stroke ‘survivor’ at 21, with more-or-less the right side of my body as deadweight :(. I wasn’t in very good condition before but since, I’m a burden to everyone around me.
I mean, doesn’t really stop people in some places. Some are raising a family of five during famine, civil war and all sort or shit going on. But those places often have less choice for the women.
But still, most in the Western world, they have conditions vastly better to raise a child than a lot of the third world.
This is fine
