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The short answer is: I don’t want to.
The longer answer is: I really, seriously, don’t want to.
That’s the thing that so many people seem to miss
They want reasons that they find acceptable, not “I don’t wanna”
Multiple legitimate reasons include, economic crisises, extreme economic inequality, the current climate crisis and many other legitimate reasons
The fact that I just don’t want kids is a “legitimate” reason
It’s offensive that you think there are “legitimate” reasons, because it implies that anything else is “illegitimate”
I don’t need one of your “legitimate” reasons. I don’t want to. I also don’t want to have a dog, do I need a “legitimate” reason for that?
Number One: I’m a homosexual, so I’m not having the reproductive type of copulation, EVER.
Number Two: Bigots. They poisoned public perception of homosexuals. They fought to legislate away our rights and prevent us from adopting children amongst many other things like legalized marriage. They pushed gay people into the fringes of society, lead our friends and families to abandon us, marginalized, and isolated us. Those scars run deep and the societal damage is still festering. Even if I were still young enough to feel confident I could raise a child and live long enough to finish the job now that things are “better” and these rights are an option to me, I wouldn’t adopt. I have seen the inside, and I know it’s all too easy for society to fall back into the abyss. NO thank you. I’m already at max capacity caring for adult parents, can’t imagine if there were children in the equation as well.
Now that’s just me personally. On the other hand…
Fewer couples have the capacity and/or desire to support a family, let alone a large one, as it means a loss of income from one or both partners not working, vastly increased expenses, strain on relationships, and a myriad other problems. If most people could live comfortably and with reasonably fulfilled needs/desires on the income from one person and it didn’t require that one person to work themselves to death, then you might see higher birth rates.
Anecdotally, the people I’m seeing having the most kids (like 3+) are pretty much all financially very well off or struggling really badly. There are exceptions, of course, but most couples who are keeping their heads above water (if only barely) know their limits and recognize that having kids, let alone multiple children, would bring hardship to all involved.
This is fine
Not to mention the clear financial aspect
This is a much better reason, frankly.
“I couldn’t bring a child into a world like this” is a bit of mental gymnastics that people use to convince themselves that they’re being noble and selfless with this decision, when in reality it’s neither noble nor ignoble, neither selfless nor selfish. Every child eventually hits their parents with the classic “I never asked to be born!”, and while it’s certainly true, NOBODY asks to be born, and life has ALWAYS sucked in some way or another. Should pre-humans have refused to have kids because it would be cruel to bring them into a world where they have to kill to eat? Nonsense.
If people simply don’t want to have kids, they should simply say that and own it. They don’t OWE it to anybody to have kids - but they don’t owe it to anybody to not have kids, either. It’s not a moral decision in either direction. It’s simply a case that some people don’t feel up to the responsibility, and that’s fine: not superior, just fine.
And before anyone says that not having kids helps to keep the surplus population down: no problem on Earth is a result of the population being too high. There’s enough food for everyone; the problem is distribution. There’s enough land for everyone; the problem is that some people are hoarding. If the population starts using renewables and just generally going green, corporations build more data centers and invent other novel ways to waste resources.
Why not? Pre-humans were not smart enough to recognise that having children would cause the children to suffer. Perhaps it would be better to simply die out as a species. It all depends on how you view morality and how you weigh non-existence
If it depends on how you view it, then it’s not a moral obligation, it’s a personal preference. Which is fine, but just acknowledge that.
Except morality is subjective and thus inherently dependent upon how one views it. There is no such thing as “objective morality”. Morales are always about personal preferences.
There is no such thing as “objective morality”
Then there’s no such thing as morality, but personal preference.
Yes.
No, they don’t owe it to anyone else to have kids. There is a biological imperative to procreate, generally, which I think is why a lot of people treat having kids as the default - something you need a reason not to do.
None of this is really relevant at an individual level. A person is free to do what they wish for whatever reason or no reason. But when an entire population stops procreating, after millennia of compulsively doing so, there is probably some cause worth understanding.
Even in that, I’m not saying it’s a problem that must be solved. Just that there is probably some cause. I do believe the biological imperative is there.
My selfishness pushes me to not make life anyone else’s problem.
Every child eventually hits their parents with the classic “I never asked to be born!”, and while it’s certainly true, NOBODY asks to be born, and life has ALWAYS sucked in some way or another
Just because something has always been bad or worse and for everyone, that doesn’t make it ok.
The concept that either life must be perfect or else we’re all better off having never been born, is a hell of an extreme.
Multiple reasons can be true. I could afford kids but I don’t like them. At the same time I lack the energy for such a constant responsibility. But both of these reasons don’t exclude the fact that I’d rather have humanity die out than set another person in this world as long as the current downward trend continues.
What reasons I tell people depends on who I’m talking to. Especially old people get really condescending if you simply tell them you don’t like kids.
no problem on Earth is a result of the population being too high.
Pre-industrial humans caused mass habitat loss, species extinction, and even climate change, and that was with their relatively miniscule populations and emissions. What quality of life are you imagining over eight billion people having such that we somehow don’t continue wrecking the environment? And how do you plan on putting the genie back in the bottle regarding all our polluting technological “advancements” that require fossil fuels and/or intensive mining? Who’s declaring to the world that plastics, electricity, and all forms of motorized technology are over, and how do you imagine this would be enforced?
Even completely stripped of all our technology, humans are still animals, and any animal species will wreak havoc on their environment when overpopulated. Hell you don’t even have to be an animal; go look up the Great Oxygenation Event or what happened when trees first evolved. What do you suppose Earth is going to be like for the millions of years required for it to adapt to the changes we’re making? Unlike monocellular organisms and plants, however, we are sapient creatures; if we can observe this is happening and know we’re the ones causing it, how is it not in any way a moral issue?
If you accept the concept of objective morality, then yes, it’s a moral issue. But I’ve already pointed out that population size is not the cause nor the solution. These are not actual percentages, but if I say “20% of the people cause 80% of the waste”, hopefully you’ll understand the underlying concept I’m trying to communicate.
all true, but…
we enjoy our free time, hobbies, and traveling the world? want more of that not zero.
There are a whole lot more reasons to NOT have kids imo.
More propaganda so it’s easier to strip women of their autonomy and access to contraception.
It’s not a crisis that the birth rate is falling.
So true
And this people from Lemmy/reddit are… Well, you know what
Kids are pure love and happiness
Everyone should have the choice to have children or not.
Pushing propaganda that it’s a crisis that the birth rate is falling is to help strip women of their autonomy over when and how many children they have.
Governments should support families more than they do because it’s the right thing to do and not to force women to have more babies than they want.
So what does it mean that I’ve held these same beliefs for over 20 years now and didn’t need a comic? What does it mean that my wife holds the same beliefs, and that we’re both pro choice? Am I brainwashed? Have I been for decades now?
Or have I looked around and known I do not believe there is a moral way for me personally to bring life into this world. Adopt maybe, but not new life.
Heck, you don’t even have to go into morals. There are so many people who can barely take care of themselves. I wouldn’t entrust them to take care of another human being as well, and certainly not force them to do so.
As a parent, I will defend your right and choice to not have children every single day. People should only have children if they really want to and have the mental capacity to guide a child to relatively stable adulthood.
One of those things I don’t get, with all if the news on bad parents, why are we so eager to force people who obviously don’t want a child to have them? Obviously it’s not good for the child or the parent.
Of course then you realize it’s not about the child or the parent, but the person picketing and screaming and their own personal emotions. They think they are thinking of the children, but it’s much more selfish.
@scrubbles more factory slaves for the rich of course. You must have a child who will work 9 hours to make funko pops.
I get the feeling people read your comment and didn’t actually understand it so they think you mean the comic is propaganda.
I also have some dedicated manosphere types that stalk my account frequently. Doesn’t bother me, but thank you for your comment :)
I was raised in a very dysfunctional household. I broke free, met an amazing partner, and we both wanted children. I finally have the opportunity to be a kid again with them, provide them the childhood I never had and be apart of it, by having the childhood I never had. My kids are 9 & 11… and we are slowly having to pull back on fun active activities outdoors during the summer months because the environment is getting worse and worse year over year…
I broke the cycle, but their childhood is slowly being robbed of them.
Record rain in my area to where water drainage infrastructure is being destroyed bit by bit every fucking night. Massive tornado inducing storms where we normally don’t see them (a freak event killed a bunch of people and destroyed nearly a billion dollars in property back in the 80s, nothing since and nothing before). Record amount of tornados in my Province, humid as fuck when I live in the prairies. Smokey unbeatable air because of the one area not getting rain burning down.
I want off this ride.
Same. Never had a tornado warning in my life. Now we get several actual tornadoes every year. I love my kids and I love being a parent but I feel so guilty.
In the US you can’t even buy vegetables right now without worrying about getting explosive diarrhea. Just the thing you want for your children.
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CDC is currently having trouble finding the source and keeping track because a few years ago Trump literally dismantled the very programs that were tasked with doing so.
Nah, you meant it was because of Biden, surely, and maybe Obama too, right?
Our government is just trying to help the people of America by tackling the obesity crisis with this all natural ozempic alternative!
/s (if it wasn’t obvious)
You slash s, but real talk. Make sure your food is up to temperature. A lot of people are about to find out why past us made the FDA in the first place.
I was looking at the costs of raising a child the other day and I don’t know how anyone does it. My job pays garbage with trash health insurance.
I’m just so mad at the management class with their high pay and not doing any actual work. My boss seems fine - I think he knows this is bullshit and goes a little out of his way to make it easier for me. But everyone above him? If I saw them drowning I’d have to think a long time before throwing a life vest.
I could totally afford a child, but if I chose to do that, I wouldn’t be able to afford anything else fun, so I haven’t chosen to. By all means, I make a pretty decent living and would’ve probably been in the upper middle class 20 years ago.
I was in the top 2% financially in my country before I walked away from that life (the work I did was lucrative, but a brutal grind)
At no point did money feature into the equation
I just really don’t like kids.
They don’t want to make it more affordable to have children so that women are forced to drop out of the workforce to stay home and raise them.
But they also don’t pay enough to be able to raise a kid without both parents working too, I take it?
Keep them poor and distracted.
Trying to find a moment in history when the long term outlook was rosey enough to say “Now is the right time to have kids”, and I can’t.
Part of having kids is the struggle of supporting other people. Part of the joy of having kids is positioning a future person to do things you lacked the opportunity to do, yourself.
If humanity can solve climate change, we still will not be the generation that lives to see it. We’ll pass the torch and then our children will pass the torch and then our grandchildren will know if we were successfully.
My bloodline survived oppression, war, famines, subjugation, violent storms and many more things. I fully understand and agree that people who don’t want kids and can’t see themselves emotionally/financially supporting them should not have kids. It should be a choice and should be a passionate one and there’s nothing wrong with deciding it’s not for you. This doomsaying crap is an awful excuse though. Other than the highest form of elite in a society, there has never been a guarantee for safety or security.
Is it scary that we will be experiencing climate change and the associated catastrophic events associated with it? Yes, it’s terrifying. It’s terrifying that there will be death there will be suffering and there will be violence. It sucks that while we’ve gone through big culture shifts as a species we haven’t united over this or are making big shifts to fix it. We CAN though. We HAVE united under struggle historically. We DO survive the impossible and the terrible and while I can’t say with any absolute that most people are great, there are great people and have been those who have made a positive change.
Absurd argument
maybe pay us more
They refuse to pay us more
They don’t pay us enough to live
