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No parking
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Single-stair buildings
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A street width most fire departments wouldn’t allow
I’m super anti-car. But the other 2 points are legitimate issues. Y a kitchen caught for you need multiple paths out and the ability for a crew to get to the scene. This street would still be charming of it was a few feet wider and wasn’t a death trap lol
Europe usually has a more crews smaller units approach. For a built up area like this there would be be planing for how to stage and prepare for a fire. Knowing where the access points are and finding a way in. Most of the buildings in these areas may also have a service entrance for delivery and rubbish. being stone would limit the burnable material. The building also probably caught fire a few times already and survived.
I’m not worried about the building surviving lol. The danger is to the people with only 1 exit that could be blocked by fire. And suppose someone had a medical emergency here, getting help would take longer. I’m just saying, that taking safety into account isn’t the issue. Cars are the issue.
Now all I can think of is a cop car just smashing through that alley, like every chase scene in the 80’s
Chasing a brown kid that was smoking a joint probably. The kid was later filled with 38 bulltes. The police officer is a hero
That cop feared for his life! So brave!
Thank you for your service.
TBF the street width probably wouldn’t be legal in Spain, either, if it was built this century. Europe doesn’t build like this anymore.
How does no parking make this spot charming? What does single-stair mean? Single as opposed to what?
I assume OP means as opposed to having a ramp or elevator.
The Americans with Disabilities Act is something I consider a major achievement of this country, and I don’t even have a physical disability like that.
It’s a level of compassion for fellow humans that seems like it will never happen again and is likely to be destroyed by the supreme court any day now.
Ramps benefit all of us, they’re not just for wheelchairs. Have you ever had to push around a moving cart or a stroller? You don’t need a disability, you’ll still really appreciate the ramps!
Strong agree. Also, at any moment a person who is otherwise mobile can twist an ankle wrong and end up with a cast temporarily for example. These things are for Everyone’s potential benefit.
A lot of those buildings have those small wheelchair lifts on the stairs. Single stair probably refers to a single stair well.
If the US is like Canada then its probably referring to the fire code that requires there be two stairwells for anything above a few floors tall. It’s an outdated code that is the reason three bedroom apartments are rare
This is a good video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdwXQb7CfM
more than one set of stairs, or at least one plus fire escapes, for emergency egress.
Interesting, single-stair is still the standard for most residential buildings in Europe. I assume it’s just not that much of an issue if the building is only 5 stories high.
Wouldn’t be nearly as charming if there were cars parked right next to your table, with those cars presumably coming and going all the time.
I suspect there is parking just around the corner somewhere and that’s fine.
Fuck you can’t be serious
How does no parking make this spot charming?
Because if there were parking there, it would not be charming.
How does one take a pleasant photo like this and use it to bitch about cars?
There’s plenty of reasons to bitch about cars. And, the Internet is full of photos of the shitty environment created by cars. This photo doesn’t have to be one of them and it’s fucking stretch to make it about cars.
Because I want us to build things like this again. I live in Canada and we don’t have even remotely as many old town areas that offer people-scale streets. I don’t know where you live but maybe you live in a much older city so scenes like this are commonplace but they’re non existent here outside of maybe Québec City.
Obviously this community is (with all due respect) an echo chamber so it’s preaching to the choir but I still think it’s important to be reminded of what we could have.
This particular picture presents multiple safety and accessibility issues. Quaint, car free boardwalks are great, but this is too narrow for many reasons.
Did you even read OP’s supercomment?
It’s not even as though cars are the fundamental issue here as to why this sort of space doesn’t exist in the usa
ACKSHUALLY it is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KOjKVA3qF_0
How does one take a pleasant photo like this and use it to bitch about people bitching about cars?
Where do I park my car?
seven blocks away in a parking garage if you have a car, otherwise your bicycle can be parked 20ish meters away.
That’s the neat part, you don’t
in the ocean
No no. The whole car. Not just the battery
Ya looks super safe boss! I’m sure everyone would be able to do a nice orderly exit in an emergency!
Don’t they have that type of thing inside shopping centres and places like that?
The only problem is that modern developmennts will make places like this mostly INSIDE shopping centres , university campuses, or stadiums or places like that.
Very rarely do they ever make modern places like this OUTSIDE where you can see people walking by enjoying the day, meeting and greeting strangers who have common interests, or see your nervous neice waiting for their first date , or just taking in the public atmosphere and ‘vibe’ while outside.
Most infrasructure created these days in north america and Europe , and even in place in the Global South that have started taking in a large amount of vehicles and cars in thhe previous decade like Vietnam, is more so car-centric rather than people-centric. The two newest public seating areas Ive seen built in the city Im in was built in a way so that you could see the beautiful sights… of the highway right next to it… 😐
Looks like a nightmare for many wheelchair users.
Well they don’t have that many to be such a problem. Nobody shoots each other and they don’t send any young adult to be blown up in middle east for oil. Also easier to keep fit and healthy as food is not engineered to be addictive
Do you think that the only people that use wheelchairs got there because of gun violence, bombs in the middle east, and health issues related to less healthy food?
Superior Euro purebloods can regenerate their limbs like sea stars.
There’s one Canadian on record who can do the same.
That must be why their livers can work longer.
This is ableism
Alot of Europe whent with America during Afghanistan. Fewer for iraq. Most of the problems in the middle east trace back to disisions made in France or Britain.
Yes and everyone in a wheelchair got their due to war. Obviously there’s no other medical reason to be in a wheelchair other than participating in a war.
I was only commenting on the part mentiond about Americans and forever wars. The Europeans have had wars for just as long. That’s not a reason America has better accessibility.
One of the few things I, as an American, feel comfortable making fun of Europeans about is how inadequate their ada accessibility is.
ADA in Europe lol May I suggest checking what that first A stands for….
Lol my bad. Point still stands, Europe has shit accessibility.
There’s another discussion on lemmy about why right wing populism is rising. It seems like a lot of of you guys clung to those Nazi views about the infirm and disabled. Just sayin’
about why right wing populism is rising
Because the center bothers only to block the left, and therefore the quite valid anger at the capitalism status quo gets pushed to the right.
Also, most European right wing parties are to the left of the US Democrats, so comparing them is pretty silly.
Ya you guys just invented fascism and Nazism, we inspired it with Jim Crow, which was inspired by your colonies, we went on to work on our own stupid version which is on full display right now. Let’s see how Germany does with the AfD shall we??
“you guys”?
Buddy, I’m an American who emigrated to Spain.
Nazism took major points from the American south - there’s a decent argument that the Redeemer governments that put in Jim Crow were the first proto-fascists.
Let’s see how Germany does with the AfD shall we
Yeah, Germany is once again trying to imitate the US. Its automobile sector became rapidly outdated by missing the boat on EVs . . . and so now they’re trying to push a defense sector to substitute. Pretty USA in the 1980s actually.
The EU has some major things to fix - and German defacto leadership is one of the first, along with removing the German reflexive bootlicking of the US.
Right. For a group of people who spend a lot of time developing digital rights; you guys could probably use a bit more disability rights ya know?? Maybe that’s why there’s so many psychopaths in the comments that can’t understand how people end up in wheelchairs or disabled? I’m certainly noticing a theme here in the comments.
Bruh. You just called put a disabled person for other people’s comments/actions. I know you have some brain in there, since you’re on Lemmy, but come on.
Edit: Oh my god. You double commented too. Wth
Huh?? Are you talking about the thread where the guy said the Iraq war was how people ended up in wheel chairs?? Was I the disabled person I called out?? Not the double comment oh nooo! People have ADHD too! Yes, I am mentally and physically disabled. Sometimes people who are not Neurotypical we communicate differently than people who are. I’m pretty sure you’re having a reading comprehension problem as well but if you’d like to point out what I said, I’d be happy to respond to it.
Trying to enforce weird norms like no double comment… its an international platform, people are going to communicate in all types of ways. Some really odd chronically online behavior. Ima triple comment if i still got something to say that popped into my head after i post. Have you never heard or talked to someone with ADHD?? Or anyone disabled at all. Im waiting to hear what you thought i said… and im already guessing you dont understand sarcasm due to being a perpetual internet being.
I don’t downvote just because of hot takes, but I do double down. The triple comment is crazy. You do you.
Also, was busy. I’d love to be perpetually online, but can’t.
As for missing sarcasm. I was trying to call the first guy disabled to tie into a different joke payoff, but that chance has been murdered in cold blood from being taken too seriously.
ADA= Americans with Disabilities Act? So you expect other countries to obey your legislation? There’s a surprise.
I’d expect them to care about disabled people… Which they don’t.
Well, they do have health care in Europe, which is a nice form of care.
Na I honestly expected yall to have an older and better version of the law. All you got is smugness tho.
Here’s some nuance for you:
EU: https://www.auoow.com/disability-laws-differ-across-europe/
Modern European buildings are handicapped accessible. What they don’t do is tear down old buildings for the benefit of a few disabled people. Or make it so expensive to reuse old buildings that they fall into neglect. Before you go there, I do have a disability but not a mobility problem.
At least in Spain, all the public buildings are retrofitted with removable wheelchair ramps and wheelchair lifts. They also install handrails and other accessibility measures, like tactile flooring/paving for the blind, non slip surfaces or induction loops.
Private buildings are different, because the owner (or owners) have to decide to implement those measures themselves, unless they’re offering a public service in that building. Most don’t implement those accessibility measures because they don’t need them, but residential buildings often install them when someone who needs them lives in the building.
Private buildings are different, because the owner (or owners) have to decide to implement those measures themselves,
Yes, and that’s problematic. All businesses should be as accessible as possible
even the US doesn’t go that far
It quite literally does
American living in Spain - it’s probably more accessible than NYC, but that’s the least accessible in the US.
What the fuck?
That’s fucking crazy bro. Please tell me you’re a teenager. This is definitely the world view of someone who is probably peeking in physical shape right now. It’s a long road down life buddy get ready for those knees to hurt.
(Peaking, possibly)
Correct. I’m a disable slob so you get what autocorrect gives ya! English was never my best subject in school, however I personally ignore that and blame apple.
They have plenty of wheelchair users, you just don’t see them because it’s so inaccessible they’re stuck at home.
Most parts of the city are likely pretty accessible, though
It’s hard to make a neighborhood accessible if the whole thing was built 500 years ago so I assume tons of places in southern Europe will have problems. Finland, on the other hand, is very accessible and last I checked, still in Europe.
Of course, and it’s fantastic to keep for its historical value. But OP is talking about developing modern spaces like this. Like 500 years of human activity didn’t create a few safety concerns along the way
THIS holy shit this
Every person eventually becomes disabled or dead. You are no exception no matter how good your health is right now.
Go to any image search and you will find dozens of pictures from Melbourne, Australia of outdoor dining in car free laneways. Generally much better pedestrial access. Imagine trying to get through that place in a wheelchair. There is a market for car free spaces anywhere in the world, even in car cultures like Australia. Given an opportunity people vote with their wallets on these things.
The fire safety is bad but maybe the brick buildings look bad?
If you really want to you can too figure out a way to burn bricks LOL.
Everything burns at some temperature.
Doesn’t matter much when it’s a kitchen because generally in a kitchen the fire isn’t starting in the walls. Also these old buildings are far more likely to have really janky exhaust systems just because it’s way harder to run a proper welded steel exhaust duct through existing construction. If you get a fire in a greasy nonwelded exhaust duct then it isn’t going to matter much what the building walls are made of.
I have heard that US buildings are more flammable than those in Europe. Not sure about these ones in particular.
Wood frame is more flamable than brick but generally if there is a big enough fire that the actual frame of the house catches fire then the fire would be big enough to fuck up any masonry building as well. The materials of furniture and other possessions are far more important when it comes to fire prevention. Tipping over a candle isn’t going to ignite the frame of the house but it could ignite your couch depending on material.
Makes sense. Stick frame and drywall is all wood
Looks like someone already corrected you on the drywall part but just for further clarification, drywall is literally used as a fireproofing material. In hot work rooms on commercial properties building codes actually call for 2 layers of drywall specifically for fire prevention. You can take an oxyacetylene torch to drywall and it won’t do much more than smolder and smoke a bit. It is intensely fire resistant. A fire needs to be pretty damn big already to make it through the drywall to the wood frame of the building. Modern wood frame construction is pretty good as far as fireproofing goes. The big issue the US has are the houses built during the post WWII housing boom that use shit like masonite or wood paneling for wall coverings and then fill the walls with shit like tar paper and shredded rags for insulationbwhile also having shody wiring.
Drywall isn’t wood, it’s also called “sheet rock” for a reason. It’s mostly gypsum and it does a pretty good job slowing the spread of fire.
huh… TIL. Thanks
Oh dang. Okay.
This is just grandfathered in. There are just as many shit regulations in europe if not more.
There are many bad regulations in Europe too, but unlike in the US it is actually legal and possible in most places in Europe to build pedestrian friendly transit oriented neighbourhoods. In most places in the US it is not. The two are not the same.
European here. A lot of places are being turned more pedestrian or pedestrian friendly.
The boomers hate it. I love it.
It’s not illegal to build pedestrian friendly places in the USA. Just because it’s rare doesn’t mean it’s illegal.
In most places in the US it is indeed forbidden to build pedestrian friendly places. The reasons are multifold, zoning rules, local regulations, etc.
I’m pretty sure it’s the stone buildings and street that make it charming. Three feet (one metre) of additional width would not remove the charm and emergency vehicles do not need access to pedestrian malls in the US.
The only thing stopping an American developer from building this in the US is cost. We don’t depreciate buildings over centuries, and neither do the Spanish. New developments in Spain look nothing like this.
It would be illegal to build anywhere in Europe today as well. This is medieval street. Modern stuff isn’t built to be cozy. Even 19th century avenues were planned in a way that you could charge with calvary at the unruly masses.
That said, modern developments often do have nice outdoors as well but its usually more in the open.
But unlike in America, it still wouldn’t be legal to drive through and run those people over.
although i have never been to the usa, i am fairly certain that, despite its flaws, it is illegal to run people over with a car over there. Probably anywhere on earth
Since the BLM protests some states have made laws that allow motorists to run over anyone if they are not legally crossing and are blocking them (i.e. protestors but really it means anyone in a road or street who might be inconveniencing a right-winger in their car).
Have you ever heard of castle doctrine? It’s like that but with a car instead of a gun.
Maybe a bit earlier than blm ….
Depends on your income. Enough wealthy people get away with vehicular manslaughter with a few months of domiciliary arrest, that it is essentially a meme in the US legal system. While a poor person of color would get shot at on the spot by police for knocking on the wrong door. Land of the free…etc.
It’s still a crime, just one that can have the punishment reduced to a fine
If it can be paid with a fine. Then it is not a crime, it is a paid event with a premium entry fee.
It’s still a crime, and usually has jail time
If a fine is the difference between walking free and jail time, then the real crime is poverty.
Yeah even without the BLM Death Race laws, hardly anyone ever goes to jail for killing/injuring people with their car. Hell even people who kill others while under the influence very often won’t get charged with vehicular homicide.
Remember that little “Afluenza” twerp from about 10 years ago who got a slap on the wrist after killing a bunch of people while driving drunk? The judge ruled “He’s rich and therefore it’s in his nature (“Afluenza”) to do stuff like that, so he can’t be held criminally liable.”
So instead of being blocked by cars the entire street is blocked by chairs and you have to squeeze by people eating if you want to go through. Sucks either way.
Lol I’d still recommend trying it sometime… you might realize it’s still better than squeezing by cars 🙃
Not for someone in a wheel chair. Especially in emergency. Surprise!!! we designed cities for all types of people!! we designed them with accessibility and safety in mind!
