First things first, I don’t doubt it is a bad thing, considering who supports it and who doesn’t.
But my question is what exactly is the issue and what is the current and proposed voting process when it comes to IDs?
Here in my EU country, you have to show some version of a government ID, be it an ID card, drivers license or passport. And we don’t have to pre-register to vote.
Related question: why not put the threshold in the future? Like starting in 2036 you will need an ID to vote, you have 10 years to get one.
Because it’s not a problem, and implementing voter id comes with additional costs.
The current setup works and is cheap.
Don’t you have to register to vote and a bunch of other things? Like they kick you and you have to re-register and some other shenanigans. Sounds like a mess.
Republicans are doing most of the kicking right now. Registration is fairly simple though. On the web you provide an ID and some info. You can call or pick up a registration form from any government building.
It varies from each state though, which is appropriate considering the constitution says states handle voting.
Wait, you provide… An ID??? Now I understand less.
Adding to that, also make it easier to get one.
It benefits people with money to make it difficult and expensive. The people who don’t have IDs are likely poor and depend on money from jobs that don’t allow them to just take off work to go to the court house.
If the US were civilized, you’d just get a free government ID as a part of, idk, being a citizen.
If the US were civilized, you’d just get a free government ID as a part of, idk, being a citizen.
Compared with what? Which other countries give you a free ID?
The guy in here today talking about Germany says you get one as I recall. I know they said it costs money to update or replace, but I think the first one was free.
https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/02-passportsandidcards/passport-fees-906634
Identity Card 24 years and older valid for 10 years 89.00 So that’s one.
Maybe Estonia too, as it seems to have its shit together. But that’s two out of 200.
Are we demanding USA match up to the leader in every respect? Looking at debt, education, crime, freedom, and a whole lot more, I’d accept if you decided that measuring up isn’t America’s strong suit right now.
What “voter ID law?” It would be unconstitutional to legislate that at a federal level and while I don’t doubt Republicans would love to try it, I’ve not heard about that.
As with most laws in America, voting related laws are passed at the state level. There have been probably hundreds of bills like this over the past 20 years so you’d need to be more specific for anyone to address the “law” singular as you put it.
https://www.vote.org/save-act/
Every American, including people who have been registered for decades, would need to appear in person at an election office with qualifying documents. Online voter registration, which 42 states currently rely on, would be upended or eliminated. Mail registration would end entirely. Voter registration drives would become functionally ineffective, …
…
For most Americans, qualifying requires one of the following: a valid U.S. passport or passport card, a certified birth certificate paired with a photo ID, a naturalization certificate, or a Consular Report of Birth Abroad. If your name does not match across those documents, additional paperwork such as a marriage certificate would also be required.
Thank you. That is atrocious/unconstitutional and I may have forgotten about it… The page says
Where things stand right now.
As of March 18, 2026, the Senate is actively debating the SAVE America Act. The bill needs 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.
So is this what OP is talking about? Has there been recent movement on this which is not reflected on that page?
I think a lot of it comes down to classism. While it’s probably unimaginable in a developed nation, it’s entirely possible for underprivileged citizens in the United States not to have a government issued ID. The hurdles to get one are also disproportionately greater for those individuals.
It is largely seen as a form of voter suppression. And considering our history of weaponized poll and literacy testing, that’s understandable.
Aren’t you required to have a government ID?
Here (.nl) you need an ID to access so many services that it’s basically impossible to function without one.
Want to rent or buy/sell a house -> ID
Want to go do a doctor -> ID
Mobile phone contract -> ID
Open a bank account -> ID
Get a loan -> ID
Take a driving exam -> ID
Collect a package from a parcel point -> ID
Buy alcohol, tobacco or weed -> ID
Hell, I had to show ID when getting food delivery because apparently there was a tiny amount of alcohol in the desert.
How does US society even function when people don’t have a government ID?
Aren’t you required to have a government ID?
You are not required to possess one, no. Someone can exist in the US as a dependent and never need to purchase anything ever because someone else in the household takes care of the finances.
No health insurance, never need to go to a doctor or hospital?
What if you’re ever asked for ID by the police?
Over here, technically you aren’t required to have or carry ID. You just have to be able to show ID when asked by law enforcement. Meaning they can’t simply stop people and ask for ID and fine you when you can’t show one, so not carrying an ID in itself isn’t an offense. It’s just that when they have a valid reason to ask for you ID and you can’t show one, you get a fine for not being able to show ID.
It’s state dependent about requirement to identify yourself go police, but i dont believe its required in any state to carry an ID on one’s person.
If you have to show ID to law enforcement or be fined then you are required to carry ID. Here you have to identify yourself, but you are not obligated to carry ID on you at all times. So if someone walks to a store and pays cash they don’t need to have an ID and cannot be fined or punished for not having one.
It is required for something like driving as it involves a license and carrying it with you when driving is a requirement.
As far as voting goes, in rural areas, especially where everyone knows each other, nobody needs ID because everyone knows Billy was born in the local hospital and lives with his uncle and he was added to the voter role decades ago so when he goes to vote he signed his checken scratch signature and Glenda gave him his ballot to vote. Prior to ID requirements you just verbally said who you were and signed so you couldn’t vote twice and this wasn’t an issue ever.
The whole registration thing is so they knew who is voting where to give them the right ballot for local officials and to keep someone from voting twice and study after study showed it was not a significant problem. Requiring ID to vote only has downsides and is intended to be voter suppression in the US through cost an other obstacles.
Ideally, yes, this is how it should work. But some of our citizens do not have access to nearly all of these social resources.
Even homeless people are required to have ID here.
Are they provided for free?
We have to pay for ID in the US, and there is often a requirement for an address on paperwork so combined that makes it very difficult for the homeless to acquire an ID. For example, my state mails IDs which I’m pretty sure it intended to make it difficult for homeless people to get one.
Are they provided for free?
No.
We have to pay for ID in the US
Same here. An ID card is €80 and a passport is €88. Both are valid for 10 years.
and there is often a requirement for an address on paperwork
Here you simply go to the municipality where you are a registered resident and request it there. They already have your address on file since you are required to register your place of residence.
that makes it very difficult for the homeless to acquire an ID.
I just looked it up how this works here. If you aren’t a registered resident of any municipality there’s a couple of them that handle ID applications for people without residence. You have to prove your nationality but that can be as simple as showing a bank statement proving that you receive dutch social security (homeless people receive monthly social security payments)
my state mails IDs which I’m pretty sure it intended to make it difficult for homeless people to get one.
Then how do they make sure it ends up with the person who requested it? Here you have to pick them up in person specifically so they can make sure that the person on the ID is the same person who is receiving it.
That’s super expensive. Last time I got an ID (for my kids) it was something like 6 eur.
Thats the Netherlands for you. Neoliberal policies for at least a decade does that. And now we have a crack resurgence and teflon man promoted to head of nato.
This is for 18+. For people under 18 it’s about half that IIRC.
You are thinking logically and not ‘how do we punish homeless people and minorities for existing’. The US system doesn’t make logical sense for a functional society that doesn’t intentionally disenfranchise a large portion of the population
Yes. Very nice.
Besides what other people have said, voting is a right. Everything you listed is not.
Bro really bit condescending insinuating that “certain” groups are too dumb to get an id. Ffs u need an id to get a job and pay taces, buy alcohol, buy cigarettes, shovel snow in NY.
I think you misunderstood. I didn’t say anyone was too dumb. It’s a question of accessibility, time, and resources. Also, what do you mean by “certain” groups?
What really gets to me is that even if, even if there were a few dozen or even a few hundred scattered votes that shouldn’t count…no presidential election is decided by a such a small number of invalid votes. There’s so much effort by the GOP to suggest fraud will cost them the election when its just not true. The amount of effort someone would have to go through just to get a 2nd vote is monumental, and for what 1 extra vote among 10s of thousands… And the risk of getting g caught is high and penalties are severe. Vote fraud is not worth the risk.
The problem is primarily that it falsely validates a fascist conspiracy theory which is being weaponized to dismantle western democracy. That’s really most of it.
If it validates a conspiracy theory then has it not proven the conspiracy theory to be more likly. When one is doing science and one discovered evidence that supports a conclusion you cannot dismiss the evidence or change you methodology to avoid the evidence simply because you don’t like what the evidence implies. Follow the science mate don’t change ur methodology cos the science disagrees with ur preconceived notions.
Voter fraud is incredibly rare in the US. The conspiracy theory is that elections are horrifically insecure and the result of every vote is fraudulent.
The proposed voter id laws take that as an inroad to erode the right to vote for all citizens.
How can u know its rare worhout checking id? I’m not a us citizen whats stopping me from walking into a polling booth and voting? It seems pretty insecure to me. One cannot simply assert an assumption and proclaim it to be true.
I’m with you mate, as an European and after reading some of the comments I still have no clue how they monitor voting without any ID… I assume everyone has to pre-register but how do they do that without an ID? Birth certificates? Also, I’m antifascist which doesn’t mean I don’t believe in organizing society in an efficient way to minimize the chance of cheating to a minimum. In an ideal world there would be no borders and we could vote wherever we live but as I understand the US seems to have a vulnerable system and fascists are using it as an argument in favour of their current agenda… It’s likely a complex issue to solve due to other complex issues that have been left unsolved throughout the years but not admiting it to “own the fascist Republicans” is not the way to approach it imo.
Registering to vote is done by proving citizenship and residency, this is the step at which documents are checked. Doing it again at the polls duplicates work for little benefit.
The US system isn’t vulnerable. They meaningfully swing an election, it would require massed coordination between millions of people spread across hundreds of precincts. Each one would need to know that the person they are pretending to be has not voted and is not planning to vote after them - multiple voters for a single voter registration begins an investigation.
Voter rolls are purged frequently, so inactive registrations are not widely available for this kind of fraud. The rules vary by state, but generally if the voter does not cast a ballot for 2 consecutive elections they are deactivated.
Voters can only vote at their assigned polling places, meaning any large scale fraud must be distributed, increasing the number of people who must be involved and decreasing the likelihood it goes undetected.
So the argument against voter id is that some people can’t get the id they need due to financial reasons or whatever and thus this is disenfranchising minorities. But if you need that very same id to register to vote then your entire argument falls flat on its face.
Ahh this asshole again. Can you confine the bad faith arguments to one thread?
The documents used to prove residency and citizenship aren’t exclusively photo IDs. Voter ID laws of recent conversation have all required photo IDs.
Different IDs. Not ‘the very same’ IDs.
Which you would know if you cared about any of this beyond mud slinging and muddying the waters.
In 25 years of records, there have been fewer than 1500 convictions for voter fraud. In Arizona, there were 36 proven cases against 42 million ballots cast.
What’s stopping me from walking into a polling booth and voting?
The wonderful thing here is you aren’t American, so you convince yourself far more thoroughly than my words ever could. The election is Tuesday, come over and try to vote.
U didn’t address my point. Without id how can u know if the fraud isnt happening. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absence. Its not like they send an FBI agent to go id a couple hundred people to do a proper statistical analysis. They caught the dumbest most obvious worst offenders that’s it.
Ur stats are the absolute lowest bound they are not a statistical sample. Ur attempt at purposefully implicating that it is such when it is not is very telling of your priorities here.
A sarcastic reply does not count as good faith argument do better.
Google it my friend. It’s very easy to detect fraud when you’re working with big numbers.
In some cases yes in others no. Financial fraud large numbers makes it east to detect via per digit variations. Voting doesn’t follow this.
This isn’t an argument it’s an appeal to irrelevance.
I don’t have to do better - you’ve already made up your mind and are just here to muddy the waters by “just asking questions” you could easily lookup yourself.
Have a blessed day.
I’m not here to ask questions or muddy waters. I’m here to present a logical factual argument in favour of achieving my goals. Your failure to answer or engage in good faith is my endgame as it proves that your argument cannot hold up to basic logical strutiny. Your here to win I’m here to discover the truth by presenting what I believe is the best hypothesis. Your failure to disprove my hypothesis or provide evidence in favour of your own is either a failure or ur capability as a good faith rational actor or failure of your hypothesis.
It is very, very simple:
It is mean to make it harder for anyone that is non-white to vote.
We can parse it finer, but basically white people in aggregate are more likely to have the correct ID, time and ability to vote. Republicans know that this advantages them and so they work really hard to make it harder for anyone but the “right people” to vote.
Their entire platform is basically coded racism, and has been for a very long time. Like any other cult, they justify every transgression by appealing to the “greater cause,” which is not religious in their case but the great promise of elevating those in the “in” group.
also mostly against AA areas where they make a substantial portion of republican states. i think depending other POC they suffer slightly less problems , but AA has the most hurdles of any group.
We don’t have a free national ID, even state IDs cost money. There should be no money involved in the right to vote.
Canada. No free national ID card. About $15 a year, renewed every 5 years. Your health ID and driver ID can be separate or same-card, and can be used to fulfill “government-issued picture ID” required to vote; otherwise it’s a passport, probably, which is a little more.
Who are the US modeling themselves after when they demand a free ID card before it is required to verify identity for voting?
It’s not a model, it’s a guaranteed constitutional right that has been upheld a LOT of times in the supreme court over the last two centuries. You cannot have a poll tax, period. In any possible way, shape or form. It cannot cost a single cent to vote. Ever. Under any possible circumstances, without a significant constitutional amendment. It cannot be changed via law, and any laws passed that do require ID but do not make IDs free are undeniably unconstitutional based on 200 years of precedent.
So we find ourselves trapped in a loop, because voting is an enshrined right.
It’s also… just not needed. The only way you can register to vote is by proving your identity and citizenship. Using the free process that exists in every state and most US territories (not for federal elections in the territories unless they overlap with a state).
We get it Canada sucks you don’t got to convince us. Lick that boot and pay that poll tax son.
We aren’t Canada. Voting is a right and it shouldn’t be tied to any fee.
Having government ID of any kind (in fact, any documentation of any kind) isn’t strictly required to vote in Canada.
Free id and voting are technically distinct concerns.
Every single state with voter id requirements either gives free voter id cards or waives fees on existing id forms if u state if for the purposes of voting.
Interestingly I come from a nation where voting is not a right but a duty. Yes in Australia you get fined if you don’t vote. U can purposely spoil ur ballot that’s fine and that goes in the statistics but u still need to show up and purposely do that.
Same thing in EU. At least over here in Finland. But, the passport is paid for by the social service if you are on their money.
I’m pretty sure ours doesn’t work like that. But also, a passport isn’t as common to have here.
Yeah, but here nothing works without having an ID or a passport, so everyone must have access to it.
That’s how the US works as well, you need ID for everything, it’s just lies and propaganda that claims undocumented people are using any services, the reality is literally the opposite.
Here’s my perspective from other countries (I’ve lived and voted in two). The America right will go absolutely apeshit if you criticize them from the point of view of a other country by saying “you have voter ID laws, you just want the USA to fail by allowing illegals to vote”
The thing is, for example Canada or the UK (both where I never once needed to show ID to vote) have voter ID laws in case you need to produce ID, but you probably don’t. Because for most people you are registered to vote, you pay taxes, the government knows where you live and who lives there.
I turn up at a polling place with my name and address and they hand me my ballot. If another me showed up earlier, or later it’d be immediately apparent there was a problem when I tried to vote again.
If you aren’t in this position, that’s where vote ID comes in. What the right wingers in America never say is that almost any kind of ID at all that has your name on it is acceptable. There are hundreds of acceptable forms of ID and it’s as broad as possible.
Also if all that fails and you literally have nothing to show for it, you can literally ask someone who is registered to just vouch for you. Yep, that’s bill, he’s a citizen as far as I know. Now bill gets a ballot.
We’re allowed to have voter ID laws because we’re using them to make sure absolutely everyone is able to vote while still ensuring secure elections. We’re not using them to purge voter rolls and make sure you need an obscure specific government ID card in order to have the “privilege” (you see cause it’s not a privilege, it’s a right)
one thing you forgot to mention is that the american right wants these new voter IDs to implement a poll tax. they pretend like they aren’t pushing that when someone explains to them why voter IDs are racist and classist, but the entire point is to disenfranchise non-white and poor voters with a poll tax. it fits right in line with red areas removing polling places from e.g. majority black neighborhoods.
I can tell you the issue, but it won’t be what everyone else is telling you the issue is.
The real issue is that there are votes at all. You cannot be born into a system of consent, so you cannot be born into a system where by default, some huge organization can steal your income and use it to produce things you never asked for, probably mostly don’t use, and even blatantly don’t want.
You shouldn’t need an ID to do anything that isn’t something you’ve not already consented to, and the only people you would ever need to consent to would be those who own property you wish to utilize.
There’s a reason why nobody else is saying that.
Before you can vote, you have to “register” to vote. When you do this, you need to prove you’re a U.S. citizen. Usually providing a birth certificate, or passport, military id, idk everything.
My understanding was that the name you were registering to vote with had to match the document you were using. But if you got married then often times the women would have a different last name and now it doesn’t match your birth certificate. Normally you’d just have to prove you got married too but this new law would say no, you have to have the exact name or you can’t vote.
Since women typically take the man’s last name, it would effectively mean any married women registering to vote would not be allowed. And since the bill is worded confusingly on purpose, many women would not even realize this until they went to register to vote, and told they couldn’t because of their new last name.
Additionally, minorities and underprivileged folks don’t often have the means to get drivers licenses. How do you take the exam if you don’t have a car to practice? Or can’t get the time off work to go to the DMV for a government ID? It might not be the stated intent of the law, but the few places it’s been implemented have seen drastic reductions in the incident rate of black and Latino voters.
It’s not effectively any woman, it’s a women who is using their birth certificate for ID. Which is effectively 1/3 of the options so it’s significant but not “effectively mean any married woman can’t vote.”
They can use a passport, state issued ID such as Drivers license or ID card or a birth certificate. The new drivers licenses and IDs that are “real IDs” which is required now are also proof of citizenship.
That’s fair, I should’ve been more exact with my words. If someone is poor and living in a large metro area they might not even have a drivers license so birth certificate would be their best option. And large metro areas typically swing democrat so it would disproportionately hurts dems more than cons.
Not an llm but wanted to acknowledge good criticism.
It’s a whole can of worms. For the golden standards of what counts as an ID, getting a State ID, Driver’s License, or Passport can be hard. My first time getting a passport was an over 6 month long journey and was hell, getting my Driver’s License was a long journey and cost me like $30, and then what counts as a good form of ID?
Back when I lived in Texas, my license for Concealed Carry worked as a valid form of ID but my Student ID when I was attending Uni there wasn’t. So why is a CCL a valid form of ID but a student ID isn’t?
My opposition to Voter ID is because of this, it would be handled on a state level and not the federal level. This would disenfranchise a lot of people who might not be able to get a valid form of ID.
DMVs are slow and in many areas hard to get to. I know people who live like 100 miles away from any and that is where you get your either State ID or Driver’s License. How are they supposed to prove who they are?
I would support a Voter ID law if and only if we had a free and easily accesible way to get a form of identification.
paspport you have to make appt which can be weeks or months out to schedule your picture, and the process too and only at specific USPS offices. and apparently red states never worried about having to get passports/birth certificates, because theier voting is not disenfranchised there. when the republicans reccommended last year, they freaked out as red areas are unlikely to have post offices that afford passport services.
Not a single thing you say changes my opinion.
I’m pretty sure they are agreeing with your point.
Maybe. I’m not literate.
Short answer: The USA has no national ID.
Long answer: instead we have a patchwork of more than 50 different regional IDs (between states, territories, etc.), alongside a half-dozen ill-suited federal IDs, and numerous public and private institutional IDs (like university IDs or Costco cards).
For the most part, all of these cost money. Due to inconsistent systems and sometimes unclear requirements, the people who are most likely to be disenfranchised are also the most vulnerable. Most state IDs require proof of residence like a utility bill, which can be impossible if you are homeless or off-grid. If you are disabled, you may not qualify for a driver’s license (the most common state ID). If you are trans (or a married woman), you may have paperwork with conflicting legal names.
If you are reasonably well-off, on the other hand, you can afford to pay a private company to facilitate your passport application. The US passport is basically the gold standard of national ID, but fewer than half of Americans have one. It requires a certain amount of wealth to even need one, and the expense (money, time, etc) is not trivial.
Australia has no national id (except maybe passport but US has that as well). To register to vote you need to provide id. U dont show I’d at the polling booth but u sure as shit need to get ur name ticked off the big book of names for registered voters.
All forms of id in Australia cost money (except ur original birth certificate). If ur name has changed for any reason u need to go get a new id pay money for that pay for the name change update existing records with the proof of name change etc etc etc. I don’t sew how the US is any different?
Also in in Australian if u don’t vote they fine you. If you don’t register to vote and provide id in doing this u need id at the polling booth to register to vote and thus vote otherwise they fine you.
Australia has solved the problem by simply making voting a duty instead of a right. If u can’t get an id in Australia (can’t afford it or provide paperwork etc etc) you cannot fulfill ur legal duty to vote and get fined. Instead of lower the cost to get id and vote in the US (every single state with voter id laws already issues free voter id or waives fees on existing id if for purposes of voting) why not just raise the floor for not doing it and punish anyone who doesn’t do it.
To be fair, some US states do handle this better than others. Australia is about the population of California. So now just figure out how to coordinate that system with about 50 other Australias of various sizes and political leanings and you’ve got something.
CTRL+C and then CTRL+V.
Do that 50 times and ur all set. We have multiple different state and territory id’s. I’m sure that the fed has a digital system where u out in id and out pops a passport. I can assure you that the id checking for that system is automated and works for id from all states. It cant be that hard to copy paste that system for a voter registry.
US is a shithole country with no national ID system. People can’t easily identify themselves so what is extremely easy in European countries is very complicated in US.
There’s no national ID system in the UK and there shouldn’t be and people would riot if there were and we don’t need ID to vote. Almost everything you just said was factually incorrect. Please stop spreading ignorant misinformation.
So in your mind, the fact that UK doesn’t have national ID somehow makes my claim that US doesn’t have national ID factually incorrect. Curious. I think you don’t know the meaning of most of the words you used.
If the government wants to make everyone have an certain ID to vote, it has to be the governments responsibility to actively make sure everyone gets that ID without any cost or hassle. We know that’s not what will happen because the whole point of this is that the Republicans want to disenfranchise certain people.
The knockdown problem is that creating such an ID is a mere half a thought from “vere are your papers?” That’s basically a guaranteed outcome.
they also dont want everyone to vote, lower voter turn often results in having R wins, and or have the run of the mill coporate dem win too.
I will give you an example I overheard for five whole minutes while at the early voting place in my state:
We present our ID and it has to match with the record. You have to confirm your name and address by saying them out loud to the poll worker. Easy, right? Not for this one guy. I’m not sure what the specific issue was, but he could not follow the instructions. The poll worker asked for his name, which went ok. Then she asked for his address. He could not give the address. She asked again. He gave his name. She asked again. He couldn’t answer. She tried all variations of “where do you live?” She was willing to settle for him writing it down. She got to the point where she asked if he could read it off the ID card and he couldn’t. I have no idea what it took, but he was eventually given a ballot about the time I left.
There are many reasons he may not have been able to understand what to do or verbalize (some kind of disability, maybe a language barrier), and it was a bullshit step that depended entirely on who was behind the table and their level of patience. It could have easily disenfranchised him despite having an ID.
