They’ve always been religious but like in the sane way. Now that the divorce is happening, they’ve gone full Evangelist style batshit lecturing about how sinful everyone’s lives are. What can I do?
Encourage them to seek therapy instead?
Tried that, they don’t like therapists because they don’t think any therapist could ever “understand them like God can”
When I was looking at potential therapists, there were more than a few that slapped their Christian beliefs right there on their website and made it a point to state that they integrate their faith into their therapy, so there are probably options like that available to them.
I’ll look into this, thanks!
Agreed. And try to frame it as an addition to their church support not a replacement.
Move out, change you phone number. Check in on them occasionally, maintain your distance until you’re comfortable. Neither of you owe automatic allegiance unless you choose to.
It’s their parent’s, OP is worried about them and you’re telling OP to abandon them?
They’re not OPs responsibility, nor should OP feel obligated to be traumatized by them.
Most people join cults for community and structure and answers. There’s resources like https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult and https://www.peopleleavecults.com/post/help-cult-involved but I think the general idea is stay calm don’t crash out when talking about it, help them notice the manipulation techniques being used that are common to cults, asking questions that help undermine indoctrination and inspire more skepticism, and provide alternatives for the reasons they are wanting to join or stay in a cult without the manipulation and lies a cult requires to exist.
They’ve always been religious but like in the sane way.
They’re probably not in a cult if they’re still going to the previous Church. Likely a mental episode of somekind. If they got more involved with the Church that they were sane in, it might help.
- Divorce is a sin, so if they are trying to get hardcore religious and lecturing people, they need to handle their hypocrisy first.
- Get them more involved in their current religious organisation instead of the cults
Yes, divorce is often considered a sin. And…?
The great thing about Christianity is that sin is expected, anticipated and in some ways, even celebrated.
The forgiveness of sin is a foundational Christianity principle. IMHO, it’s also why that religions is so popular, especially evangelical Christianity.
Here’s the gist: Humans are evil beings, filled with sin, each and every one of us. You WILL end up sinning and at that point, you can ask forgiveness. If you are sincere, God will forgive you. YAY! The burden of guilt is now lifted and you can go about your day.
This is why Christians can do horrible things and then walk away unphased. They have a get of jail free card. When/if they start to feel guilty about their deeds, they just ask forgiveness.
I’m not being flippant - this process satisfies a deep psychological need that many people seem to have. They want to be a good, empathetic person - but they are greedy and selfish and jealous, just like the rest of us. The Christian religion taps into this common trait and leverages it to the absolute max.
Would depend on their organisation, some wacky organisations do exist. It’s best to get involved in a mainline established Church - heck, even conservative offshoots in the USA such as the ACNA or the PCA would still try and level their head more.
They’ve always been religious but like in the sane way.
They probably are/were attending a normal Church
Isn’t divorce only a sin for Catholics who don’t get it annulled? I thought divorce was more acceptable among Protestants
I’m assuming the more hardline you go, the harder the rules get.
My parents got divorced in 1981. My mom was raised Pentecostal (the Tammy Faye Bakker kind, not the long skirts kind), and she was intermittently ultra-involved in the church.
During one of those times (in the mid-'90s), she came to the understanding that she could never remarry because the only “biblically acceptable” reason for divorce was unfaithfulness. Since that wasn’t why she and my dad got divorced, dating anyone else would be considered adultery. So she swore off dating.
To be fair, I don’t know if this is something that came from the church or something she came up with on her own. I just remember thinking it was pretty ridiculous.
So whether it’s official church doctrine or not, I do think that the more extreme the church, the more extreme the rules are.
Divorce is a sin, so if they are trying to get hardcore religious and lecturing people, they need to handle their hypocrisy first.
Some religious cults will pressure divorced people to remarry their original spouse, regardless of the reason for the divorce.
One of my core values is that people get to decide for themselves what to believe. And it sounds a whole lot like you’re disrespecting your parent’s agency.
Imagine the thread: My son is talking like an atheist, how do I make them change?
I’d gladly take them to church if that was all it was. But aside from wanting me to attend they bring the sermon into every conversation to the point where we can barely talk anymore. I’ve suggested seeking support even at the church if they don’t want a therapist, but they’d rather just lecture about the sinfulness of watching TV or how they regret not forcing me to attend church every week. I thought religion is a personal relationship with the deity in question? Why drag in people who don’t want to be involved in it?
So…is this about how her religious beliefs are affecting HER life?
Or is it more about how her religious beliefs are affecting your relationship with her?
It’s the 2nd one, I’m not trying to take away her source of spiritual relief or anything - but to make it really simple, it’s no longer “I love God and live by his teachings” but unprompted “You’ll burn in hell for not loving God, you believe in nothing and God will make you pay” kind of lectures for like 2 hours. Surely that’s cause for concern considering I have to talk to her everyday?
If the relationship is worth salvaging, you can meet her halfway. It will take a LOT of work on your part. A lot of compromise. You’ll probably end up feeling suffocated and you’ll probably lie to her a lot, to make her feel better.
“Mom, I want to do better by you. I want you to be proud of me. I’m not saying I believe everything in the Bible, but I want to ask you some things. About sin and God. I’m not promising to change, but I promise to keep an open mind.”
Something like that. Then, for topic, ask her to describe a situation where she felt sinful, and exactly what she did to avoid it.
Basically, you are putting her in a position to be a mentor but ONLY if she shows vulnerability and shares with you her weaknesses. This changes the dynamic of your relationship, puts you on equal footing. Now she is a sinner too.
Most likely, if she takes the bait, she will tell you about a very small sin. “Oh, I wanted to slap that cashier, but I prayed and God took all the violence away from me.”
Start picking away, theologically speaking. “So…did you actually sin? Is just thinking about something a sin? Is that really the worst thought you’ve ever had? Have you ever actually sinned, like in real life?” Make it seem like you understand nothing about how sin really works. Encourage her to give personal examples.
Of course, the conversation might go a totally different direction. Just take it where it goes. Never escalate, always treat her with respect when talking about religion. At any point, when you’ve hit a brick wall, just stop.
Wait for her to finish talking. Look thoughtful. Meet her eyes. Open your mouth to speak and then close it. Pause again. Then say “I need to think about that. And maybe read…” Walk out of the room. Pop your head back in. Say “Thank you Mom, for taking me seriously.”
It’s worth noting that I moved out of my parents’ house as soon as I graduated high school to get away from bullshit like this. In the long run, I might have been happier to find a compromise and learn to live with my mom’s nut beliefs and self-righteousness. Best of luck!
That’s kind of what people finding new meanings on life are like. Is there a power dynamic with your parent where they can still affect your quality of life? If not you can still be supportive of their journey while not letting them curmudgeon you with guilt. Not every Christian has to use their ideology to kill their empathy, though that’s usually what disenfranchised new converts are trying to do.
Either way, based on these statements they’re obviously too far into it for one person to pull them out. At that point the challenge is more getting them to still recognize your agency and personhood. Draw the boundaries where their faith ends and your life starts.
“Is there a power dynamic with your parent where they can still affect your quality of life?” In short, yes - enough that the guilt is already there. I’m not trying to change their religious beliefs or anything, but they’ve never reached the “you’ll burn in hell for [insert anything here really]” stage before. That’s supposed to be like a red flag right?
Yeah that’s pretty hateful. There’s something underlying there that Christianity is accelerating. Somebody else suggested gaining some distance and that sounded extreme but maybe that’s not such a bad idea. You don’t want to be dependent on a Christian who is in a mental health spiral
I think you have your last sentence wrong:
My son is talking like a militant atheist, how do I make them change?
To contrast with the assumptions in your comment: I’m agnostic and I dislike talking to my atheist brother but quite enjoy talking to my christian family, excluding that stage when a few were born again and wanted to save you too.
The request is for managing the way someone in their life is pushing their beliefs. You’re focusing on the tangential context, the persons specific beliefs (that was added as useful context for the people offering helpful ideas)
Oh god no. There are many objectively predatory beliefs and dangerous ideas out there. This is irresponsible.
I agree with your point that people should get to decide for themselves. But not if their beliefs are hurting others. Historically, religion has done more harm than good.
If they’re Christian:
Matthew 5:32 ESV
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
They’ve always been religious but like in the sane way.
Try and encourage them to stay in a Church if it’s a well established sane one. Maybe get them to go to fellowship events there or meet with friends. Isolating themselves is the worst thing for them.
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I don’t believe in any of this shit - but your mom does, so that’s how we have to approach the problem. If religion got her to this point, religion can dig her back out of it.
"Mom, I want to talk about God. Like, a serious talk about serious stuff. I’m concerned that you are trying shoulder a HUGE emotional and spiritual burden right now, all by yourself. It’s too big a load. You need to put some of it down.
All this sin around us? All this evil? It’s what God wanted, right? God created all of humanity and, through Satan, put sin in their hearts.
But after thousands of years, God saw that humanity needed a broader message, a message that could be understood by all people of the world, not just the Israelites. So he sent his son with an update. And Jesus tells us to take care of those things within our power and leave the rest to God.
Mom, for your own sake, please think on this. Pray on it. Talk to your friends at church about it. God doesn’t want you taking the weight of the world on your shoulders. It’s too much to bear."
Maybe grab a Chrisian bible and show her the following, she’d probably love it if you did a little bible study with her:
1 Peter 5:7 (NIV): “Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you”.
Psalm 55:22 (NIV): “Cast your cares on the Lord and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous be shaken”.
Psalm 81:6 (NLT): “I will take the load from your shoulders; I will free your hands from their heavy tasks”.
2 Corinthians 12:9 (NIV): “But he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness’”.
Isaiah 10:27 (KJV): “…the burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and thy yoke from off thy neck…”.
Philippians 4:6-7 (NIV): Encourages prayer over worry, promising that God’s peace will guard hearts and minds.
Personally, I think your parents should be allowed to make their own decision about what religion and/or spirituality they want to adopt.
The reason they’re gravitating toward the religion is likely because the divorce has left them with an emotional hole. They’re finding love and compassion in the message of the religion, and probably some more compassion and companionship from fellow members of the religion.
While the message from the leaders may well be a ruse to hook people and get their money, the perceived benefits and actual fellowship are going to be hard for you to compete with. Especially so if you’re approaching it from the “all of you are batshit crazy” angle.
I think if you really want to help your parent, the best option would be to find a way to provide them even more love, compassion, and companionship than the church gives them. Then they might consider listening to your opinions on organized religion at some point later down the line after they’ve had time to heal from the emotional trauma that comes with divorce. This may also be a good strategy to help yourself if you’re feeling affected by the change too.
Ex-cult member here.
The only thing that snaps someone out of that spiral is an internal realization. There’s nothing we as outsiders can really do directly. Engaging with their version of reality (Christian evangelicals specifically) feeds into the prosecution complex and perpetual victimhood that validates their position. It’s a self-defeating tactic to confront them directly.
Focus on positive, normal, consistent interactions. Share your regular, everyday triumphs. If your lifestyle comes up in conversation, express being satisfied with it. Decline going to church with them. Don’t debate their stances on doctrine if you share a root faith. Deflect and redirect. When the opportunity arises, maybe ask a question that invites some introspection about the subtle (but structurally loadbearing) flaws in their worldview. But don’t probe too much. Again, bear in mind, they’re trained to take every perceived attack as a trigger to rehearse their dogma. Be subtle.
And above all, unless they are actively abusing you, don’t abandon them. That’ll seal them in and you’ll never get them back. Continue your hobbies and appointments, and keep a schedule (movie night, for example.) Eventually, they might feel vulnerable enough to express their insecurities about inconsistencies in their worldview. Be gentle with them, as this is a remarkably scary thing for them to even voice out loud.
If they love you–and I mean really love you–no preacher with an ego to preen will ever take them from you.
Spirituality is healthy when it isn’t exclusionary. Unfortunately it too often manifests as ancient dos and don’ts, haves and have nots.
Dont quote scripture at them. Approaching an emotional challenge with a logical solution is never well received. The other side just assumes you don’t understand what they’re going through. This isn’t a debate for one side to win. This is a (midlife) crisis of meaning and one’s sense of morality or righteousness. Perhaps they feel the divorce was not in line with their religious beliefs and looking out for faults in others is how they’re trying desperately make peace with what’s happened.
They’re probably looking for some form of healing from a broken relationship they’ve both heavily invested in, and finding fault in others gives them a momentary vindication, the ability to say “see, I’m not that bad”.
It what context are they lecturing? Is it due to people they’re directly interacting with or social media?
I can tell they want emotional support through all this and usually that’s really easy to help them through because all I need to do is sit and listen to them go through the grief while giving input if they ask and stuff but when they suddenly lurch into the Repent Session it’s like a completely different conversation is happening.
Any interaction, real-life or social media could trigger it. Like if they see a testimony of someone’s divorce story on tiktok, or if they got bad service at a restaurant, and especially when dealing with the legal process and settlement. And most of all when the televangelists are on TV or social media.
Judge not, before you judge yourself.
Wow, so insightful 🙄
Says the hypocrite who is only here to cast their stone. If hell existed you’d burn.
Okay? I meant it quite sincerely. Don’t worry about changing your parents. They will die soon enough. Just enjoy your time together.
They’ve always been religious but like in the sane way.
Telling them that they should’ve addressed this sooner isn’t helpful to OP right now.
Yes, people can be that
It doesn’t seem to be the case for op’s parent.
Unfortunately, as a child, you can’t do anything else than getting the fuck out of there as soon as possible. If you have lil’ bros and sis’, you have to take them with you, else they’ll destroy their minds as well.
Save yourselves.
You don’t. If their mind is already primed to fall for this nonsense, there isn’t much you can do to help them.
give arguments for why you believe Jesus was a homosexual
