As an American myself, I’ve asked several people this question. No one seems to know why either. Is it strategic position in the world? I don’t think they have anything the US can exploit besides that really. Am I missing something? Political arguing aside what exactly is the motivation? Thanks for any explanations.
AIPAC, and Zionist supremacists pay the most for elections every cycle, and just demand that their clients say nice things about Israel, and mean things about its enemies. Relative to other US oligarchy, the bribes to cash back ratio is small in most years. Because all US media is controlled for Zionist supremacist goals, it is far easier for all politicians and oligarchy to go along with Zionist genocidal absolutism, then to be labelled an anti-semite extremist.
AIPAC political donations to lawmakers and politicians. They’re the second largest lobby contributor and influence politicians for Israel.
They’re responsible for the idea behind the Evangelical salvation end days propaganda that induces people to think a war in Israel will bring on apocalypse and rapture.
Evangelicals look forward to the rapture. I’ve been to a lot of Evangelical churches, and, without exception, they want it to come.
That’s my point.
You communicated that part badly, your comment looks like you are saying it’s false and the only reason people believe Evangelicals want that is because of AIPAC.
Well yeah, if that comes then they’re proven right and they get to go to heaven while all the “bad” people stay here.
Do you mean the rapture of -99, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011(sure this time), 2013 (I mean 13, right?!!), 2014, …
Who funds AIPAC is probably a better question.
We do. The US government gives billions of dollars to Israel, who in turn launders that back into AIPAC and into our politicians pockets. Sure, there are other donors like Miriam Adelson, but she can’t fund the entire government (even though it takes as little as $10,000 to get a politician to change their vote.)
I imagine the us government can’t fund its own candidates and so has to go this route?
The US government has legalized bribery in the form of Political Action Committees, aka “PACs”. Each PAC is a special interest group that contributes to a politician in order to help get them elected. The PAC then expects an ROI - return on investment - for the money they contributed to the campaign. The ROI usually comes in the form of shilling for said special interest.
To add fuel to the fire, when Citizens United was overturned in 2010, it allowed dark money to be invested into campaigns. This shit was so significant, that I can actually remember where I was when I heard about it and can still feel the echos of dread. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/citizens-united-explained
This country is fucked. No politician will ever vote to repeal that. Why would they? The amount of money they receive from it would make Scrooge McDuck blush.
jeees you love a religious conspiracy fantasy eh
the jews needed a place to go and palestine had loads of land for sale
the rest is history
WTAF is wrong with you?
If Jewish people have a “Right to exist,” do Palestinians? If not, then where should they go?
People have a right to exist, but states do not. States change. Does Ukraine have a right to exist? They used to be a part of the USSR and were solidly inside those boundaries. Is Russia’s incursion into their sovereign territory lawful?
Where do you draw the line? Who gets to exist and who gets to die? What about the children who were born there? Do you just say, “woops, you suck because I hate your parents. die, babies.”
The future is not history and you are a Zionist prick.
It’s a friendly nation in an area where those are scarce, so being able to base military operations out of there is seen as a key strategic asset.
Not defending, just explaining.
Any country can be friendly. If they have an advantage to be your friend. Iran can be friendly to the usa and europe if they stop sanctionning them and stop supporting israel the only settler colonial power in the middle east
There is a difference between the friendliness between the west and Israel, which is based on a long history of alliance and a shared culture, and the friendliness between the west and other middle eastern states, which is understood to be based entirely on economic and strategic benefits. Even if sanctions on Iran were lifted and relations were normalized, they would likely occupy a similar “friendliness level” to that of Saudi Arabia. Willing trading partners - but keeping the west at arm’s length
There is a difference between the friendliness between the west and Israel, which is based on a long history of alliance and a shared culture
It is based on history of colonization and imperialism
I mean, would you prefer we bond better with the Saudis and Iranians over a history of religious fundamentalism and subjugating women? Because we can do that, too, if you’d prefer.
The hell is that bullshit. I will not play the game of who is worst although we all know who is . You simply do not become a friend with a settler colonial power trying to exterminate a population of 5 - 6 millions from the land . Your shitty country is already an ally of Saudi arabia too
I will not play the game of who is worst although we all know who is
lol
Of course you are going to ignore the part where that israel is genociding palestinians for 78 gpddamn year. The west is supporting Israel which is also a religious state because of imperialism and history of colonization that is a fact
Hey here’s an idea what if we don’t bond with any of them and give up this incredibly expensive and wasteful project of taking over the Middle East and instead spend that money on things like healthcare and green energy?
Not opposed. Lets do it
Yeah cause Saudi, qatar and UAE aren’t bending over backwards to lick the US dick …
Historically, the relationship between the US and Israel is far closer than others in the region. Everyone else are much more like fair weather friends. Intelligence between the two is highly integrated to a degree unseen outside of the closest US allies.
That’s a great point, Israel does seem like a bit of a financial burden these days though …
From a point of view of military strategy, the money is chump change.
There are obviously a lot of reasons - one I haven’t seen mentioned here yet is that they’re our only real ally in the region and the best spies in the world; a combination that makes them incredibly attractive as “strategic partners” if the goal is to influence politics in a region you have very little other indirect methods of manipulating.
They’ve worked damned hard to make sure they’re in that position, too. Being invaluable to maintaining US influence in the middle east is the reason the US backs them militarily, and without that backing they’d get absolutely flattened by their neighbors. Thus the toxic symbiotic relationship you see today, with massive campaign contributions and influence operations from both sides designed to ensure they don’t ever lose that mutual support.
They were basically a hedge against USSR in the region for 50+ years. People forget that. Both powers were interested in carving up the world, and Middle East was one of the battlegrounds.
This is the answer as i understand it.
They’re a strategic partner.
Thank you so much for the thoughts, they all make sense.
The region is still very important from a geopolitical standpoint. As last months oil prices have shown.
Israel don’t have (m)any friends in the region. They are a reasonably stable democracy. This makes them a dependable ally. What would happen if there was a revolution in Saudi Arabia for example? Probably something similar to Iran 1979.
So having Israel as an ally is a huge multiplier in power projection in the region.
Why do you need to project power when it’s so expensive? It’s sort of what superpowers do. Meddle in the affairs of smaller countries to further their own goals. If not the US then Russia or China.
Because Israel supplied the US with orange juice during the Korean War.
AIPAC has infiltrated all the way to the local level. Israel is our greatest enemy and it has fully infected every cell of our body
AIPAC gives money to politicians, Epstein gathers dirt on rich people and politicians- politicians now have to do whatever they are told by Israel. citizens United accelerated this by making it easier to just bribe (sorry “give donations”) politicians than using pedophile honeypots to gain influence
It’s their attack dog in the SWANA region. As Biden said, if Israel did not exist the US would have to create an Israel.
I don’t think people get that that history of the US is what we’re seeing in Israel now. What’s happening to the people of the middle east happened first to the people of turtle island. It’s the continuation of the same project of domination and land grabs.
USA has a large population of Jews. Not all are zionists, in fact there have been many anti-zionist Jews protesting against Israel’s genocide of Palestinians. However, some are zionists. Some Jews see Israel as a backup plan - if shit goes south in the USA they can always flee there.
USA has a lot of evangelical Christians. Somehow (it’s not in the Bible) they have convinced themselves that a Jewish return to the Holy Land is necessary before the end of the world happens. Which they want to happen, because they believe they are the good guys and will go to heaven.
USA has a lot of racists. They see Israel as an ethnostate, they like that and support it. Their hatred of brown people is stronger than their hatred of Jews so they are happy to see Israel oppress Palestinians.
USA also has anti-semites who are glad to see a place exist where Jews “should” go to. And they are ecstatic that Israel’s genocide of Palestinians is igniting a new wave of anti-semitism.
Many Americans also see Israel as the only democracy in the middle east. It isn’t a democracy, of course, since it has de facto control over Palestine and therefore a huge population is disenfranchised. But wait - rights only for a certain group of people, oppression for the rest - that’s like America when it was “great” (ie pre-Civil Rights era) and they want America “great again”.
This paints an extremely bleak picture of the US population that really doesn’t match reality very well.
To start, there are about 10 million Jews in the US, if we consider the most liberal possible definition of being Jewish, which includes even people who don’t consider themselves Jewish but who live in a Jewish household. Source. With the current US population of 350 million, that means about 3% of the population is Jewish. That is not enough to sway any real policy decisions, unless the group formed an extremely organized voting bloc, which they do not.
Evangelical Christians make up a more significant chunk of the US population, but they tend to be more concerned with restricting women’s bodily autonomy. If you were to grab a random evangelical off the street, they might know about this rapture theory, but they would probably be like “why are you talking to me, I’m trying to buy milk”
It is difficult to measure how many people in the US are racist or antisemetic, since such topics are taboo and people tend not to advertise their stances. But I would guess that the population of racists or antisemites who are really in the weeds enough to support Israel would be lower than the population of Jews. Most of these people are not smart enough to pull off those mental gymnastics.
Instead, the important thing to know about the average American is that they are not keeping up with global geopolitics. They understand that part of the reason for the creation of Israel was so the Jews wouldn’t get genocided again, and they know that Nazis and genocide are bad, so they support it. They might have heard about Hamas, Gaza, or a two state solution, but they would fumble if you asked them to explain the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah, or asked them to point to Gaza on a map of Israel. And if you asked them to explain the two state solution, a lot of them would struggle to remember what the other state even is. Their main concerns if you start talking to them about the Isreal-Palestine conflict are (1) to make sure that you understand that they are not a nazi, and don’t want the Jews to be genocided again and (2) exiting the conversation as soon as possible so they can buy milk and watch Survivor.
“Jew” is actually something us Khazars made up around the 12th or 13th century. I’m a partial Khazar, and I never knew that until I learned what it meant.
With the current US population of 350 million, that means about 3% of the population is Jewish. That is not enough to sway any real policy decisions, unless the group formed an extremely organized voting bloc, which they do not.
Consider that much of the Jewish population is condensed into a few important population centers. This makes them a pretty strong voter bloc in some parts of the country.
Sure, in some parts of the country. But Jewish influence in national US politics comes more from the population’s outsized influence in wealth, certain industries, and political positions - not from the average jewish voting bloc itself.
Highest Percentage by State:
- New York: ~8.5%–8.8%
- Washington D.C.: ~8.4%
- New Jersey: ~6.2%–6.3%
- Massachusetts: ~4.5%
New York, DC & Mass are hardly battleground states, and while I don’t know as much about New Jersey they haven’t voted for a Republican president since Bush Sr
DC isn’t even a state
Voting is nothing, money is everything. Don’t look at it as a matter of votes, but as a matter of donors, and AIPAC is a very significant donor.
This paints an extremely bleak picture of the US population that really doesn’t match reality very well.
lemmy.txt
evangelicals and jews in the USA are far more political active though than the majority of the citizenry. there interests are over-represented in government, esp at the federal level.
especially evident by the power of their lobbying groups over members of congress.
You make good points - the reality is that most people whether in the USA or not are “apolitical” and have a surface-level understanding of things. Probably the thing to figure out is how that surface-level understanding is even formed. Those who DO have a strong opinion about things are more likely to be the ones trying to pull “common sense” or surface level understanding toward what they support.
Probably the thing to figure out is how that surface-level understanding is even formed.
I think probably the biggest factor is simply the fact that WW2 occupies such a large space in the American historical zeitgeist. WW2 is a story that makes us look good, and we like stories that make us look good, so we keep telling them. And in the WW2 story, the jews are the victims, and their happy ending is creating a homeland of their own. So the American view, by default, is that Israel has an ethical right to exist as a home state for the jewish people.
Many jews in the united states, especially older jews, are very sympathetic to this view. While they have never experienced systemic persecution themselves, the jewish community at large is bonded over their historic persecution and internally reinforces these norms. Meanwhile, jewish people are significantly overrepresented in the entertainment industry, in wealth, and in positions of political power. The meme of “jews run the world” is a conspiracy theory - but jews do have an outsized influence in society relative to their population. This is likely due to founders effects of immigrating with some level of wealth or expectation of wealth, compounded over time with the additional benefits of being part of a social network which advances its own. For example, a young jewish comedian will have another jewish comedian friend who has an aunt who has a friend who knows Seinfeld’s neice’s boyfriend, who can arrange for him to open at a moderately popular LA comedy club. Being part of the jewish diaspora will give you opportinities that you otherwise wouldn’t get. And so you have a lot of wealthy jews in positions of power in the government and the media, with a culturally imposed mandate to consistently remind the non-jews of the jewish history of persecution and the need to support and protect them from further persecution.
A wealthy elite from Wall Street to Hollywood with lots in between is a large attractor to support Israel. Every political campaign has to court the jewish vote regardless of stance to stay competitive in votes and campaign finance.
Imbuing governance with religion removes logic and reason from the answer to the equation. You’re looking for a logical reason where there is none.
My dad is in his 80’s and has been an atheist and hardcore liberal democrat for most of his life. The only political subject we’ve ever seriously butted heads on is Israel.
The last time we argued about it, his position was basically that, as a state, it had the right to defend itself from all the “hostile” countries around it. According to him, it even has the right to expand outward to protect itself by creating buffer zones. If Palestinians didn’t want their innocent children bombed to bits, all they needed to do was renounce Hezbollah and/or leave the area entirely.
I was pretty dumbfounded hearing him say this. He’s an avid reader and total history nerd, so to hear him hand-waving genocide was pretty shocking to me. I think it comes from growing up a boomer and a lifetime of deep-seated indoctrination that painted post-WW2 Jews as forever the good guy victims who are just struggling to recover from the atrocities of the past. A mindset that people born in the 70s, 80s, (and so on) just can’t relate to.
I know that doesn’t exactly answer your question, but I wrote this out as much for me as for you. I love my dad and he’s an extremely good person, so it’s pretty shocking for me to have this huge wedge issue between us. If he could learn to separate Jewish people from the state of Israel, he might understand, but frankly, at his age, I doubt he’ll ever come around.
I think it is as simple as it is far enough away that many “normal” people didn’t want to look into the details of it and the news wouldn’t cover the bad shit israel would do. I remember being content with that same narrative and sentiment your dad had, and I think it was just because I was focused on other things.
