I am seeing this pattern a lot lately, whenever a person disagrees strongly or expresses conservative/right wing views, they are told to go back to reddit.
You can say ‘Don’t bring these bullshit views to the fediverse,’ or something of that sort. I am a reddit refugee myself, and part of the Reddit API exodus. Being told to go someplace I just left due to ethical reasons feels bad. So, I want to understand why it is being used as a retort. Is it really rude, or am I making a fuss out of nothing?
Edit 1: I am NOT defending conservative views, I think that they should not be given a platform in the fediverse. I am questioning how telling them to go back to reddit is a valid response.
Edit2 : Edited the the title to better represent my question.
whenever a person disagrees strongly or expresses conservative/right wing views
That makes sense. Usually the people who get mad when someone isn’t loyal to their cause is unhinged with delusions of grandeur.
The Fediverse is for everyone.
Speaking as a punk, it’s about keeping a community a healthy, welcoming place for the 99% of people who aren’t assholes. There’s a reason why we say ‘Nazi punks fuck off.’ It’s not just a slogan or part of a song, it’s a declaration that this house will not be used as a gathering place for people who want to tear it down.
“Agree with me or leave.”
“Nazi opinions are just as valid as everyone else’s”
No. All Nazis should be shot.
You people like crying “nazi!” every time someone disagrees with you on a political issue so you can silence them.
Who’s you people ?
‘You people’ is typically defined by the attached action. ‘You people’ are the people who actually do that thing, whatever it is.
If you don’t do it, ‘you people’ is not you.
If you do do it, ‘you people’ is you.
The point is not about ‘who’, it’s an oppositional statement about the ‘what’, the action, and implies it’s bad, or more importantly that the speaker doesn’t approve.
Like: ‘You people, always with the child raping.’
If you don’t rape children, ‘you people’ isn’t you.
But also, the speaker is implying that child raping is bad, or something they don’t approve of, and something they don’t do.
The statement you replied to was specifically about Nazi punks a well documented issue? Are you fucking illiterate?
The problem is that people like you will lie about who is a nazi in order to silence them. This, in turn, devolves into a culture of “agree with me or leave.”
Are you fucking illiterate?
Lol, irony.
Who is people like me? Non whites? Who have I called a nazi? You replied to a post about nazi punks (a hyper well documented phenomenon) and how punks have to make it clear they are not welcome much like bars to avoid becoming nazi bars. What is your point? Nazis should be welcome? Because your spiel about mislabeling isn’t relevant.
Because your spiel about mislabeling isn’t relevant.
Except it is. If people didn’t regularly do what I’m accusing them of, then you’d have a point.
No… cf “paradox of tolerance”
What about it? People disagreeing with you doesn’t mean they aren’t tolerating you. They would need to ban/censor you in order for that to happen.
People disagreeing with you
That’s not what OP was on about. They were talking about nazism. That’s not a differing opinion, a valid stance, or something to even remotely consider. Nazis aren’t “people disagreeing with you”
You would have a point if people didn’t call their opponents nazis on these forums just to get them censored.
Not sure what you said, your last word was censored. In any case, you’re off-topic. Read from the top.
No, I’m right on topic.
Saying “nazis aren’t welcome” is akin to “agree with me or leave” in an environment where people call their opposition nazis just to have them censored.
This is that environment.
Conservative/right-wing views have absolutely nothing to do with it in my books.
This is a smaller community with seemingly slightly more accountability, or at a minimum, decency and respect for our fellow humans and internet citizens. The majority of the animals on reddit because like 10 year olds in a COD lobby - hiding behind internet anonymity to act like complete assholes, and be as rude and disrespectful as they possibly can, because they believe there will be no consequences.
When I see someone behaving like that, seemingly unable to carry on a civil conversation, I do not hesitate to suggest that they go back to Reddit if they’re going to behave like those people. We do NOT want this community to devolve to that level. It is not a serious suggestion that they return there - it’s more so an invitation to examine their behavior, and maybe take a step back, and look at this community overall vs. that community overall, and give some consideration to maybe behaving like a mature adult instead. Spelling it out that way when dealing with those kinds of people typically just encourages them to double down though, so it gets wrapped up in that little retort instead.
I mean, it’s intended to be an insult because the implication is that Reddit sucks.
I personally never understood the “Redditor” insults.
Reddit is just a forum directory with an infinite feed. You can find cringey weirdos but there’s also subreddits for potted plants, chess, home improvement, etc. which are pretty mundane and low drama.
I left Reddit for similar reasons, but I still use it sometimes for troubleshooting and advice in the IT/Programming space.
Short answer? It’s normally used against conservatives, but cliques and purity politics (both literal politics and not) do come into play on occasion.
Longer answer: Lemmy was originally founded by a bunch of Marxist-Leninists and socialists of similar stripes (that’s what the .ml stands for), and early adopters often made up some form of minority group/outcast - LGBTQ and the like. This has led to a very zero tolerance policy towards conservative “talking points” and the usual bag of tricks that they employ when attempting to colonize an area/group. Especially as Reddit has further enshitified, but even before then Redditors were generally thought of more in terms of r/the_Donald subscribers rather than as disparate groups from across the political spectrum.
There are of course the “joined Lemmy before it was cool” groups who resent the growing popularity of the platform - especially after the Reddit API exodus that brought you and me here - but I think they’re largely relegated to the parts of Lemmy that most of the instances defederated from. Some of those places are basically the leftist equivalent of 4chan, and would absolutely use it as an insult if you failed their political belief purity tests.
In short, basically everybody would use it for a Trumper, but a small few might use it on me if I were to say something like that I think that dbzer0’s support of genAI inherently makes the instance pro-corporatism so long as they’re the ones benefitting from stealing labor from workers, and an even smaller few would probably use it simply because I started using Lemmy during the Reddit API fiasco.
Longer answer: Lemmy was originally founded by a bunch of Marxist-Leninists and socialists of similar stripes (that’s what the .ml stands for)
Technically .ml stands for Mali, and was chosen because the domain is cheap. Ended up being a bit of a funny coincedence.
TIL, I thought it was intentional from the start.
The official story is that it’s accidental, that’s what I know, though the devs are MLs and lots of MLs like me use Lemmy.ml.
It’s slightly less obvious than “log off”.
Redditors self-police their speech to fall in the window of acceptable debate. They are deeply brainwashed but have no idea of it because Reddit moderators ban anything not deemed “acceptable speech” by their media overlords. Hence they will spam the term “tankie” if someone for example tells them that killing the Iranian leader will only end up like killing Saddam in Iraq.
In the wise words of pedo-Zionist:
is he a pedo scientist tankie?
Chomsky famously hated Marxists and never bothered to study Marxism enough to understand what dialectical materialism means. For a scholar who made a career of shitting on socialism in real life, this alone should tell you how unserious he is.
He was a Democrat
Somehow, it’s way easier to get banned here than over there, though.
Remember when CTH was banned for saying “kill slave owners”?
Ooooh I wanna try this.
Kill Slave Owners.
Murder Slave Owner.
Absolutely turbo murder kill slave owners in real life no cap.
It’s not if you know the forbidden Reddit terms. Try saying anything anti-Zionist on mainstream Reddit subs and you are banned in half a second by automated bots.
That actually got me a temp ban here once, as well.
It was even a nuanced “both sides are human” take, not Hamas is awesome. I know, I wasn’t expecting it for that either.
“Nuanced”Both sidesing in the face of a genocide? Condemning the oppressors and oppressed in equal measure? Do you not see the issue with that?I was trying to debunk someone pro-Israeli, so…
Both sidesing genocide is still bad even if you are “debunking” hard-line pro genociders. If your position is anything short of Israel shouldn’t exist it’s liberal Zionism. You should have nothing but support for the liberation movements of oppressed nations even if they don’t fit your pr standard.
Sure. Please explain that to whichever mod is the Zionist. Maybe I’ll actually speak out against it again, then.
Explains why they think lemmy is more ban happy than reddit. It certainly is, for genocide bothsiders.
not Hamas is awesome
Should have been perma
No, you misunderstand. I was arguing against a Zionist.
You should have told then Hamas is awesome
I’ve always seen that used in response to some insipid memey smuglord comeback behavior
.ml being the biggest user of that phrase
To be fair, Lemmy.ml is the dev instance, and Lemmy was made very specifically to not have the problems Reddit has.
Yea i know and that’s valid. But look at the downvotes for the truth
They are trying make lemmy like reddit and that’s why they act like buttheads.
oh thanks, I can block everyone in this thread to speed up my purging proccess
What?
Lemmy is older than the Reddit exodus, and historically had stricter moderation. When the exodus happened, the OG lemmy users saw the newcomers as rude at best, and various forms of bigots at worst. So ‘go back to Reddit’ is short-hand for ‘such talk is not welcome here’.
Yeah, but at that point it was pretty much a ghost town. The only acceptable commentary to some people is whatever they type to themselves.
But that is unironically reddit behavior to use such insulting and dismissive language rather than saying… “such talk is not welcome here”.
Immaturity shouldn’t be acceptable, even from the “correct” opinion holder.
It’s kind of typical human behavior. People love forming little groups and then wailing on outsiders to it. It feels good.
Which is exactly why it shouldn’t be condoned or supported.
When your motivation doesn’t extend past stupid ape brain, you’re doing it wrong.
They seem to have a reddit user mentality but are using “go back to reddit” as some sort of superiority feign, would be my guess.
Edit 1: I am NOT defending conservative views, I think that they should not be given a platform in the fediverse.
So you’d rather eliminate their voice to conserve the status quo here?
Are you sure you’re NOT doing that?
Don’t ”paradox of tolerance” this shit, you know we shouldn’t allow hateful rhetoric here. It’s the reason all the other platforms are fucking terrible now.
I’d rather offer refutations and sound cogent counter-arguments, than leave them to run off unchallenged, doubling down with a sense of being right and up against the evil censors, conspiring in whatever echo chamber of bigotry they then find themselves welcomed to.
Only problem with that is these people aren’t capable of understanding refutations and cogent counter arguments. Allowing them on a platform automatically turns the platform into an echo chamber of bigotry that they make themselves welcome in
You think they are going to read your cogent counter-argument?
More chance of that if offered, than not.
Look back at the last 10 years of trying that. You don’t play chess with pigeons.
[Has worked quite well for me. Though I couldn’t put numbers on it, like Daryl Davis can. They’re not pigeons. That’s a flawed analogy, only further revealing your confirmation bias and dehumanising prejudice.]
I guess we should tell Daryl Davis to stop too, similarly citing the past years of having doing so proving to work well, and just continue to dehumanise and smear those he’d speak to, as beyond help, and ignore the hundreds he’s converted from the KKK and Nazi party, by just talking with them.
Or… maybe try it, persistently, non-hostile, not becoming them, not reaffirming their noxious combative ways back to them, instead of just hatefully dehumanising them, instead of reaffirming to them that they are their rotten ideas, instead of censoring and isolating and banning them to their echo chamber and you to yours, instead of all that polarising groupthink nonsense, just keep exposing them to better ways of being, and seeing that neither you, nor any of the targets of their misguided hate, are the monsters they imagine in their ignorance.
muh Daryl Davis
They have gestapo killing people and now theyve started WW3, shut the fuck up about Daryl fucking Davis and get clued into the situation dude. Nazis get the wall. You can try to give therapy to Hitler while they kill more people who don’t deserve it, I care about saving those people.
Hold up, isn’t that exactly the Paradox of tolerance, though? We cannot tolerate the intolerant conservatives in order to maintain a tolerant fediverse.
Yes, though as the person you’re responding to is trying to point out, using the Paradox of Tolerance to tolerate the intolerable because of some appeal to hypocrisy is exactly not how to use the paradox of tolerance.
While hypocrisy is an important part of the lessons to take from it, the hypocrisy parts are supposed to be about not stooping to their level in the process of not tolerating them as opposed to having to tolerate them.
Ahhh I think I misunderstood how they thought the Paradox of Tolerance was being applied.
Nah, this was a bit nebulous of a discussion since the original comment wasn’t exactly spelling out their intent.
After a few more replies, it looks like they weren’t trying to say bad ideologies should be tolerated in any form, more of just saying the, “go back to reddit” stuff is indeed stooping to a low that only the too intolerant use.
In the off-chance that someone is merely parroting bigotry/ideology that they were awash in and don’t truly believe, it is always better to tell them off in ways that don’t tokenize and reduce them to a charicature of the ideology. Especially don’t dismiss them in ways that allow them to dismiss you just as easily. “Go back to reddit” is tokenizing your own response, which just fuels division and enlightens noone.
I think the Right Wing Playbook series on Youtube explains very well why we shouldn’t suffer alt-right and fascist style argument anywhere. They are not in good faith and don’t contribute anything to the marketplace of ideas.
True conservative thought has a place but that is very very rare to see anymore.
“conservative” as a valid train of thought died with john mccain
john mccain
The guy that sang Bomb bomb bomb Bomb bomb Iran?
No, they mean the guy from Die Hard
“Conservative” as a valid train of thought never existed
They’re all rich men with delusions of grandeur who want to maneuver rubes into magical thinking about holy ideals and how cooperation is evil because it’s not what nature intended, so they can rob them blind for their own gain.
