- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
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I am once again posting a reply to help users of lemmy understand that there is no alternative to mullvad unless you can accept a lower privacy, anonymity and security standard of service.
That doesn’t mean if you leave mullvad you will be harmed, only that you will be losing safety margin.
Your decisions are your own: you may know better than me, you may be willing to suffer for your principles, you may believe your actions in the marketplace will have a tangible effect on the world but if you read this you can hopefully make those decisions yourself with clear eyes and understanding.
IVPN is often cited as an alternative to Mullvad. Is there any reason not to consider it now?
I have used ivpn in the past, before apps, and have some accounts for its present iteration that are not tested yet.
The biggest problem I see with ivpn is how complex its offerings are and by extension how difficult it is for even a user who has passing familiarity with VPNs like myself to make good choices.
While recently it’s been made the default, the user can still opt to create a username and password that are subpoenable pii, if that’s a word. Able to be subpoenaed.
It is not immediately clear what the security surface is on their various product tiers. I won’t go into all of them but the top features a third party firewall program called portmaster that’s developed by a different vpn company called safing. Perhaps this is useful to you. I found it to be another fractal galaxy of loose ends to tease out.
The above stuff is largely the same boat proton is in. You can set up a simple vpn account. Will you? They would love to give you a good deal on a big bundle…
Mullvad avoids this with a single product offering, no additional attack surface (except for their now ubiquitous version of the vpn app) and no way for the user to put them in a situation where they ever even have your information.
What remains to be seen is real strongly investigated results of a legal action against ivpn. Those legal actions have happened but they’ve largely been what get called “fishing trips” by exhausted public defenders in procedural dramas. There hasn’t been anything on the scale of what’s been pointed at mullvad and with the Byzantine stuff on offer by ivpn in comparison to mullvad it would be a real hoot to dig through that disclosure if and when it comes along.
It may behove you, as it once behove me (is it really spelled the same in past and future perfect tenses, like a read/read situation?) to disregard guides or recommendations and instead look into the information directly and draw your own conclusions.
For example: Often times, a guide or recommendation is formatted as a spreadsheet and the best option is the one that accumulates the most check marks across its row. That type of decision making system would give an advantage to services that support the use of the openvpn protocol since it’s one more check than those that don’t. Except for the common modern use case of openvpn is embedded edge devices like routers that may not support safe openvpn configurations.
So presence of footgun is a plus in many systems used to recommend VPNs and that’s just a simple example.
Everyone’s different and everyone’s needs are different.
I started using ivpn almost 8 years ago, and I believe the default setting back then was to not use accounts with usernames.
Some of the key reasons I chose it at the time were port forwarding (this service was later discontinued), its open-source F-Droid application, the ability to configure the WireGuard connection on my Linux machine without the application (I never tried it), its commitment to user anonymity (zero logs, payment methods, etc.), external audits, and the fact that it wasn’t based in an EU member state (ivpn is a Gibraltar-based company).
The last reason is that I live in the EU, which shouldn’t be a problem for those who don’t.
Since then, I haven’t bothered to check how the VPN industry has evolved. Thanks for the thorough answer.
Have you used any of the other stuff they offer like the dns or mail thing?
I have only used their WireGuard config file -> into /etc/WireGuard simple kind of man setup.
Nops, and I think that it’s a bad move to change their business model to be a VPN provider to a catch-all security related provider, also I only have the standard tie which don’t have the DNS, mail redirection or portmaster services.
Furthermore, my threat model changed with the struggle for the independence of Catalonia, it put the state as my main adversary, and making them waste their time and resources with multiple subpoenas is a plus.
What a weak statement. Not one mention of how the donation most likely came (in part) from customer funds.
Here’s the statement from Mullvad’s co-founder himself, which at least has some substance on the why: https://dberntsson.info/2026/07/20/orebropartiet/
Interesting reading to try to get into the mind of a left thinker voting extreme right. Although I didn’t share such opinion, his argument sounds like “I don’t trust/like my government, so, let’s support Hitler to do some opposition with the hope that he won’t be too powerful to enforce his policies what I don’t share”. Historically that doesn’t end well and it sounds really naive.
I think they’re severely underestimating how valuable the recommendation of techies/word of mouth effect is to their business…
Time will tell, the industry is based on paid ‘reviews’, and manipulation. There is little reason for any of them to pretend to be ethical, the biggest companies definitely aren’t. Mullvad are likely to feel this though, since they most likely have a more ethical user base than the competition. Airvpn and ivpn are no doubt gaining new customers.
My point was that their user base is more technologically adept than other businesses, and therefore it matters more for them. Also their selling point is that you “trust” them not to give your info away, and anything that makes them seem untrustworthy is bound to hurt their business. So they’re not really comparable to regular businesses when it comes to that.
There is no stance that Mullvad can take on this in order to make me want to stay with them, since this is not an abstract, philosophical matter. It’s simple: Daniel partially owns a pro profit company. I pay Daniel’s company some money. Daniel reaps - as he should - parts of the company’s revenue as wage (which is my money). Daniel uses that wage to fund whatever the hell he wants - as he should - with my money. I’m either fine with contributing to this or not. Period. I am not fine with it, so I’m flirting with IVPN.
How’s I been treating you?
wat
Ivpn, how’s it working out?
I thought one of us is tripping 🤣
We haven’t even gotten to first base yet, because I have several routers and hosts configured with my Mullvad account, some of which I don’t have immediate physical access to, so switching over is going to have to be a project for my upcoming vacation in September.
I made a couple of accounts with them but havent messed with their config generator or apps yet. Still trying to figure out how to allow a pc to select a vpn server but never drop the vpn even through root user intervention.
Can’t help you there. My endpoint hosts are Android devices and Windows systems and on them, using the Mullvad app with its killswitch, connections are blocked while it changes Mullvad server.
As for the routers, I configured them following more or less this guide: https://mullvad.net/en/help/running-wireguard-router
If you’re using wrt or pfsense or something (no word on if their tomato guide works for freshtomato devices yet), you’ll probably like ivpns router support: https://www.ivpn.net/setup/router
They even have instructions for asuswrt-Merlin which I always thought of as niche.
Thought experiment time…
part of the company’s revenue as wage
How far down the chain does that count for you? If there was a VP, Manager, or Individual Contributor that took their (personal) wages and donated to a cause you didn’t like, would you still pull your money?
Good question! I guess it does matter that he’s a cofounder and CEO. I honestly don’t know how I would react if we were talking about an employee instead. I’d deliberate and make up my mind there and then. Which sheds light on the fact that the matter isn’t as black and white as my comment made it sound.
Possibly off topic:
I work within the criminal justice system and I believe cops are pigs, while I know for a fact that there are good people on the force too. I wouldn’t give up my current position just because another “lowly” employee is rotten.
It was something I didn’t have a good answer for either. I think ownership is a good criteria but then I was trying to figure out why it was to me. Since it’s passed to an individual, via salary, is it still “my money”?
Amount could have something to do, but it’s possible for a highly paid IC to donate quite a bit.
The one that is cut-and-dry for me is something like Chic-Fil-A. My money is going directly to their foundation, which is used against LGBTQ people, so that’s an immediate hard no.
He is providing that political party with over half of its income if I recall correctly.
If Mullvad’s janitor were someone doing that and Mullvad refused to terminate them, I’d quit Mullvad.
If Mullvad’s janitor were someone doing that and Mullvad refused to terminate them, I’d quit Mullvad.
It’s Swedish company, there(and probably in most of the world) it’s illegal to fire someone for such reason, worker’s rights and all that.
Then I’d quit them….
Don’t fund the guy funding the white nationalist party. That’s rule 1 and we can sort the rest out later.
How would you do it? There’s no way to “quit them” unless they want to quit themselves, it’s not the US. If you think you can fire them and pay some fines, that’s not the case, you’ll pay them fines AND will be required to rehire them. Like the only way is to shut down the whole company or make them a super sweet offer, both require giving them a lot of money.
Just to make sure I understand, you do support employer discrimination against employees, just only for the political beliefs you find offensive. Do I understand that correctly? While I believe the only good nazi is a dead one, I alao believe the systems we set up generate the crap we have to deal with later.
It’s Karl Popper’s tolerance paradox. To answer your question, yes I am in support of discrimination against anyone using their salary to fund over half the annual budget of a white nationalist political party.
I, for one, am in support of your ability to stop giving mullvad money as a consequence, but not in support of anyone being fired over a political donation regardless. I don’t want to be fired over donating to causes I support, and there is no universal moral judge to say what is fine to donate to, even if I have pretty strong opinions on the matter.
The person you’re responding to is either speaking hyperbolically for Internet points or is actually too dumb to realize how stupid of a precedent that sets. Either way they aren’t worth engaging with.
I know… let’s have a spelling contest.
It’s also the scale of the donation for me. He didn’t just make a donation the way you or I probably would - his donation accounted for 72% of the party’s entire income for 2025. So the money that Mullvad makes is now tied to the continued existence of the party, albeit indirectly.
Very reasonable stance.
Gee, I wonder what the far-right thinks about letting leftists speak freely?
The conflation between a chud using mullvad vs using the profits from mullvad to fund a political party… Tf
What vpn to migrate to? Proton trys to be Google 2.0 and centralize, The ones from the adverts (nord, tunnelbear, surfshark) dont protect your privacy and are therefore useless…
Anyone with more tech knowledge got a recommendation fro maximum privacy and decent enough speed and ping for hd videos and casual gaming?
I’m going with Nym when my Mullvad sub is up. If I can get a refund from Mullvad without KYCing myself, I’ll do so earlier.
Nym runs your traffic through 5 nodes or 2 nodes (a nixnet) depending on user selected setting. Node operators are paid in crypto based on the number of packets they handle. The CEO is an anarchist and expects to be in prison at some point. Nym is designed to continue running even if all the higher ups are in prison.
I’m not a customer, just got all this from an interview with the CEO on with TheHatedOne.
Edit: This is the interview I mentioned https://www.bitchute.com/video/uoyDTW2nxWk
Thx for the suggestion, I have seen this, the hated one is my only good source on this topic, but more than one source would be nice.
The anarchist story was one of those which sounded almost to good to be true in my ears
My Mullvad sub ended very shortly after this news broke. I paid for nym but the connection on my Android would constantly disconnect and reconnect. On my Linux PC the connection was much more stable but every time I started my PC I would have to restart the daemon because it would never auto start properly. I ended up getting an ivpn subscription as I have used them before and had no problems. I paid for the 2 year sub for nym using their $nym token so it was fairly cheap. I don’t care too much as I want to support them and hope they can improve the experience and I may use the 5 hop mixnet occasionally.
Thanks for the heads up on Nym. I’ll have a look at iVPN.
I believe you can get a 7 day free trial with nym. I don’t want to dissuade you just because of my experience.
Airvpn and ivpn are the only ones that cone across as ethical to me now. No idea re: details since I have not used either of them (yet).
I use AirVpn. Seems good (no logs, etc) and they allow payment via bitcoin.
I moved to them as they allow port forwarding when many others were dropping the option
They really don’t get it, it is very disappointing, but they deserve to fail now. 99% of the VPN industry is dodgy, mullvad now included.
I have had a Mullvad account for many years. I now have an iVPN acc. It’s a very simple choice for me. If Mullvad’s success results in funding far right racists then I don’t care to assist that happening
Technically Mullvad didn’t fund them, it was there CEO who did it partially with money he got from working at Mullvad.
Read the blog article. They don’t even dare to call a cat a cat. Normalizing racism is endorsing racism
I have about 50 days left on my Mullvad subscription, so I figured I’d wait it out and see how they handled it. Going by this latest Mullvad response, I think I’ll probably have an IVPN account soon too.
We have nurtured a culture of radical tolerance.
Some people have nurtured a radical intolerance against funding right extremism.
Not gonna give them a single cent from now on.
Y’all are honestly crazy to grill Mullvad for some dudes behavior. He doesn’t even work at the company. And they’re basically saying, “we aren’t the thought police. What he donated to isn’t what we stand for he made that decision as his own person using his own free will”
And you guys are like “FUCK THEM”
Insane. Go ahead and use other VPNs that have never had their headquarters raided and PROVEN not to keep logs.
Does anyone know of a single other VPN company still owned by the original team that has done that? Roll the dice on the trustworthiness of your VPN if that’s something you’re comfortable with, your choice.
Yeah, like its not like the product is bad, it’s the best product on the market. Ruling out Mullvad here is simply a boycott.
To be honest, the current government coalition is worse than Örebropartiet. Sverigedemokraterna are nazis too, and they fund disinformation campaigns across the internet and take away internet and IRL privacy. The conservatives’ immigration minister’s son is literally in a brownshirt gang. If you’re going to boycott Mullvad over this, you might as well boycott all of Sweden.
He doesn’t even work at the company
He does, he’s the CEO and owner.
And you guys are like “FUCK THEM”
I think people just don’t want their money being used to fund far right extremism. As is their right.
Are you suggesting that people are somehow morally obligated to continue funneling money into a company when they know for a fact their money will be used for evil?
I mean shit my tax dollars fund evil every single day and the only company I know of that will actually keep me semi safe from my government is mullvad.
I just wish some other VPN service got raided like that and then I could comfortably switch but I’m way too paranoid for that I want a proven track record.
You’re legally obligated to pay taxes and you have some say in how they’re spent in the form of state and federal elections (or your country’s equivalent). If you’re doing everything in your power to make sure that money isn’t used for evil then ultimately you can’t be faulted for what happens beyond that point.
But on the other hand you’re voluntarily choosing to pay Mullvad knowing full well that your money will be used to prop up far right extremism and you have no say in it beyond your choice to give them your money.
How you rationalize that to yourself is a personal matter but it certainly and absolutely does not give you a moral high ground over people who choose not to fund evil.
Both are non negotiable for me. I don’t want my countries taxagwncy to steal my shit and throw me in prison for non compliance.
I also don’t whatever surveillance company the same government is using tracking my movements and habits like I’m a terrorist for my anti fascist viewpoints among other things. So in that way, I also can’t compromise on the only vpn service that’s been proven by police involvement not to keep logs despite if the owner is an asshole or not.
I guess the mods can remove this comment too for whatever reason (ah, its an .ml) but I am still allowed to have an opinion. Fair on not having the high ground though I’m unwilling to compromise on my privacy even for the greater good of this situation so it seems.
Damn the radical woke left with their impossibly high expectation of basic human decency.
We have nurtured a culture of radical tolerance. Even when some in our sphere of collaborators have advocated for actors and views that have personally and severely affected the founders and their family members, this has not stood in the way of cooperation.
The leopards that ate other people’s faces will definitely not eat my face too
What are the odds that the others are closeted fascists as well? UK the kind
we don’t agree with the right wingers but immigration is an issue and only they are addressing it, so I’ll keep to myself and not speak much
Given that Mullvad is the gold standard for ACTUAL privacy, can be paid with cash or crypto, has no user accounts and has been actually tested by law enforcement and they got fuck all.
What is the alternative? Privacy first VPN, not “I wanna watch Japanese Netflix” VPN.
Airvpn - great track record, been around forever
I’m currently on my first month of IVPN and I’ve had a better experience with Netflix’s regional restrictions. With Mullvad, Netflix eventually is able to catch up when I switch locations, and they block the content I want to see. IVPN is able to evade that, at least for now based on my experience.EDIT: Never mind, I misread your comment and thought you were asking about evading streaming regional restrictions specifically. lol
But yes, IVPN is a good alternative and recommended in privacyguides.
There isn’t one.
If you don’t need to have a legally tested system to protect yourself and can yolo it and also understand how to navigate their sites to pay cash only and not set up a normal account then both Ivpn and proton are fine.
Don’t use air for privacy. They’re a piracy service. They’re really good at that though.
Don’t use nym for a while. Even if they were trustworthy their tech is green and relies on the same systems that proof of stake cryptocurrencies do.
Safing is a little too complicated to recommend.
FUCK Mullvad now. Damn it
