Robertson is the supreme screw!
I fucking hate torx. The bits snap too often because they don’t cam out. Get some arm strength and keep your bit straight and phillips works great
Or get about half a brain and just don’t over tighten your torx screws until they snaps
Torx drivers are cheap and rubbish, but ooh boy, Philips is the worst.
Check out the Toque Test Channel on Torx drivers. The companies have different patterns for their heads with different advantages and disadvantages.
Philips is bad. Pozi-Drive screw with Philips head is awful.
Torx is undoubtedly a better screw head, but I have so many drivers, especially the smaller ones, that have snapped heads. It’s a manufacturing issue with the driver, not the screw head.
But I guess my comment still stands, you can complain about torx, but you absolutely can’t compare it to how shit Philips is (including every variation and adaptation).
the next stage is where I show the screw how to transform itself into a puddle
Also plastic clips on laptops, monitors or any small electronic, pretty much every time I open up something with those clips one of them just snaps apart.
That’s different.
That is 100% international
And likely intentional
Guitar picks. Slip them in the most pliable section of the seam and slide them along. You want the pick mostly pointing up or down so that it slips through the “buckle” of those plastic clips and allows the two parts to slide loose. If the pic gets stuck, flip it the other direction, and the wide end works better than the narrow end.
JIS!!!
And when some person inevitably uses a phillips on it, it will look like the picture above.
Why does this exist. Nobody has the driver for it. I could barely find a full size torx I needed for my car.
Using JIS basically requires buying a special high quality screwdriver set. A few years ago I bought a few Nintendo switch repair kits that came with JIS drivers, and ended up removing the screws with a drill. Since then I bought an ifixit kit, which has heads that are actually the right size - unfortunately it is too late for my poor switch, that is now slightly mangled beneath its case.
Basically what I’m trying to say is fuck JIS.
JIS is only good for being cheap, and only works if you’re a precision robot. You lose the autocentering and overtorque protection of Phillips, without gaining any of the advantages of Torx. (Phillips has overtorque protection in the sense that your tool doesn’t break, the screw does; which doesn’t matter if you don’t need to unscrew it.)
I thought the whole “JIS is different from Phillips” thing was a misunderstanding and JIS is just a type of Phillips or something and it and “regular” Phillips are more or less compatible
Edit I found this: https://www.tekton.com/blog/jis-vs-phillips-screwdriver-tip-geometry-and-fastener-compatibility
The last time this thread came up there were some convincing comments suggesting that the over torque protection for philips was not an intended feature.
Because Philips screws were supposed to cam out, to stop overtightening on airplanes.
Maybe we shouldn’t use Philips screws for non-aviation purposes.
Right but for aircraft we’ve got torque wrenches which can stop overtightening much more accurately.
I’ve read this was the justification after the fact.
The only reason they’re so common is because of Henry Ford. Ford wanted Robertson screws, but Ford also wanted to make his own screws in-house. Robertson wouldn’t license them, Philips would, the rest is history. Robertson screws are much more common than Philips up in Canada (where they’re from).
Robbies are a different kind of pain due to metric and imperial sizing
? Is this sarcasm. Robertson’s aren’t imperial or metric, they are numbered
the other commenter was right, I was misremembering and had hex keys in mind
It’s Allens that aren’t in arbitrary sizes but their actual dimensions and sold in metric and normal sizes.
metric and normal
ಠ_ಠ
😁
The problem with using phillips is selecting the correct size. If you have the correct size its much harder strip the threads.
Especially when a similar size will feel like it fits pretty well, until it came out at much less torque than it should.
I’ve picked up a set of anti-slip bits, they are pretty much ribbed so they bite into the screws just enough to cam out a lot less often. Works better than I hoped for maybe $7 for 5 bits in different lengths.
Came here to say this. The correct size and depth bit on a Phillips is a thing of beauty and grace. If you get it the slightest bit wrong (pun yes) God help you and your offspring to 7 generations.
One philips fits multiple sizes. A feature not a bug.
Yes, a #2 phillips will work for #1-3 screw heads, but will easily round over the smaller and larger screws. Using the correct size works much better. Also, getting a slightly more expensive screwdriver with the antislip ridges is a worthwhile investment.
Also using good drivers that still have sharp edges.
Still prefer torx for anything more than drywall or door hardware.
Use better screws, don’t screw around.
Don’t underestimate the efforts some people are willing to go to.
Quit screwing around! You all screw around too much!
Or the right size screwdriver and apply force down onto the screw as you turn
Doesn’t matter. It’ll still slip and partly strip it. Maybe only 1/5, but people are not machines.
I was going to say “don’t screw up”.
Hex screws are pretty good, I’ve never had one strip out
They do but you have to really work at it. I see them all the time as set screws on the fans in commercial ovens. Leave a set screw in an oven for years and that bastard will be so profoundly sized that you can round out even a hex screw.
better screws are torx
Nah, Robertson. Torx is designed to destroy bits.
Torx often ends up being the worst of both worlds imo. It grabs too hard and you can easily overdrive it and strip the hole in some material. And you can also still easily strip the head if you don’t get the bit seated all the way. I think the Robinson combo head is the best all around, since you have a Robinson bit for high torque applications and a Phillips bit for low torque and slightly off axis work. And then the “ecx” bit for “I’m going to friction weld this terminal screw shut” applications.
Better screws are hex. Torx belongs in the bin alongside slotted screws.
Unbrako and hex are great for bolts and machinescrews, on small headed woodscrews I’m a firm believer of the torx masterrace.
What makes torx crap? Unlike hex, you can still screw them in if your screwdriver is at an angle, which can be really convenient if you’re working at odd angles.
Robertson head screws are the second most popular fastener people pay me money to remove for them after they screw it up. Torx is third.
They make hex keys with ball ends to handle that
Yeah but with torx I don’t need an extra bit to handle that, it’s just a built in feature of the bit. It also doesn’t answer why torx apparently sucks? “Hex can also do that if you have a special bit” doesn’t make torx any worse.
Why would it be a separate bit? Most people I know just have a set of these
Material matters, if you use poorly made screws that’s when the head gets blunted.
Philips screws are intentionally made to strip though. Even the best material can’t fully offset bad design.
Philips heads are designed to intentionally cam over and limit torque, if you’re using the correct screwdriver that is quite a lot of torque. They certainly have a usecase, but that isn’t anywhere near me. I only use torx.
I read that was just an afterthought to explain away why they strip out so easily, instead of actually redesigning them
Have you been to a lot of hardware stores with different grades of every of the 257 different types and sizes and thicknesses they carry?
I’ll get the torx universal wood and stone ones, thanks.
Years ago when working in a boat shop at a “yachting center” aka “dudes with 20’ sailboats they’ve spent more effort repairing than their marriage” and I had a full wall of hardware.
An old school wooden hardware shelf.
My favorite thing ever in my whole life was being Willy wonka with fasteners and my rolly ladder
Robertson (square) is the best.
Americans just don’t know how to screw.
At this point you’re just asking for a yo mamma joke
My momma is Canadian and she don’t want no inferior American bits.
Yeah she sure knows how to screw
Yeah because she’s Canadian… unlike Americans who don’t know how to screw.
American here. Robertson is the absolute goat.
I try so hard not to overtighten them but always fail
Then there’s the Japanese Industry Standard (JIS) Philips, which is different from everything else. Without a JIS driver/bits, the head will strip.
I’m all for Torx and External (Inverted) Torx screws.
Finally! Somebody who’s not a simp for Robertson.
Why?
Robertson is clearly superior. You’re not going to strip that, and it holds onto the screw better.Yeah. Robertson plus an impact drill is some of the most fun screwing around one can do that doesn’t involve OP’s mom.
Robertson is great though
All this love for Robinson and Torx and im just here with Posidrive…
Use a battery drill with a torque limiter?
You can definutely put a torque limiter on your hands.
Everyone in here hating on philips head screws when old slot head screws are the true enemy.
Slot heads never wear out.
There’s like 3 use cases for slot heads, and there they’re worth their weight in gold. Everywhere else however? Fuck 'em.
Torx are the enemy.
Probably a bit extreme, but I do love torx screws. First choice for any project I start for sure.
Start buying Robertson, there’s no reason to use Torx at all except to piss off whomever has to deal with that project after you.
Torx is great until you can’t really see the bolt in question and think you have the right bit but actually it’s slightly small and rounds off the bolt entirely.
It is a good idea in general though.
As someone who has spent far more time than I want to think about removing screws and bolts that other people fucked, Robertson is the second most popular fastener to get brought to me with Torx in hot pursuit.
Philips head screws that are messed up come in two types. Soft cheese metal versions and the insidious Japanese style that are just ever sooo slightly different and require their own special driver. And most of you can’t tell the difference or even care.
Plus, Y’all buy cheap ass “turn screws” as the British used to call them. When you buy dollar store quality tools you deserve what you get and I don’t feel sorry for you.
Philips and JIS are interchangeable; it’s Pozi that’s not.
Have you ever turned these screws personally before? They are not perfectly compatible, just barely passable if the screw is in good shape and not too stuck.
So, I wanted to go at the guy for not reading your article but in reading it myself I did find possibly missing something. Like, they talk about them fitting within one another but then show that there are definitely differences. Maybe it’s a case of the same number screwdriver not being equal but +/- 1 number gets you back on track, I dunno.
The article definitely isn’t fully selling me on what they’re saying, though. I own a 1986 Ninja 1000 and have done extensive work to it(engine in half, whole bike in pieces at one point) and there was definitely something up with the bolts. I replaced them all with new button-head and socket-head hex bolts and life was much easier.
Tell that to guys with Japanese motorcycles. I still get people bringing me engine parts to remove the messed up screws. It costs real money to get me to fixture those parts in my mill and indicate the hole in and then very carefully remove your stupid.
I usually replaced all the JIS with socket head cap acrews for this reason.
Roberson = square for anyone normal >.>
It’s not a square, it’s better than a square. One of the sides is ever-so-slightly angled, so the screws stick onto the screwdriver before you get them in place.
Torx is good. Robertson is great.
We all learned what a phillips is, so we can learn what a robertson is.
But, yeah, most of us need a reminder for now.
Except apparently Robertson isn’t used anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw
The contemporary square-drive screw has all but replaced the Robertson screw proper and is commonly referred to as a Robertson because it has practically identical drive dimensions and the same colour identification system, but the contemporary square drive socket has parallel sides rather than tapered.
So it is a square drive, not Robertson.
Which is due to simpler and cheaper machining. Properly tapered Robbies are still available, they’re just expensive as fuck and you have to make sure your bit is tapered as well. It’s 1000x easier to seat a Robertson than a square drive, especially if it’s blind.
Robertson = Robertson. “Square-head” is not clear enough, same as saying “hex-head” and not being able to say definitively whether you need an allen key or a socket. It’s not that difficult, just learn things.
I know the proper name, I also know that Benny didn’t finish the 8th grade Smith is going to have no fucking idea what a Robertson is on the job site.
Dumbing the world down for Benny is only hurting the both of you. I truly believe that some people are just shockingly stupid and that’s the end of it but you say Roberston enough times, without being an asshole, and even they will figure it out.
you say Roberston enough times, without being an asshole, and even they will figure it out.
And, if you’re my dad, you say “the red-handled robbie” or “point the damned flashlight at the screw, genius”.
I gave up, people I worked with would call both drills and impact drivers “screw guns”
But he knows what a Philips head is? If he was Canadian, he would know Robertson.
This is wild. They were literally helping people who didn’t know learn.
“Anyone normal” and a side-eye emoji. Not “for the layman” or “in case anyone doesn’t know yet”, but “anyone normal” with attitude.
God, I know literacy levels are in the fucking toilet but are you serious?
Torx plus is different than torx in that the tips are thicker which makes the rounding off much harder to do
But still not impossible. Realize the incompetence of most people.
