I would suggest you focus on outgrowing the need to be proud of your nationality. It’s not necessary to be able to wave a flag happily to live a good life, do good things with your time, and appreciate others who are doing the same.
The second you try to take this to the level of the entire country, and specifically the nation-state itself… now you’re into a whole mess. The US has a lengthy history of atrocities, toppling democracies, massacring innocents, dominating weaker groups… just don’t go there.
A trick is to acknowledge that there’s many alternatives. You can choose to be proud of your state, county, or simply just say “yeah my country is a cunt, so what?” And realize pride of your country doesn’t impact whether or not you’ve been a good, nice, or kind person.
If you’re a birthright citizen, why would you be proud over something you did nothing to achieve? It’s also not your fault, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of either.
It shakes out a little differently if you’re naturalized, but only marginally. That naturalization test isn’t much of a barrier.
Well, you freed the slaves that you had enslaved. I mean, their descendants anyway.
I guess the answer is yes. Some small part of you can be proud to be American again. All you have to do is not think about it too hard, and you could try yelling “Silver Bullet” and shotgunning a Coors Light every now and then. That could maybe act as a stand-in for pride, anyway. C’mon buddy, it’s not that bad…
In all seriousness, individually Americans are pretty good people. Well, a few of the ones I know personally anyway. That’s like a couple of baker’s dozens! That’s something!
Despite having done things that seem dated in other countries, you guys did plenty of good
Just look at all the technological innovation coming from your country that saved a ton of lives (yes you have a spud healthcare system, but these innovations will help humanity for the rest of its existence, they cannot be taken away)
Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in. Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance? I can see being happy or feeling privileged to be an American - that at least suggests what you’re appreciating is that it benefits you. Saying you’re proud implies that being from the USA is some sort of moral success and it’s just not.
Pride is not necessarily personal achievement - sometimes it’s identification or belonging. Our belonging to a group might be random chance, but endorsing the qualities of that group, shaping and participating in that group afterward are all active.
And frankly, no one needs to prove their pride to you. You’re not any kind of arbiter over whether people “deserve” to be proud of something.
“Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in.”
Is it stupid to be proud of a friend when they accomplish something you didn’t help with, just because they are a part of your life and you want to see them succeed? Could that not be extrapolated out to pride in one’s country when it accomplishes something, even if all you directly contributed was your tax money?
“Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance?”
Because the place I was born creates the circumstances in which I was raised, forming the environment that shapes my values, worldview, and culture. I don’t think I should feel like I deserve credit, but why not have pride in knowing that I have the opportunity to carry on the legacy and work that accomplished pride-worthy things in the past?
I don’t know if you want to call it something other than pride, but I’ve never learned another word for what I would feel if John Brown had been my grandfather. It’s not my achievement, nor would I feel entitled to it in any way, but it would make me feel warm and grounded. My actual grandfather was a wife beating alcoholic, and I feel shame about him, even though he died before I was born and I had nothing to do with this.
I think that’s pretty common, even if it’s not logical, which happens a lot with feelings. I know several people whose parent(s) died when they were teenagers and in a period of tension with each other. All agree that the others shouldn’t feel any guilt for being normal teenagers when their parents died, and that the other parents knew they were loved, but most of them still feel as though they themselves had wronged their parents because of their teenagedom.
yea that was really good news. I ment so a small part of me can be proud again to be American?
I would suggest you focus on outgrowing the need to be proud of your nationality. It’s not necessary to be able to wave a flag happily to live a good life, do good things with your time, and appreciate others who are doing the same.
The second you try to take this to the level of the entire country, and specifically the nation-state itself… now you’re into a whole mess. The US has a lengthy history of atrocities, toppling democracies, massacring innocents, dominating weaker groups… just don’t go there.
A trick is to acknowledge that there’s many alternatives. You can choose to be proud of your state, county, or simply just say “yeah my country is a cunt, so what?” And realize pride of your country doesn’t impact whether or not you’ve been a good, nice, or kind person.
If you’re a birthright citizen, why would you be proud over something you did nothing to achieve? It’s also not your fault, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of either.
It shakes out a little differently if you’re naturalized, but only marginally. That naturalization test isn’t much of a barrier.
Well, you freed the slaves that you had enslaved. I mean, their descendants anyway.
I guess the answer is yes. Some small part of you can be proud to be American again. All you have to do is not think about it too hard, and you could try yelling “Silver Bullet” and shotgunning a Coors Light every now and then. That could maybe act as a stand-in for pride, anyway. C’mon buddy, it’s
notthat bad…In all seriousness, individually Americans are pretty good people. Well, a few of the ones I know personally anyway. That’s like a couple of baker’s dozens! That’s something!
The US is the only western country where slavery is still legally practiced.
Why would you be proud to be American?
It was founded on cruelty, and never improved.
The civilised world has always sneered at the US, and for good reason
Despite having done things that seem dated in other countries, you guys did plenty of good
Just look at all the technological innovation coming from your country that saved a ton of lives (yes you have a spud healthcare system, but these innovations will help humanity for the rest of its existence, they cannot be taken away)
Yeah like tomahawk rockets
And RoundUp!
Don’t forget the Big Gulp
Yes, yes we are. We have been for pretty much forever. We fucking suck.
We’re finally learning that it indeed sucks to suck
No reason ever to be.
You don’t think there are any good reasons to be proud of being an American? Why not?
Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in. Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance? I can see being happy or feeling privileged to be an American - that at least suggests what you’re appreciating is that it benefits you. Saying you’re proud implies that being from the USA is some sort of moral success and it’s just not.
I’m sorry but this is incorrect.
Pride is not necessarily personal achievement - sometimes it’s identification or belonging. Our belonging to a group might be random chance, but endorsing the qualities of that group, shaping and participating in that group afterward are all active.
And frankly, no one needs to prove their pride to you. You’re not any kind of arbiter over whether people “deserve” to be proud of something.
Best of luck to you.
I’m proud of being gay. Are you saying I shouldn’t be?
“Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in.” Is it stupid to be proud of a friend when they accomplish something you didn’t help with, just because they are a part of your life and you want to see them succeed? Could that not be extrapolated out to pride in one’s country when it accomplishes something, even if all you directly contributed was your tax money? “Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance?” Because the place I was born creates the circumstances in which I was raised, forming the environment that shapes my values, worldview, and culture. I don’t think I should feel like I deserve credit, but why not have pride in knowing that I have the opportunity to carry on the legacy and work that accomplished pride-worthy things in the past?
I don’t know if you want to call it something other than pride, but I’ve never learned another word for what I would feel if John Brown had been my grandfather. It’s not my achievement, nor would I feel entitled to it in any way, but it would make me feel warm and grounded. My actual grandfather was a wife beating alcoholic, and I feel shame about him, even though he died before I was born and I had nothing to do with this.
I think that’s pretty common, even if it’s not logical, which happens a lot with feelings. I know several people whose parent(s) died when they were teenagers and in a period of tension with each other. All agree that the others shouldn’t feel any guilt for being normal teenagers when their parents died, and that the other parents knew they were loved, but most of them still feel as though they themselves had wronged their parents because of their teenagedom.