The pro-china cucks are so funny lol. So far in the thread I saw:
Yeah people died, but after 20 years of absolute police state, now polls show 90% approval!
Yeah but America is also a police state so it’s fine for China to be a police state, checkmate
Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
The tanks were driving away and didn’t kill anyone this time
Like, just accept the country is a totalitarian police state and killing scores of people was an atrocity. Then talk about how:
17 of the top 20 research institutions are in China, and they’re responsible for more technological breakthroughs than any other country.
China uplifted more human beings from poverty in a single generation than any nation has, ever
China is basically our only hope for saving the human race from the impending climate apocalypse through its conversion to clean energy
(At least until 2027 when they invade Taiwan) China doesn’t bomb and genocide other countries, despite a vastly more powerful military as compared to its neighbors
There’s lots to appreciate. But this sure as fuck ain’t it. You make yourselves look like retards trying to paper this over.
I bet this logic trap goes hard if you’re a fucking moron. To spring it: No, I don’t support Jan 6 insurgents.
I am against any lethal action by governments towards their own citizens. And I don’t support murder or overthrowing governments by force either. So I don’t support insurgents trying to depose governments violently, and also I don’t support police killing people. The ideal situation would be to identify and arrest rioters. Which is, as it turned out, exactly what the US did until the new administration took over.
The idea that rioters attacking and beating people to death should be reasonably countered with expanding bullets, that poles and firebombs are reasonably opposed by rifles, frankly puts you in some sorry moral company. You should take a hard look at yourself if that’s the kind of behavior you condone from a government, under any circumstance. Professional soldiers and law enforcement don’t kill civilians.
Yes dude this is what is so fucking wild to me these idiots pick shit you can easily and verifiably fucking check and see is complete bullshit.
The us does it too, for sure but I’m quick to call that shit out when I see it so why the fuck am I wrong for calling another governments fucked up shit? The ruling class fucking sucks in all the major superpowers of the world - facts are facts. China, USA, Russia all those governments are brutal as fuck in different ways.
However, the shit about China saving the world is for sure dude and that is something I wish would be pushed more because the USA is hellbent on burning the last piece of coal until the very last day of humanity’s existence. They even called the meeting about ending fossil fuels “dangerous” like what the fuck.
The Chinese government is still paying their scientists to fucking_do something about it_ and figure something out at least. They are trying and I respect that. That is for all of humanity. And I agree it would probably gain a lot more support if points like that were focused on more, because those are true.
Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
“Some people” aka insurrectionists were not maybe armed.
These insurrectionists bombed and killed soldiers.
Do you really think that if the Jan 6th tried to stay at the Capitol and would try to prevent the army from entering and also shooting at them that it would not have turned into a bloodbath?
What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country?
Just stand there and take some more?
What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?
You edited your post so I’ll reply again:
The test, which America and China both repeatedly fail, is having professional law enforcement and soldiers kill their own citizens. This is one of the most utter, final failures of government. There are plenty of options besides killing people, and when you take up arms and swear oaths to protect your country, and then kill citizens of your own country, you break your oath.
Your argument fails because there’s no need to actually intercede and halt protests. In the case of the pro-democracy movement crushed by the PLA in June 1989, martial law and attacks on protesters had begun en masse 2 weeks before the massacre. There was a steady escalation of violence leading up to the riots in early june. So the idea that the protestors “struck first” (even if that is a justification, which it isn’t, is false. The facts, which aren’t in dispute, were that the anti-corruption policies implemented to answer the complaints of the protestors were well-received, and further reforms were desired by everyone, not just the student protestors. Everyone except the local officials who were at risk of losing their positions by a government overhaul from authoritarianism to democracy.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Through wiretaps and arrests
Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks
Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
Instead, even though 300,000 people were protesting that period, the actions of an interim commander who acted on poor discipline and leadership, directly lead to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands, of his own people, in a small section of the city. That is a spectacular failure, and the end of a certain degree of human autonomy in China.
This is coming from someone who actually thinks China is leading the world in many ways. I do genuinely believe that China is actually less corrupt than many other nations, and the high degree of social cohesion in-country is something that gives them strength. Like I said in my first post: lots to admire, but this ain’t it.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Through wiretaps and arrests
Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks
Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
A) There was no “massacre”
B) We have no idea if these tactics weren’t also used, and
C) Let’s be honest, if they had done these things and it had worked, you people would never shut the fuck up about that either.
This is just the other bullet points again! I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died. And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government. Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “America Bad so China Fine” is inane.
The pro-china cucks are so funny lol. So far in the thread I saw:
Like, just accept the country is a totalitarian police state and killing scores of people was an atrocity. Then talk about how:
There’s lots to appreciate. But this sure as fuck ain’t it. You make yourselves look like retards trying to paper this over.
Do you support the Jan 6 insurgency, yes or no?
I bet this logic trap goes hard if you’re a fucking moron. To spring it: No, I don’t support Jan 6 insurgents.
I am against any lethal action by governments towards their own citizens. And I don’t support murder or overthrowing governments by force either. So I don’t support insurgents trying to depose governments violently, and also I don’t support police killing people. The ideal situation would be to identify and arrest rioters. Which is, as it turned out, exactly what the US did until the new administration took over.
The idea that rioters attacking and beating people to death should be reasonably countered with expanding bullets, that poles and firebombs are reasonably opposed by rifles, frankly puts you in some sorry moral company. You should take a hard look at yourself if that’s the kind of behavior you condone from a government, under any circumstance. Professional soldiers and law enforcement don’t kill civilians.
“Governments are only meant to kill subhuman foreigners!”
Yes dude this is what is so fucking wild to me these idiots pick shit you can easily and verifiably fucking check and see is complete bullshit.
The us does it too, for sure but I’m quick to call that shit out when I see it so why the fuck am I wrong for calling another governments fucked up shit? The ruling class fucking sucks in all the major superpowers of the world - facts are facts. China, USA, Russia all those governments are brutal as fuck in different ways.
However, the shit about China saving the world is for sure dude and that is something I wish would be pushed more because the USA is hellbent on burning the last piece of coal until the very last day of humanity’s existence. They even called the meeting about ending fossil fuels “dangerous” like what the fuck.
The Chinese government is still paying their scientists to fucking_do something about it_ and figure something out at least. They are trying and I respect that. That is for all of humanity. And I agree it would probably gain a lot more support if points like that were focused on more, because those are true.
“Some people” aka insurrectionists were not maybe armed.
These insurrectionists bombed and killed soldiers.
Do you really think that if the Jan 6th tried to stay at the Capitol and would try to prevent the army from entering and also shooting at them that it would not have turned into a bloodbath?
You edited your post so I’ll reply again: The test, which America and China both repeatedly fail, is having professional law enforcement and soldiers kill their own citizens. This is one of the most utter, final failures of government. There are plenty of options besides killing people, and when you take up arms and swear oaths to protect your country, and then kill citizens of your own country, you break your oath.
Your argument fails because there’s no need to actually intercede and halt protests. In the case of the pro-democracy movement crushed by the PLA in June 1989, martial law and attacks on protesters had begun en masse 2 weeks before the massacre. There was a steady escalation of violence leading up to the riots in early june. So the idea that the protestors “struck first” (even if that is a justification, which it isn’t, is false. The facts, which aren’t in dispute, were that the anti-corruption policies implemented to answer the complaints of the protestors were well-received, and further reforms were desired by everyone, not just the student protestors. Everyone except the local officials who were at risk of losing their positions by a government overhaul from authoritarianism to democracy.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Instead, even though 300,000 people were protesting that period, the actions of an interim commander who acted on poor discipline and leadership, directly lead to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands, of his own people, in a small section of the city. That is a spectacular failure, and the end of a certain degree of human autonomy in China.
This is coming from someone who actually thinks China is leading the world in many ways. I do genuinely believe that China is actually less corrupt than many other nations, and the high degree of social cohesion in-country is something that gives them strength. Like I said in my first post: lots to admire, but this ain’t it.
A) There was no “massacre”
B) We have no idea if these tactics weren’t also used, and
C) Let’s be honest, if they had done these things and it had worked, you people would never shut the fuck up about that either.
This is just the other bullet points again! I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died. And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government. Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “America Bad so China Fine” is inane.