Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
This comment section is a shit show. Be respectful of each other next time please. Locked.
“I was just obeying the German laws” was not a credible defense in the Nürnberg trials, why are you repeating the same logic as the Nazis?
You know that “Anschuldigungen” aka. allegations can turn out to be true, right?? 🤯🤯
Also they seem like good little Germans for enthusiastically following orders pre-emptively and overinterpreting them 🫡🫡🫡
Echo chambers make you stupid.
Which is why db0 defederated from the Zionazi echo chamber.
What would be the point of federating with an instance which simply bans anti-Zionism? There is no way to convince feddit users since their mods enforce the German Zionist viewpoint.
Another user mentioned that feddit.org may have been consistently censoring anti-Zionist voices. If that’s true it would make this a lot more reasonable in my view. However the post doesn’t seem to explicitly make this claim, so I am curious if it’s true. It left me with the impression that they were defederating mainly due to the presence of some Zionist users on the instance, which seems a very excessive response when the ability to ban individual users exists.
Oh, yeah, “They removed my comment where I’m just an asshole and telling people to kill themselves, they are such zionists 😭”
The fuck is wrong with you guys?
Yeah, the good old “You are a Nazi for following rules”-thing. Because everyone who follows rules does so indly, except for oneself.
One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.”
- Martin Luther King Jr. in Birmingham Jail 1963
How would you categorize the community rules “Be nice to each other”, “Don’t insult each other” and “Don’t call for violence”? Just or unjust, dair or unfair, sensible or dumb, expedient or not?
How would you categorize the feddit.org admin using a snark comm to get people to send DM harrassment to users who upvoted the feddit.org defederation thread?
is that ‘being nice’?
Why the whataboutism? Please answer my question and do not answer with whataboutism or the discussion is over.
you started the whataboutism with 'what about the community rules"
please answer my question and do not answer with whataboutism or the discussion is over.
I followed your link. It shows a comment you made, yet with another link to a comment by Emopunker@feddit.org. And you claim that they harass people. The comment by Emopunker shows a screenshot where three usernames are listed that share similarities. Emopunker says that they have the suspicion that the shown users are the same person with alt accounts.
In conclusion: I wonder whether you forgot to attach some context, because based on this alone I don’t see anything that support your claims.
In the thread I linked the thread op and several others were complaining about DM harrassment.
That was happening immidiately after emopunker decided to post the names of three upvoters of the defederation thread in meanwhileongrad, while the vote was still happening.
It’s a pretty straightforward chain of events, if you’re insisting on seeing nothing I think the problem is between your keyboard and your chair
Easy: unjust, unfair, dumb.
Nazis easily pretend to be the nice people following the rules and if you get angry you’re the bad one. Don’t be nice to Nazis. Yell at them, insult them, punch them. Enforcing laws to protect oppressors is nothing more than protecting oppressors. “The only legitimate violence is state violence” and all that propaganda.
The Nazis are the ones breaking the “be nice” rule in the first place, they just do it while speaking nicely, they talk about enforcing rules and protecting order, but somehow they always dodge the question of how many people their order is killing. That’s not being nice. The rule is only there to forbid you for fighting back.
If you think that the “be nice” rule should punish calls to take down Israel or contest german support for the genocide, but not punish that same support for the genocide because it’s nice and polite… You’re just protecting the genocide. It doesn’t matter if anti-genocide comments are not nice enough for you - they shouldn’t have to be nice. Especially not when the German government literally makes it illegal to denounce Israel, even nicely.
A “be nice” rule is bad when there’s another rule that says it’s illegal to denounce genocide.
Cool non-answer. What part of civility rules typical across lemmy such as dbzer0’s own
Don’t be shitty. i.e. telling people to kill themselves, or bad-jacketing is bannable.
allows exceptions for unhinged promotion of violence against commenters whom we unreasonably allege or “bad-jacket” as Zionist? Uncivil denunciations of Zionism are uncivil; therefore, moderators enforcing civility must prosecute. No evidence was given the moderators penalize civil denunciations of Zionism. Enforcing civility doesn’t imply Zionism.
This is basic logic. Denying basic logic implies staggering stupidity or dishonesty.
Dbzer0 civility rules aim to protect marginalized people from harassment. feddit.org’s are being deployed to protect Zionism from criticism while tone-policing Palestinians and their allies. These aren’t the same thing just because they both use the word ‘civility.’
feddit isn’t exactly enforcing civility neutrally. They’re silencing anti-Zionism while treating Zionist positions as the default that deserves civil engagement. That’s a political choice with the fig leaf of ‘just following
ordersthe law’, hardly ‘basic logic’. But thanks for explaining to a silly girl like me
Aside from the fact that following the law should be an understandable concession to wanting your instance to continue existing:
I don’t think I’ve seen any Anti-Palestine sentiment there. I’m also pretty sure most of us are on the same page about Zionism. This dispute is about the way that we express it, which is being framed as defending it and compared to actively perpetrating genocide.
There is a significant difference between following laws about hatespeech and following orders to actually murder people. Erasing all nuance doesn’t help the actual discourse about what we all agree is systematic genocide against the Palestinian people.
The regular: too much internet, not enough grass being touched.
Such a stupid move…
It’s sad to see dbzer0 slowly creeping towards authoritarianism. This is exactly the kind of reason I couoldn’t entertain making it my primary instance unfortunately.
Nah, it was decided with a vote. The majority in that server wanted Feddit blocked and that’s what came.
Ah yes because nothing authoritarian was ever implemented through a vote…
Personally, I voted against on my db0 account, the top voted comments explain pretty thoroughly why.
Voting to block a domain and having that domain blocked isn’t comparable to electing an authoritarian leader. Dbzer0 can choose who to and not to federate with. Users who don’t like that move to another instance easily.
Voting to block a domain and having that domain blocked isn’t comparable to electing an authoritarian leader.
Nobody has said that? What it does is remove the choice from each individual, which is authoritarian, even if done via majority vote. There was nothing stopping those who wanted the domain blocked to do that themselves.
Nobody removed your choice to change servers
It’s literally part of the point of the fediverse that you can pick hosts who agree with you, who can apply moderation and bans you agree with on your behalf, and if you disagree you move and bring people with you if you can convince them
Nobody removed your choice to change servers
Further evidenced by the fact they’re posting from their non-db0 account after saying they voted on the topic with their db0 account.
It’s kind of a weird argument considering lemmy.world has also blocked other instances, and (correct me if I’m wrong) without a vote on it.
.world was already bad, doesn’t stop me from being disappointed when one of the instances I liked more gets worse.
You are indeed correct. Lemmy.world is less democratic than dbzer0.
Hell world wouldn’t even punish a mod for rule breaking behavior
Yet another example of why the abstract concept of “authoritarianism” is useless. In this case, the people of dbzer0 decided democratically to wield their authority to defederate from an instance with an explicit Zionist problem. It isn’t the defederation that’s the problem in the abstract, or the authority, it’s the fact that this authority was used against Zionists.
about the later’s Zionist Bar Problem
I’d prefer to have a less biased title for this thread because this is a very one-sided point of view and just parrots what the db0 admin claims without questioning them.
Edit: Thanks for putting it in quotation marks, OP.
Disappointing how many downvotes you have, especially given zero other responses thus far. You’ve got a valid point, and the mod/admin teams at db0 already have their own behavior issues, so there’s surely more to the story than this.
so there’s surely more to the story than this.
I mean in addition to instances zionism the feddit.org admin used a troll comm to called out several users for the crime of upvoting the defed thread, and then those users started getting DM harassment
Love how someone is using that exact same mwog thread to show how the feddit admin was wronged
Look, they get to advocate for genocide and mass murder, but if you ask them to stop, they’re the real victims!
It’s a pretty emotional topic for a lot of people, so I’m not surprised. Still, I’d advise everyone who downvotes to at least take a look at what the other side has to say. This thread has a feddit.org mod comment on the situation:
Interesting that finally there starts to be some reprecusions for the Germans being so pro genocide. I know it’s a very small gesture in a very nish social media but I’m happy about it neverthe less.
A simplified world view is really tempting sometimes. What if I told you that fighting anti semitism and being pro genocide are two things that can be distinguished from each other?
tying the criticism of pissraeli state with antisemitism in general is antisemitic. “my fellow jewish people must be supportive of a genocidal settler colonial state” is a bad look that’ll bite the propagandists in the ass in the future and i feel sorry for the jewish people getting caught ip in that.
Bro shut your fucking zionist mouth up. Nobody likes you and nobody gives a flying fuck about your excuses for the pedo genocidal murder country. Stuff your holes with wrustels and stfu.
Sorry, but this is not how you talk to people.
What is a good alternative instance for me that is not supporting Zionism, but also not db0 as I feel some of the communities on feddit.org don’t really have the Zionism problem?
You could use an instance that federates widely (such as lemmy.zip) if you want to be able to interact with as many communities as possible.
I will try that, thanks for the suggestion.
Dude, how can you be any more based
I think this is a stupid move, but it shows the shitty mindset, that evolved on db0. Bye!
The shitty mindset of checks notes not wanting Zionist fascists in a queer-friendly online space.
Showing your true colours here.
This thread even 18 hrs later:
I’m just wondering how long the mods or world admins let it go. Usually they kill things like this quickly unless it’s something attacking ml
It has created some funny interactions, the best part is that it still has one more day left in the all/active tab
Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there).
Thank you for recognizing statesia my ego gets a little wonky if it goes unnoticed
Notice how the ragebait, communication destroying comments and got’chas are coming from a handful of users in this thread (Cowbee, Riverside, etc.) Ask yourself why they would want to separate the left and who benefits from that.
Edit: ah and like clockwork, the “I now want to communicate reasonably” spiel. Not falling for that one.
Wow seems like all the bad actors got caught by this.
Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance. Without that lie all of the agitators “arguments” crumble to the sad leftist-dividing dust that they are.
Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.
Also, as a tip: don’t answer the trolls and agitators. Leave them hanging, screaming into the wind.
If you allow people defending a supermasist ideology like zionism than you are a zionist bar simple as that
Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance. Without that lie all of the agitators “arguments” crumble to the sad leftist-dividing dust that they are.
“They’re not zionist, they just defend Israel’s right to exist.”
They are zionists and so are you. You’re also a dishonest coward who replies to people through edits and hopes they don’t notice. Death to “Israel” and death to the Federal Republic of Germany.
Edit:
Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.
Also, as a tip: don’t answer the trolls and agitators. Leave them hanging, screaming into the wind.
You are literally answering me, lmao. Well, not really, you’re actually replying to things I didn’t say.
You’re not a leftist.
Lol, imagine trying to argue that Cowbee is rage baiting and destroying communications. The most serious case of projection I’ve even seen
Defending pissrael is zionism. Anything short of “Death to pissrael” is zionism. Sorry I don’t make the rules, I merely enforce them.
The soyjack “I was just following orders” vs the chad
Sorry I don’t make the rules, I merely enforce them.
cops under a DotB vs cops under a DotP
Can you elaborate on how I’m doing “ragebait” or posting “communicatuon destroying comments and got’chas?” I oppose Zionism, I think that’s fairly clear.
Response to your edit: I have always done my best to communicate reasonably. What I find happening frequently is when the rare person claims I am being dishonest or not genuine, upon confrontation they simply ignore what I have to say, or answer in a snide half-response like this one.
Response to yet another edit:
Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance. Without that lie all of the agitators “arguments” crumble to the sad leftist-dividing dust that they are.
Feddit.org harbors Zionism at the admin-level. The criticisms are indeed based on the idea that Feddit.org is a Zionist bar, and simply calling that a lie doesn’t debunk that.
Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.
Also, as a tip: don’t answer the trolls and agitators. Leave them hanging, screaming into the wind.
Equating the state of Israel and its right to exist with preventing genocide of Israelis is Zionism. Calling us trolls, and saying we are doing “ragebait” and “got’chas” while you quite literally are doing that right here and now is peak hypocricy.
You are literally the most reasonable communicator on the fediverse, lmao.
Thanks! What’s funny is I’ve seen these “edit responses” before, people don’t expect to be questioned on statements they make about others by the people in question, I suppose.
It’s pretty gross behavior.
Yep, I agree.
Zionists are not on the left
Death to America
Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance.
Well, I think this is where the “Nazi Bar” metaphor comes into play. I think its defensible for db0 to clearly say, and they had a debate, provided evidence, etc…, that feddit.org clearly has a Zionist problem. We could argue with their process, evidence etc… but we can’t disagree that they did have a process, provided evidence, etc…
Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.
I mean isn’t that the point? Feddit is turning a blind eye to this when it comes from a specific, narrow ideological group. The argument being made is that Feddit is either defending or turning a blind eye to one specific group of people who are ideological advocates for genocide because they do it on behalf of Israel.
And to be clear and I’ve said this elsewhere. I don’t think you leave a Nazi (in this metaphor, Zionists) bar to the Nazis. If you find out that a group of Nazi’s walked into the bar you are in, you collect your group of friends at your table, and you walk over and start a fight. Don’t give them an inch.
I think the argument here is that if you don’t want to be known as a instance supporting genocide and fascism, you have some work to do.
This solidifies my decision for migrating my account from there to piefed.social. Not because I support those views but because this means that many of the communities I’m subscribed to won’t be visible anymore from there. Personally I’ve not seen the problem in the mentioned communities but I also don’t actively participate in deep political discussions especially regarding Israel/Palestine since I don’t have the energy for that.
You know you can just have multiple accounts on multiple instances, right? That gets you just about as full a view on the Fediverse as you might want. Heck, the only reason I’m not doing it is because I’m lazy.
Also, whining about db0 then moving to the instance that literally implements CCP politics and shadow profiling and comes from a dev known to have had a chip against heteronormativity and weirdness (if not against neurodivergence) is… not the win you think it is.
so which fediverse platform dev isn’t evil?
Heck if I know, but at least we know of the ones who are (eg.: feddit.org are “good German soldiers”).
Also, whining about db0 then moving to the instance that literally implements CCP politics and shadow profiling and comes from a dev known to have had a chip against heteronormativity and weirdness (if not against neurodivergence) is… not the win you think it is.
Can you provide some sources for that?
Counterpoints:
- regarding “CCP politics and shadow profiling”, it’s referring to a few content filters that Piefed can do, but they are disabled by default and are all configurable: https://piefed.zip/c/fediverse/p/1005977/piefed-admin-settings-that-allow-to-enable-or-disable-content-filters-they-are-disabled-by#post_replies
- regarding “a chip against heteronormativity and weirdness”, https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ is using Piefed, which they probably wouldn’t do it the dev was a bigot. Also, pronouns are built-in the platform.
If you want to know a bit more about Rimu, the main Piefed dev, he made an interview a couple of months ago: https://tubefree.org/w/jLPZXv1Jynv7LRcuoteARf
He’s usually quite nice and helpful. That’s not always the case with people who try to spread disinformation about Piefed.
lol so you join the place with the social credit score
What is that?
piefed.social keeps a hidden trust score that goes down when people do stuff the piefed dev personally doesn’t like. there was recently a bunch of drama about it
Technically, it’s an astrospam measure.
No they use something else for that, ie limit what new accounts can do.
The credit score is just doing things the dev doesn’t like/shouldn’t be done
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
There’s nothing in that post about ❝credit scores.❞ Karma is what threadiverse uses to evaluate posts, comments, communties, and accounts.
There is attitude and reputation
