One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that “an unjust law is no law at all.”

• Martin Luther King Jr. in Birmingham Jail 1963

Dbzer0 civility rules aim to protect marginalized people from harassment. feddit.org’s are being deployed to protect Zionism from criticism while tone-policing Palestinians and their allies. These aren’t the same thing just because they both use the word ‘civility.’

feddit isn’t exactly enforcing civility neutrally. They’re silencing anti-Zionism while treating Zionist positions as the default that deserves civil engagement. That’s a political choice with the fig leaf of ‘just following orders the law’, hardly ‘basic logic’. But thanks for explaining to a silly girl like me

Heck if I know, but at least we know of the ones who are (eg.: feddit.org are “good German soldiers”).

Counterpoints:

• regarding “CCP politics and shadow profiling”, it’s referring to a few content filters that Piefed can do, but they are disabled by default and are all configurable: https://piefed.zip/c/fediverse/p/1005977/piefed-admin-settings-that-allow-to-enable-or-disable-content-filters-they-are-disabled-by#post_replies
• regarding “a chip against heteronormativity and weirdness”, https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ is using Piefed, which they probably wouldn’t do it the dev was a bigot. Also, pronouns are built-in the platform.

If you want to know a bit more about Rimu, the main Piefed dev, he made an interview a couple of months ago: https://tubefree.org/w/jLPZXv1Jynv7LRcuoteARf

He’s usually quite nice and helpful. That’s not always the case with people who try to spread disinformation about Piefed.

I don’t think you have bad intent here, but I think Riverside didn’t like the implication that “deep political discussions” are necessary to understand that “Israel/Palestine” is in fact “the colonial genocide of Palestinians by Israel”. I think that’s fair. It’s OK to not want to discuss politics online, but you don’t need “deep discussions” to know that colonialism is always wrong.

piefed.social keeps a hidden trust score that goes down when people do stuff the piefed dev personally doesn’t like. there was recently a bunch of drama about it

In Germany, disapproving of Israel is considered an unacceptably nuanced take on whether the holocaust was bad. That’s literally the legislative basis that feddit’s moderation is required to comply with. Germany, through it’s anti-Nazi and anti-genocide-denial policies, trapped its people in a situation where they are unable to condemn another genocide.

Authoritarian draconic standards are bullshit. Nuance can be used to overdamp the response to wrongdoing, but its absence can also leave responses underdamped, and assholes can selectively overdamp and underdamp responses in specific categories to serve their own interests. (A clear example is how wind turbines need to go through a lot of red tape to address the concerns of everyone in a wide area while meat industry farms can poison people without issue).

If we want justice, we have to be able to fight against these assholes in both directions - reducing the damping of overdamped systems to allow us to fight genocide effectively even when it doesn’t serve the interests of the powerful, while also increasing the damping of underdamped systems to prevent the powerful from oppressing people using fighting genocide as an excuse.

So yes, we do need nuanced takes on “whether genocide is bad”, sometimes. Other times these “nuanced takes” are indeed ploys to hold back appropriate responses. Which is which is going to depend on the specific situation.

In this case, feddit is complying with German law and policy to go to bat for Zionism, so their “nuance” can get fucked.

The favorite word of Germans is apparently “nuance”, but I think it’s a close competition with “untermensch” and “herrenvolk”.

My favorite part is pointing out that most israelis are not white westerners, but from other middle eastern countries who were fleeing persecution in those countries and are more arab than western in terms of ethnicity and history.

But that doesn’t fit the nice narrative that all Israelis are white colonlizer/invaders from europe or something. Literally never had it acknowledged once, just denied and told that it is zionist propaganda.

You should have been bullied more in school.

Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.

Spoken like someone that condemned the ANC as terrorists in the 80’s.

“Sure, apartheid is wrong, but the people suffering it and fighting it are the worst” <— you.

The German left, at least the loud one, is public ally dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.

This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.

That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions.

Thank you again for clarifying which side of this choice you are on.

It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.

ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it’ll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers

“Is genocide bad? Who can say, it’s just so complex!”

Saying Hamas is antisemitic is sure fire sign of being a Zionist.

Palestinians are a semitic people.

If you want to saw that Hamas hates Jews, well, when your entire life has been being bombed by planes with stars of David on them, while jackbooted thugs with stars of David on their shoulder kick in your door to kidnap your family members in the night, and settlers with star of David necklaces show up and claim your home and land by divine right, I can start to see where you develop feelings toward the people who carry the same sign.

Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim as they are so fucking desperate to do.

Don’t be discouraged. Personally I don’t have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these “leftist” ignoramuses whose obsession with “Zionism” leads them to support literal fascism) but it’s important that somebody makes the points you’re making.

Nope.

Liberalism was the original leftism: see the French revolutionary National Assembly. It doesn’t intrinsically have anything to do with capitalism. In general, liberalism is neither left nor right. It promotes individualism. Historically, it progressed from humanism.

leftism begins at anti-capitalism

Not the political science definition.

General definitions & the historical development of liberalism are academic.

liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty.

Some of the earliest liberal practices are found in the US Declaration of Independence, which predates the French revolution spreading the practice of liberal ideals throughout Europe. The US declaration pretty much rehashes core tenets of liberal philosophy

• inherent equality of individuals
• universal individual rights & liberties
• consent of the governed (governments exist for the people who have a right to change & replace them, & authority is legitimate only when it protects those liberties).

Note how capitalism isn’t mentioned anywhere: it’s nonessential. Capitalism predates & isn’t liberalism. Liberalism is moral & political philosophy, not an economic one.

The philosophy is a natural progression of humanist philosophies from the Renaissance through the Protestant Reformation & the Enlightenment that stress the importance of individuality, secular reasoning, & tolerance over dogma & subservience to unaccountable authority. To address unaccountable authority based on dogma & traditions, English & French philosophers defined legitimate authority based on humanist morality pretty much as expressed in the US declaration. They argued that political systems thrive better with limits & duties on authority & an adversarial system of institutional competition whether in separation of powers, adversarial law system with habeas corpus & right to jury trial, competitive elections, dialogue, or economic competition.

Sometimes the further left extremes I’ve heard hear are indistinguishable from conservative Q-Anon. I legitimately need to check users post histories to understand which extreme they are on

Yes

I would argue that this would be the minority of users, not the majority.

I don’t see how it’s bad faith to call an instance that has taken a stance in favor of a genocide "genocide apologist. They are doing genocide apologia. If you aren’t a genocide apologist, you should leave the genocide apologist instance, same as leaving the nazi bar if you aren’t a nazi.

.world user here, I am defending them. Are they a lost cause because they don’t support mass murder or are they are lost cause because they support international justice?

No? I hope not, or joining DB0 would be a completely strange action. But you seem to think that their explicit rules on Zionism would not mean that they would act on a zionist-bar-like instance.

Voting to block a domain and having that domain blocked isn’t comparable to electing an authoritarian leader. Dbzer0 can choose who to and not to federate with. Users who don’t like that move to another instance easily.