Edit: just looked closer and noticed that this is almost entirely the executive team. Duh. Obviously execs are overpaid as hell but for the size of Signal and the average exec pay this is hardly surprising
Tbh I’d much rather the money go to the employees than to shady stakeholders/investors
I feel like the takeaway here is that this is how much people SHOULD be getting paid and most of the time the rest is getting siphoned off by the capital class
-
talk shit about a bad group chat app
-
angry group chat descends on shittalking
-
none of them have background information on Signal leaking metadata and even the entire message contents in some cases
-
mindless NGO executive worship
-
everyone clarifies they don’t value their privacy in the first place
We will be doing this again next week. It’s lovely. Nobody seems to understand the downside of demonstrating an entire community has zero combined expertise by demanding spoon-fed information instantly. Lacking any sources that could criticize Signal.
Do you think it could be related to sanitizing your websites with “anti-disinformation” strategies lifted directly from the people who spy on you & your family? No, no, that’s too far out. Inductive reasoning is impossible. You know this.
-
What is going on with all of these people saying CEO’s or other employees deserve to live comfortably? The average salary in the US is like $64,000 the median is more like $38,000. What kind of person could possibly do the work of 10 or almost 20 (depending on weather you prefer median or average) regular people? If people should be payed based off how much work they do this is not a reasonable amount.
people saying CEOs*
I barely use social media at all besides lemmy and the level of smarmy belligerence you’ve used throughout this thread makes me wanna download signal out of spite.
Maybe take a day off mang.
deleted by creator
adb is currently main developer for a fork of Delta Chat, a messenger that actually gives you privacy.
you got your messenger recommendation from congresspeople. think about that for a second and how it makes you look to technically competent people like us
But you do realize that DeltaChat also received a quite significant amount of money from the US Open Technology Fund over its course of development and to this day it is somewhat unclear how they fund what seems to be several full time developers?
Lol, I notice he didn’t say anything in reply to this.
deleted by creator
Nice argument dude, unfortunately I don’t share your tendency to form parasocial relationships with US government-funded “privacy software” and prefer recommending open source projects utilizing extensible internet standards for longevity + reliability, so I’m unlikely to be convinced by your playground “what is he your boyfriend” antics. You’re clearly suffering from some serious cognitive dissonance, so take a step back. I don’t know you, I shared this with the community publicly in the hopes people can defend themselves better against surveillance. What motivates you, seriously? Why turn to personal attack? How did you end up at this point in your life?
My advice is learn how to take advice from people who know better than you. It can change your life, and it’s important for operating in communities that value authority from expertise rather than business jargon and ideological slapfighting.
LMAO @ everyone who would have denied this was true groveling at the feet of the US government’s spectacularly abd inexplicably generous Open Technology Fund after devoting 3000 comments to bashing what remains of Firefox for [checks notes] making the UI better so the community doesn’t need to spend their time making sidebars and vertical tabs… You guys are worms. Today I get to be the rock. 🥴
It’s a branch of the US military-intelligence-propaganda-industrial complex. Or was—I’m not sure if Trump’s executive order to eliminate it stuck.
JDPON Don strikes again. People got their hopes up too much when he acted like he was axing USAID programs. Just a change of management and perhaps some messaging.
US and the West are ‘managed’ by elite psychopaths that don’t give a shit about ordinary peoples ‘privacy’ or similar fancy tools for the wage-slaves. They have used these tools to try and break through specific nations/groups information defenses. ANYTHING sponsored by the US Oligarchy is either a part of local US control, or an attempt at reaching more people with rich-man propaganda in nations that defend themselves against US lies and color-revolutions…
I don’t know the intricacies of signal as a company or if they support any bad actors or whatnot, but I do hate to see flack for non-profit leaders and employees getting paid competitive salaries. Like if people are actually worth that much in the economy, why not try to stack the team so they’re incentivized to do well? Especially in the shit pot that is America.
I would be curious to see the spread of overhead between salaries and fundraising, outreach, etc to actually get their product out there. Because if those are balanced in favor toward actually running the business, marketing it well, and fundraising, I’d say these people more than deserve these salaries.
The company asks for donations while receiving funding from the US government and scraping metadata from activists. You people are absolute marks.
and scraping metadata from activists
You have proof on that?
and scraping metadata from activists.
And what does it have to with this?
I mean yes, it’s not ideal that they require a phone number. But how does that translate to metadata scrapping and especially from activists?
deleted by creator
CEOs need to be constantly threatened with execution by a dictatorship of the proletariat
Also maybe no stock options like other corps? So more salary compensation
Meanwhile Discord in it’s entirety is unencrypted
To be fair, Discord has e2e encrypted voice calls using their “Dave” protocol.
well well well, this is news to me… but c’mon it’s like an abuser decided to be nice for once xD (not enough)
Dude, don’t start
I can’t believe that worked. Well, it’s a good thing we have more than three options
They’re still far more encrypted than literally every other alternative.
You people have zero awareness of the limitations of your own knowledge.
Ugh. I’ve always liked Matrix (and was not bothered too much by the metadata leaks because my home server was not federated anyways), but after noticing some issues and finally reading up on the actual protocol spec a couple of weeks ago… oof. Yeah. No.
Set up XMPP for now. Works really well and the protocol seems so much saner. Unfortunately, it too has some annoyances that are unacceptable to me in the long term. I’m this close to saying “fuck it” and wasting the next couple of years of my life on a new protocol that no one is gonna use. (Cue the XKCD here.)
Works really well and the protocol seems so much saner.
Ha, thanks, I’d already read that. And I do, mostly, agree; the OMEMO implementation is not great both from the security perspective discussed in the post, as well as the UX (not being able to decrypt old messages on new devices at all).
That being said, I primarily want a selfhosted, federated messenger which also takes privacy and security seriously, and at least for the former, XMPP is really refreshingly good.
Yeah no shit you already read it they post it every single time. I don’t think any of them have actually read it, the problems he is complaining about were solved ages ago or by two clicks, once. The guy actually argues for people to use Telegram because they have disabilities and software is hard. An absolute masterclass.
I want to point out that the author of that linked blog, Soatok, actually removed a response in the comments from an OMEMO developer which clarified some things, which personally I think was rather odd/bad faith of them to do. When asked about it, this was their response:
“I’ll make an edit later about the protocol version thing, but I’m not interested in having questions answered. My entire horse in this race is for evangelists to f** off and leave me alone. That’s it. That’s all I want.”
According to the OMEMO developer in his response (you can it read here), there’s nothing really wrong with OMEMO 0.3.0, as the dev considers it a stable standard that clients can safely implement, with newer versions basically being public beta releases toward a stable ‘OMEMO 2’ standard that can eventually replace 0.3.0.
I didn’t know about this response, thank you for pointing it out. However, this response fails to address the main criticism of the XMPP+ONEMO:
To understand why this is true, you only need check whether OMEMO is on by default (it isn’t), or whether OMEMO can be turned off even if your client supports it (it can).
Both of these conditions fail the requirements I outlined under the End-to-End Encryption header in that other blog post.
And that’s all that I should have needed to say on the matter.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA https://lemmy.ml/comment/24436351
I FUCKING KNEW IT YOU PEOPLE ONLY KNOW THAT ONE BLOG
What blog?
I’m this close to saying “fuck it” and wasting the next couple of years of my life on a new protocol that no one is gonna use.
This article does a good job exploring the landscape of text chats, and ultimately finds that XMPP is still our best bet, it just needs some spit and polish.
Funny, I’ve also already read that 😄 Good blog and article.
You should also link Ariadne’s post saying she rather use signal, but that would be against the tone of your post, right?
https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/116043045098562878
Yes, posting wrong opinions would be against the theme of the post, and in fact my account as a whole. That’s pretty standard for programmers who wear bunny suits. If we keep going here one of them is going to show up and post that Soatok person’s blog.
Got it, you’re just here to bait people.
I’m here to educate people, not nitpick people and try to pass off my low standards for “secure software” and US government-dependent NGOs as an interest in sustainable OPSEC.
Sallaries should act as a motivator for better leadership, so these wages, at least in norwegian context, seems to be too high, too corrupting.
Unbearable: This was the last time i donated to signal. Next time i’ll donate to some small foss-projects.
is the argument they shouldn’t be paid money for their work? or maybe signal shouldn’t be hiring at competitive salaries for highly skilled labor?
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary, the executives are paid more. And you will not in a million years convince me that corporate suits are doing skilled work in a way to deserve more compensation than people actually making the product.
that’s a fair comment I don’t know what they do either.
having seen a few of these org charts this could be much worse. there are 4 salaries related to software and technical improvements of the app and platform.
most ppl underestimate what kind of infrastructure is required to make anything work at planet scale, including auxiliary functions. I’d be much more interested in where the funding is coming from.
Their job is to ensure the nonprofit doesn’t suddenly start making something which can actually help them hide from the US government. Which would be possible since they have the talent.
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary,
Unsurprisingly.
What a scam…
Hey guys I help orphans on a non profit, I’m a very good person. BTW I get paid 1M a year
I would really love for some of the people here talking about how it’s a good thing this “talent” is retained to explain what it is exactly these people do. I am 100% certain they hate these people in their own companies. But somehow when they see it in an NGO corporate structure it’s all sunshine and daisies.
Non profits are not charities.
These salaries are quite low in the tech sector.
How does this compare to salaries for comparable positions at comparable for-profit companies?
It’s kinda the point of donations that they can afford to hire people whose labor costs that much.
Isn’t 1M per year upper middle class in america now?
Damn, I don’t think I’ll make 1M in my lifetime combined.
That’s because you live in Europe and stretching a month’s paycheck is easier than a week’s and the Euro is an strogner currency with better anti-gouging laws.
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
Even 10k euro per month is a lot and will be far better than most other people in Europe and allow you to live more than comfortably.
70k euros a month is insane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
My nephew, uncle and I have all had medical bills at $1M each
Oh look the Americans are here to pretend that highly-paid tech workers are normal human beings. I wonder if that has anything to do with the demographics of the Reddit-fuelled Hitler instances. Worth consideration. 🤔
I’ve been reading this thread for way too long looking for you to post a single fucking link or source for your claims. You’ve typed thousands of words and 99% of them are insults to people that are just asking where you got these ideas from. Looks like you’re only purpose is to slam signal without proof. Why?
What would be the downside if all companies were non-profit? At first sight, it sounds like a great idea.
Some companies will be invisible and/or “boring” - nobody ever said: “Oh, I just love my office building’s cleaning supplies delivery contractor, I should donate them again!”
To be fair non-profit doesn’t mean you can’t charge for your services. You just can’t pay profit out as dividends so there’s no incentive to overcharge.
Yes, I understand, but with the same example - I see how people can fing it interesting/motivating building a service like signal, but if I ever opened a b2b household chemistry supply company, I doubt I would be ok if it worked as a nonprofit - what’s in it for me, except money?
Just answering the question: “Why doesn’t everybody move to nonprofit model?”You can still pay yourself a salary. But true, I don’t see why you’d go nonprofit for b2b things. Idea of a nonprofit is usually to benefit the community, by giving customers fair prices instead of skimming a bunch off the top - why bother doing that for b2b when it just increases other businesses margins
The conventional answer is that there would be much less incentive to fund new ones.
Some things need a large investment to start: power plants, cities, factories, space stations, etc. Sometimes more money than the people involved can afford, and you need to ask someone to front the money, they typically get paid with a share of the profits.
Thanks, that sounds very reasonable.
The problem is that NGOs and charities are just a way for capital to manage social stability and will never have that kind of expansiveness. It’s like trying to build socialism by starting worker cooperatives in a bourgeois democracy.
What would be the downside if the world was made of pudding
It would collapse on itself, unable to carry its own weight, heating up massively. I consider superheated pudding volcanos something of a downside, personally. I cannot reasonably estimate what might happen in the centre of the world, supercritical fluid doesn’t seem enough. Perhaps nanodiamond crystallisation from the organic parts of the pudding? Also lots of hydrogen release, I’d guess.
My suggestions involves only change of the legal framework. Besides, there are non-profit companies. I’m not sure about details, but for example Velux (windows manufacturer) and Carl Zeiss (optics) are supposed to be non-profits, and Anthropic could say no to the DoD because it’s some sort of not-just-for-profit company.
Is that good?
Raising enough money to pay its employees and expand, but not the most you can without regard to anything else? Sonds like an interesting idea to explore. Or are you talking about super-dense pudding?
