Edit: just looked closer and noticed that this is almost entirely the executive team. Duh. Obviously execs are overpaid as hell but for the size of Signal and the average exec pay this is hardly surprising
Tbh I’d much rather the money go to the employees than to shady stakeholders/investors
I feel like the takeaway here is that this is how much people SHOULD be getting paid and most of the time the rest is getting siphoned off by the capital class
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talk shit about a bad group chat app
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angry group chat descends on shittalking
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none of them have background information on Signal leaking metadata and even the entire message contents in some cases
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mindless NGO executive worship
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everyone clarifies they don’t value their privacy in the first place
We will be doing this again next week. It’s lovely. Nobody seems to understand the downside of demonstrating an entire community has zero combined expertise by demanding spoon-fed information instantly. Lacking any sources that could criticize Signal.
Do you think it could be related to sanitizing your websites with “anti-disinformation” strategies lifted directly from the people who spy on you & your family? No, no, that’s too far out. Inductive reasoning is impossible. You know this.
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This is normal for “nonprofit” companies. The former head of Mozilla was paid 6.1 million in 2024.
US and the West are ‘managed’ by elite psychopaths that don’t give a shit about ordinary peoples ‘privacy’ or similar fancy tools for the wage-slaves. They have used these tools to try and break through specific nations/groups information defenses. ANYTHING sponsored by the US Oligarchy is either a part of local US control, or an attempt at reaching more people with rich-man propaganda in nations that defend themselves against US lies and color-revolutions…
What is going on with all of these people saying CEO’s or other employees deserve to live comfortably? The average salary in the US is like $64,000 the median is more like $38,000. What kind of person could possibly do the work of 10 or almost 20 (depending on weather you prefer median or average) regular people? If people should be payed based off how much work they do this is not a reasonable amount.
people saying CEOs*
They’re still far more encrypted than literally every other alternative.
You people have zero awareness of the limitations of your own knowledge.
Meanwhile Discord in it’s entirety is unencrypted
I can’t believe that worked. Well, it’s a good thing we have more than three options
To be fair, Discord has e2e encrypted voice calls using their “Dave” protocol.
well well well, this is news to me… but c’mon it’s like an abuser decided to be nice for once xD (not enough)
Dude, don’t start
Ugh. I’ve always liked Matrix (and was not bothered too much by the metadata leaks because my home server was not federated anyways), but after noticing some issues and finally reading up on the actual protocol spec a couple of weeks ago… oof. Yeah. No.
Set up XMPP for now. Works really well and the protocol seems so much saner. Unfortunately, it too has some annoyances that are unacceptable to me in the long term. I’m this close to saying “fuck it” and wasting the next couple of years of my life on a new protocol that no one is gonna use. (Cue the XKCD here.)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA https://lemmy.ml/comment/24436351
I FUCKING KNEW IT YOU PEOPLE ONLY KNOW THAT ONE BLOG
What blog?
I’m this close to saying “fuck it” and wasting the next couple of years of my life on a new protocol that no one is gonna use.
This article does a good job exploring the landscape of text chats, and ultimately finds that XMPP is still our best bet, it just needs some spit and polish.
Funny, I’ve also already read that 😄 Good blog and article.
Works really well and the protocol seems so much saner.
Ha, thanks, I’d already read that. And I do, mostly, agree; the OMEMO implementation is not great both from the security perspective discussed in the post, as well as the UX (not being able to decrypt old messages on new devices at all).
That being said, I primarily want a selfhosted, federated messenger which also takes privacy and security seriously, and at least for the former, XMPP is really refreshingly good.
Yeah no shit you already read it they post it every single time. I don’t think any of them have actually read it, the problems he is complaining about were solved ages ago or by two clicks, once. The guy actually argues for people to use Telegram because they have disabilities and software is hard. An absolute masterclass.
I want to point out that the author of that linked blog, Soatok, actually removed a response in the comments from an OMEMO developer which clarified some things, which personally I think was rather odd/bad faith of them to do. When asked about it, this was their response:
“I’ll make an edit later about the protocol version thing, but I’m not interested in having questions answered. My entire horse in this race is for evangelists to f** off and leave me alone. That’s it. That’s all I want.”
According to the OMEMO developer in his response (you can it read here), there’s nothing really wrong with OMEMO 0.3.0, as the dev considers it a stable standard that clients can safely implement, with newer versions basically being public beta releases toward a stable ‘OMEMO 2’ standard that can eventually replace 0.3.0.
I didn’t know about this response, thank you for pointing it out. However, this response fails to address the main criticism of the XMPP+ONEMO:
To understand why this is true, you only need check whether OMEMO is on by default (it isn’t), or whether OMEMO can be turned off even if your client supports it (it can).
Both of these conditions fail the requirements I outlined under the End-to-End Encryption header in that other blog post.
And that’s all that I should have needed to say on the matter.
You should also link Ariadne’s post saying she rather use signal, but that would be against the tone of your post, right?
https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/116043045098562878
Yes, posting wrong opinions would be against the theme of the post, and in fact my account as a whole. That’s pretty standard for programmers who wear bunny suits. If we keep going here one of them is going to show up and post that Soatok person’s blog.
Got it, you’re just here to bait people.
I’m here to educate people, not nitpick people and try to pass off my low standards for “secure software” and US government-dependent NGOs as an interest in sustainable OPSEC.
I love signal and use I daily but I will admit the lack of self hosting is the biggest red flag for me. And that the servers are all in USA.
Unfortunately, I don’t have any alternatives that are as readily accessible and easy to set up to others. XMPP I guess is really the best bet for true privacy but a lot of people I talk to would be unable to grasp how to set it up and use it correctly.
Unbearable: This was the last time i donated to signal. Next time i’ll donate to some small foss-projects.
is the argument they shouldn’t be paid money for their work? or maybe signal shouldn’t be hiring at competitive salaries for highly skilled labor?
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary, the executives are paid more. And you will not in a million years convince me that corporate suits are doing skilled work in a way to deserve more compensation than people actually making the product.
that’s a fair comment I don’t know what they do either.
having seen a few of these org charts this could be much worse. there are 4 salaries related to software and technical improvements of the app and platform.
most ppl underestimate what kind of infrastructure is required to make anything work at planet scale, including auxiliary functions. I’d be much more interested in where the funding is coming from.
Their job is to ensure the nonprofit doesn’t suddenly start making something which can actually help them hide from the US government. Which would be possible since they have the talent.
Well, the only person on the list with “developer” in their title has the lowest salary,
Unsurprisingly.
What a scam…
Hey guys I help orphans on a non profit, I’m a very good person. BTW I get paid 1M a year
I would really love for some of the people here talking about how it’s a good thing this “talent” is retained to explain what it is exactly these people do. I am 100% certain they hate these people in their own companies. But somehow when they see it in an NGO corporate structure it’s all sunshine and daisies.
Non profits are not charities.
These salaries are quite low in the tech sector.
How does this compare to salaries for comparable positions at comparable for-profit companies?
It’s kinda the point of donations that they can afford to hire people whose labor costs that much.
Isn’t 1M per year upper middle class in america now?
Oh look the Americans are here to pretend that highly-paid tech workers are normal human beings. I wonder if that has anything to do with the demographics of the Reddit-fuelled Hitler instances. Worth consideration. 🤔
I’ve been reading this thread for way too long looking for you to post a single fucking link or source for your claims. You’ve typed thousands of words and 99% of them are insults to people that are just asking where you got these ideas from. Looks like you’re only purpose is to slam signal without proof. Why?
Damn, I don’t think I’ll make 1M in my lifetime combined.
My nephew, uncle and I have all had medical bills at $1M each
That’s because you live in Europe and stretching a month’s paycheck is easier than a week’s and the Euro is an strogner currency with better anti-gouging laws.
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
70k euros a month is insane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
To sum up, 70k euros a month is a lot.
Even 10k euro per month is a lot and will be far better than most other people in Europe and allow you to live more than comfortably.
What would be the downside if all companies were non-profit? At first sight, it sounds like a great idea.
What would be the downside if the world was made of pudding
It would collapse on itself, unable to carry its own weight, heating up massively. I consider superheated pudding volcanos something of a downside, personally. I cannot reasonably estimate what might happen in the centre of the world, supercritical fluid doesn’t seem enough. Perhaps nanodiamond crystallisation from the organic parts of the pudding? Also lots of hydrogen release, I’d guess.
My suggestions involves only change of the legal framework. Besides, there are non-profit companies. I’m not sure about details, but for example Velux (windows manufacturer) and Carl Zeiss (optics) are supposed to be non-profits, and Anthropic could say no to the DoD because it’s some sort of not-just-for-profit company.
Is that good?
Raising enough money to pay its employees and expand, but not the most you can without regard to anything else? Sonds like an interesting idea to explore. Or are you talking about super-dense pudding?
The conventional answer is that there would be much less incentive to fund new ones.
Some things need a large investment to start: power plants, cities, factories, space stations, etc. Sometimes more money than the people involved can afford, and you need to ask someone to front the money, they typically get paid with a share of the profits.
Thanks, that sounds very reasonable.
The problem is that NGOs and charities are just a way for capital to manage social stability and will never have that kind of expansiveness. It’s like trying to build socialism by starting worker cooperatives in a bourgeois democracy.
Some companies will be invisible and/or “boring” - nobody ever said: “Oh, I just love my office building’s cleaning supplies delivery contractor, I should donate them again!”
To be fair non-profit doesn’t mean you can’t charge for your services. You just can’t pay profit out as dividends so there’s no incentive to overcharge.
Yes, I understand, but with the same example - I see how people can fing it interesting/motivating building a service like signal, but if I ever opened a b2b household chemistry supply company, I doubt I would be ok if it worked as a nonprofit - what’s in it for me, except money?
Just answering the question: “Why doesn’t everybody move to nonprofit model?”You can still pay yourself a salary. But true, I don’t see why you’d go nonprofit for b2b things. Idea of a nonprofit is usually to benefit the community, by giving customers fair prices instead of skimming a bunch off the top - why bother doing that for b2b when it just increases other businesses margins
Ah another hitpiece on Signal huh? They must be doing a lot right.
we calling signal a multi billion dollar company now
the whole context here are the insane payouts for the execs
Those are normal salaries for a tech company.
those are not normal salaries for people working on regular open source projects though
I have tagged you as Putin Apologist
I don’t know why you think I would care what some random troll on the internet tags me as. Sounds like you should work on your narcissism.
well yes, taking millions from the US government to dupe people like you into slathering yourself in metadata is the right move. redditors will justify anything once locked into the circlejerk
Signal is the only way I’ve been able to get my friends and family onto an E2E messaging app. Before this, they were all using SMS and WhatsApp. Signal is how we survived ICE in Minneapolis and organized to stop a bunch of jackbooted fascists from kidnapping all of our neighbors and deporting them to unknown countries. I have a lot of respect for the folks at Signal as a result.
I get that you all are on better platforms or whatever, but I don’t appreciate the dismissive shit that I’m seeing in these replies. Especially when it’s about one of the first privacy-oriented apps that normies get started with. You have some information about Signal that shows it’s shitty or a honeypot? Great, then post it. I’d genuinely love to see it (and not in a “post it so I can argue with you like an annoying redditor” kinda way). But this shit about high salaries at a non profit is not convincing to me and none of your replies here are doing your cause any service.
Literally all the shit talking in this thread is all from that guy. Lots of shit talking, didn’t link a single source to back it up.
The shittalking will continue until the encryption improves. It’s MY thread and you can’t have it!
K
my family and friends are intractable
You’re probably annoying + not my problem. You clearly aren’t very knowledgable about this, so I doubt you would even be able to explain it to them. XMPP and Delta Chat are easier to set up. You’re just arguing that laziness is a virtue.
Signal is how we survived ICE in Minneapolis
Serious “it was revealed to me in a dream” shit that most people would think was excessive if I made it up as a joking example of Signal defenders. Signal is funded by the US government and collects + leaks metadata. The US government uses metadata to target hacking of the device itself. Metadata is more valuable for surveillance than message content, it is used by police + intelligence to fabricate evidence of “terror networks” including teenagers in Chicago texting each other. Minneapolis drove out ICE because they had guns and physically planted themselves between the psychos and the people they wanted to terrorize. If they were stupid enough to use Signal (or encouraged by people like you) or bring their phones downtown, they will be mopped up before they can do anything useful. Fortunately for the feds, Americans barely even bother to walk around with signs.
The ability of these companies to operate centralized services in countries that serve gag orders should make things obvious, but fortunately you people have been trained by social media to require epistemological proof of wrongdoing.
blocked
Tbf they are probably renting in california lol, their ‘pwese donate we need it’ always felt about as legitimate as 'hello from jimmy at wikipedia, we’re about to shut down the website, everyone please send $1 to the wikipedia guy, 432 evergreen tereace’
I’m really trying hard to see the point that’s being made. Is it just the “high” salaries, or is there some other implication? The OP seems to be insinuating that Signal is a honeypot or something. I am going to need a lot more proof than, “hey, these guys work at a non-profit and they aren’t underpaid!” Given that most tech jobs offer stock options in addition to normal salary, it would make sense that base salary should be higher at a non-profit (where stock options don’t exist). Their salary structure also seems much flatter than other non-profits that I saw within the propublica link.
What am I missing here?
We already know it’s a honeypot, this is circumstantial evidence about their role in sapping donations from the wider open source ecosystem. Keep donating to them if you don’t value your money.
Can you provide some evidence for your claims? You’ve even linked to another post where you say you’re here to educate people but all I’m seeing are assertions with no basis and insults.
honeypot
You mean Proton
We already know it’s a honeypot
Oh?
Yeah that’s why you guys focus on shit like “I was able to convince my grandma to use it” - you don’t understand what is wrong with Signal technically.
No, I focus on that because it’s real. It sounds like you don’t get out much, just judging by how you talk to people. So let me lay it out for you. People are resistant to change and you have to convince them. You aren’t good at that, which is why you’re so mad. I’m trying to get information to help convince people I know and love, which is why I’m asking for more information from the person who seems to know a lot. However you also seem to be bad at providing resources to back your claims up.
No, not everyone who fails to relate to your American experience “fails to get out much”. It’s more than you’re incapable of understanding why someone would avoid centralizing “privacy services” in countries that run the global capitalist surveillance state. What you’re doing is derailing the thread + demanding spoon feeding + begging the question. Your motivation is a wounded ego because someone said you made a bad choice—one that is as easy to fix as installing and uninstalling services.
Jesus Christ dude. I’m talking about how you are immediately hostile to everyone in this thread. Get over yourself.
Get some good software on your devices that doesn’t have a lifespan according to the goodwill of the feds, and have a wonderful morning.
You are being a bit of a cunt FWIW
