Take a car with an internal combustion engine and replace everything that is needed for an electric car. Now you have a no-nonsense car.
Instead, we have a rolling data center that feels like a smartphone.
You should check Chevy’s lineup. They’re pretty ok, the truck is expensive, but what truck isn’t?
After growing up with one, I’d rather walk blindfolded on a freeway than drive a Chevy.
Does the word “car” mean something different in the USA?
“Car” in America is any passenger vehicle, it seems.
Sadly, yes.
genuinely so hyped for this
There aren’t no nonsense gas powered cars anymore. Everything is computer controlled.
Anti lock brakes, collision avoidance, controlling the fuel injections. You have to go back to the models that used carburetors to get what you want. Then the federal goverment requires tons of expensive safety equipment and testing to keep new companies from entering the market.
But to answer the question, profits. The production line for low price gas cars are already built and optimized with statistical process control. There aren’t high profits in the low priced autos. They will only switch when nobody buys their current models.
Just look at the big three turning their nose up to electric.
Meanwhile Hyundai is rolling out a super cheap model in china. https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hyundais-new-ioniq-v-undercuts-the-cheapest-ev-in-america-by-over-10000/
FYI: Companies are getting your message and vibe. But so far it’s just for farm tractors.
https://wheelfront.com/this-alberta-startup-sells-no-tech-tractors-for-half-price/
There aren’t no nonsense gas powered cars anymore. Everything is computer controlled.
Anti lock brakes, collision avoidance, controlling the fuel injections. You have to go back to the models that used carburetors to get what you want. Then the federal goverment requires tons of expensive safety equipment and testing.
I don’t think OP is referring to any of that. More so the infotainments systems, touch controlled dashboards etc.
Idk, just because a car doesn’t have a touchscreen doesn’t mean the computers aren’t tracking you. Anything with ADAS (advanced driver assistance systems) is going to phone home, and vehicles are required to have a lot of the systems now.
For sure, but blaming that on computers in general is a bit dumb
All that can be disabled in some cars, i.e. Kia.
ABS has saved thousands of lives. Fuel injection has saved billions of dollars in gas.
Welcome to Car Industry Protectionism 101.
You want a no nonsense electric car at an affordable price point? Tough shit. Your country’s politicians love those car industry kick backs.
I think that that’s kind of a problem with almost all new cars, not just EVs.
Slate’s a pretty stripped-down EV. It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
Let’s see what Slate actually sells, if they sell anything at all.
Yeah I might get a used slate someday.
It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
I’m not sure how that will be road legal in the USA because after the passage of a law in 2018 all vehicles under 10,000 lbs require a backup camera.
“Today’s final rule requires all vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including buses and trucks, manufactured on or after May 1, 2018, to come equipped with rear visibility technology that expands the field of view to enable the driver of a motor vehicle to detect areas behind the vehicle to reduce death and injury resulting from backover incidents. The field of view must include a 10-foot by 20-foot zone directly behind the vehicle. The system must also meet other requirements including image size, linger time, response time, durability, and deactivation.”
they can put the backup camera display integrated into the rear view mirror, many models of cars had this before the built in tablet computer became ubiquitous.
This is stupid design. When I’m going backward it’s always better to have more view angles: rear mirror, side mirrors, backing camera, all of them have different view angle and their use. Blocking mirror with camera display is like losing an eye.
We’ll, I have a rear video in mirror and you’re completely wrong.
Gotcha, thank you for that. So they DO have a screen, but its normally in use for the speed/charge gauge cluster, etc. Good solution.
Give me AC, A heat pump, 300 miles of range. And two basic speakers. If it doesn’t make the 1998 beater i got when i was 19 look fully loaded it aint basic enough. I need to not die from the elements and for it to go from A to B while blasting low quality buttrock.
Well, that’s the Slate with a couple addons
It’s got a mount where you can stick a phone or tablet if you want, but nothing built-in.
I believe that is a mistake, carplay and android auto are designed to work well when driving, my phone automatically removes all text message notifications and makes me not even notice getting texted to prevent me from getting distracted.
I would like a stripped down car that still has Carplay/Android Auto.
You can install head units into older cars easily to do this. Did it with my old Ute. Android auto for a song.
I’m pretty sure you can choose to install an entertainment center if you wish to. But why should those of us who do not want have to pay?
Interesting. Android auto always makes me more distracted vs if the phone was just normal.
This would be solved by putting space in the dash for people to install their own head units.
Am I the only person who uses my phone as the head unit?
The guy I’m replying to already explained why that is suboptimal for him.
Which they’re doing.
Didn’t look like it every time I checked
There’s a huge space in the dash, it’s basically a large glove box. A radio or screen can be hidden behind the door or built into it, whatever you prefer.
Choice and DIY is a big part of Slate’s thing. I don’t need or want a screen and would not like a car with a big space for one. I’ll add it later if I change my mind.
The range is shorter than a Tesla but the price is about a third so it’s not so bad when you factor that in. I wish Slate success I really like their approach to the automobile, they remind me of Framework computer on wheels.
Yeah I hope they succeed: we really need something like that.
I understand why they’re building a truck but I really wish they hadn’t. With that low range and the suv/fastback kits being extra cost, it’s not as compelling to me as it should be
I know a part of me wonders if a two seat with flat bed pickup was significantly cheaper than a four seat car with trunk.
I know what you mean but it’s hard to believe.
However it’s easier to believe
- A huge part of the us want a truck, even if they’d be better served by other vehicle types
- When the goal is being modular, you can turn a truck into an suv, but not vice versa
Yeah I want an EV version the Bronco boom of the 70s. We got the Blazer and Scout too.
Or the Matra Rancho if you’re from France.
Hopefully a hot hatch revival can follow once the public gets a taste for simple cheaper EVs.
Probably the auto market has to fully collapse first though. And China is going to pick up tie pieces.
Estimated range: 205 miles.
So real world 150, 100 in winter.
It would do better without the aero of a barn.
See I like this but man is it expensive. It fits every category I need, well except range.
In the past the marketers were likely convinced that EV drivers wanted something different, that looked different, that everyone would see as different, that would stick out. Because why else would you possibly want an EV?!? It’s obviously because you want to stick out. It’s called product differentiation and the product developers are all over it. Nowadays it’s also like that but along a different wave, now you have to differentiate with more screens! More gadgets! Have to differentiate from normal cars or why else would anyone buy from us instead of them! It’s funny one business podcast I listen to says of Tesla “they haven’t updated it in years! It feels old! It’s a failure!” They feel the need to one up every time and differentiate and now we can’t just buy a normal car.
old man shakes fist at cloud?
It’s all cars. It’s more profitable to sell fewer cars at a higher price. The tech bloat is used to justify the high price. Regulations requiring the tech bloat are designed to keep competitors from entering the market. Regulations are paid for by
bribeslobbying.I drive an Opel Corsa E. It’s basically just a normal Opel Corsa with an electric engine.
Or is that not what you had in mind?Happy reddit can fuck off day
I owned an Opel Corsa once. I don’t ever want to get reminded again.
I was hit by an Opel Corsa once, it hurt like hell but I killed the car.
Are you a deer
Not anymore!
You can buy Hyundai, Renault, BMW, VW. … all pretty good “normal” electric cars.
With switches and knobs? Without a touch screen?
How many ICE cars can you do that with? It’s an industry problem, not a power train problem
I don’t know so many details, sorry
Because the overlords want data. So data collection must be in everything because top dollar is being paid for it.
They couldn’t build them fast enough if there were, they would run out of batteries.
People buying cheap basic cars aren’t going to pay extra for it, or mess around with putting in L2 charging at home.
Why make 2 budget EVs and make $5k each when you can make 1 expensive one and make $10k?
If you drive a normal less than an hour commute to work, you may not need L2 for normal every day charging. Of course it is nice, but you could always get the car first and put in L2 at a later date or never.
I firmly believe, at least in the US, but it’s probably true for the rest of the world as well, that as soon as somewhat crackdowns on what is allowed to be gathered for data is done, that a model or two after that you will start seeing significantly less smart features in vehicles and it will only be more convenience and safety items, I believe personally that a lot of our infotainment system style designs will go away because the primary reason for running those style designs is to allow for data collection.
And that’s because there’s a lot of money in data collection. Be it law enforcement buying it for location data on someone or the onstar wanting it for analytics of where cars are going or how they’re being used to insurance agencies wanting to know how often an individual goes over the speed limit.
It’s also incredibly useful even for the first party and knowing what features are used the most in the vehicle for research and development.
But yeah, once the financial incentive is significantly neutered, I believe you will fairly quickly see a lot of these features becoming optional add-ons or no longer offered period
that as soon as somewhat crackdowns on what is allowed to be gathered for data is done
I hope I’m just cynical, but that seems like a mighty big if right there
My issue is that a lot of manufacturers have tried, incorrectly, to mimic Tesla in ways they don’t understand.
Tesla have a 16" screen in their car.
Ford: We put a 17" screen in our car!
Tesla: You can watch movies, play video games, browse the internet, etc. when you’re charging (as it used to take a long time - but we’ve kept the big screen).
Ford: You’ve got a bit ole screen! It’s bigger than a Tesla’s! Your driving map is huuuge. When you’re charging you can watch it charge - in HD!
Buttons and dials are coming back, at least.
Not sure where I read it, but the story goes that loads of manufacturers used touch screen controls “because Tesla” but Tesla didn’t do it because it was cool and fancy, they did it because it’s cheaper. Spinning up entire supply lines to get plastic buttons and switches just wasn’t feasible for them in the startup days.
It’s literally the opposite of premium.
Not everywhere. BMW stupidly are nixing more controls in favor of touch bullshit.
And that stupid tablet in the middle design seems to only ever quicken its pace.
They always just take the ICR out, stick a generic EV powertrain in and basically call it a day.
Literally no one does that. Where does Lemmy get their engineering expertise from?
I can say coming from a Tasla in 2018 to Polestar, and then a bunch of various EV rentals while that was being “repaired” (and ultimately returned as a lemon)… To ending up with a Honda Prologue (actually a GM)…
None of the legacy automakers have any idea what to do with EVs, and they aren’t even trying to figure it out. They always just take the ICR out, stick a generic EV powertrain in and basically call it a day.
No attempt to take advantage of the fact they have power always available. Still keeping the engine Start/Stop button despite there being no reason for it. Requiring lock/unlock buttons on the exterior handles despite the car already knowing whether you’re in proximity via the fob, to let those buttons do anything in the first place.
And the complete lack of things like YouTube/Netflix, etc. when needing to charge at public chargers on long trips in more remote areas with limited infrastructure.
They could just copy Tesla and no one would complain, because the product would actually be good. As it is currently, all of the legacy US manufacturers fucking suck. The only ones that seem to have figured it out are the new players that haven’t had the same Boomers running the show for the last century.
This is my experience as well. I think it’s arrogance to a degree “we’ve been making cars for 140 years, we know how do it” - and then they fail miserably.
OP is drinking the oil industry Kool Aid. All cars come with the same sensors and send the same data home. It has nothing to do with the engine.
We should have laws against it, but it certainly isn’t limitteed to EVs.
Rivian gas vehicles have zero sensors. Checkmate athiests!
All cars come with the same sensors and send the same data home. It has nothing to do with the engine.
You wish to elaborate on that bold claim a little? Because there’s a ton of sensors that are present in combustion engine but not in EVs and they have everything to do with the engine.
All the location, video and entertainment data harvested on EVs is harvested on ICE.
You completely missed the point. OP made a claim “EV cars have lots of gimmicks”, this comment is saying “so do non EV cars”.
this comment is saying “so do non EV cars”
It’s not though. Perhaps that is what they mean which is why I asked for clarification but it sure is not what they said.
The discussion isn’t about oxygen sensors or knock sensors. They’re talking about all the ‘smart’ features that send all kinds of information about you to the manufacturers. These systems are present in almost all modern cars.
GPS location data, speed, acceleration, braking, video, driver weight, passenger weight, radio preference, podcasts, music,…
You must be invulnerable to arrows, with your ability to miss the point.
If only I had asked for clarification to better understand the point.
All new ones, yeah. Old cars are probably less spyware-y, but unfortunately none of those are EV (as far as I’m aware).
What frustrates me most about my wife’s Kona is that the shift stick is gone & you have to use buttons. That & how confusing it was to figure out how to open the charging unit when she first got it.
God forbid you read the manual.
