I have to rethink my priorities I guess.
You must log in or # to comment.
I think there should be one clock for the entire planet and fuck timezones. Most people don’t actually care about what specific number hour the sun rises. Zenith at 4? Fuckit. Communication between people is more important than the movement of celestial bodies.
shorter work days mean longer work days in summer. No thanks
I mean… I have young kids with delacate sleep schedules, and I just want them to stop fucking with the clock. Please just pick a lane and stay in it.
Why do we need to change the clock twice a year when we know how many downsides there are?
- sleep disruptions, can take weeks to adjust
- 24% spike in heart attacks on the Monday after setting the clock forward
- 8% increased risk of stroke
- increased depressive episodes, worse mood, decreased cognitive performance
- 6% increase in traffic accidents
- more frequent workplace injuries
- increased pedestrian risk
- estimated between millions to billions of dollars in productivity loss annually in the US alone
- international coordination confusion
It fucking sucks
Iirc the heart attacks even out over the span of a few weeks, so Idk about the others.
Iirc the heart attacks even out over the span of a few weeks, so Idk about the others.
Did you get it, or…
I hate daylight savings time so much.
Do other countries do this stupid shit? We can’t even do time right
As an Indian, no we don’t.
I propose a compromise, mandate that at least half of the employees go to work an hour later than the other half
Shorter work days? The corporate and government bastards would add a week or month to the calendar, especially in the 3rd World countries, China and USA. Those folks would embrace it with their stupid work hard beyond the point of diminishing return attitude while the civilized 1st World countries would revolt.
Hmmm they make a strong case. We should think about trying this.
That’s a recipe for overpopulation :)
Hahaha I dunno why so many DV’s this is funny and true
LOL, no idea, at least someone enjoyed it.
“Everything is made up and the points don’t matter”
:)
I just strongly dislike my biorhythms being thrown out of whack for several weeks twice a year.
Yeah. It ending is a nice little treat I dont mind because Im able to sleep in and I get to be like “oh wow it feels so much later but it’s only 5 we have so much time!” for a few days until I adjust, but losing an hour in the spring can go to hell.
We dont even get anything out of it. Towards the end of daylight savings in october it’s actually darker in the mornings when you wake up which sucks cause it switches off just in time for it to also get darker earlier due to winter. Whats the pro of springing forwards? The sun fully sets at 9 instead of 8 in the summer? Admittedly I do love long summer days, but if lets be real that tradeoff is minimal(and kinda annoying if you have young kids).
Theres like a 2 week period in spring where its like “oh neat the sun is still up” in the evening. The whole thing is dumb.
Even in October when the clocks are turned back and we “get an extra hour” it still fucks with my body’s internal clock. And it takes weeks for me to adjust to the regular time.
The real problem with daylight savings time is that we haven’t killed and devoured the oligarchy/hegemony/kakistocracy.
Do all the people who have daylight savings time also use energy savings bulbs and money savings tips?
Of course, LED bulbs are so ubiquitous that it’s hard to even find filament bulbs that aren’t special use, and instead of wasting money on big trips to Epstein’s island they now have have the children trafficked straight to their hotel rooms
The ones in power deciding for everyone else don’t use them, I would think.
Yesterday I saw a video with a sleep expert.
She said that human beings have a problem getting up until it’s light and that Daylight Saving Time can mess that up.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter, but with no decrease in pay, and that they start an hour later.
This will allow people to have a proper amount of sleep, and to see the sun in the morning, to be better rested, and to see the sun at the end of the day.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter
This isn’t something you “propose”, this is something you demand when negotiating your job offer. If you’re not an in-demand worker and can’t do that, then join a union and have the union demand it.
Really, this whole daylight time / standard time debate is stupid. Solar noon should be at 12pm. Once you’ve fixed that, adjust other things. If in the summer people want more evening sun, then start work earlier. If in the winter they want more morning sun to make commutes safer, then start work later.
It’s absolutely ridiculous to have the freedom to change work hours and clocks, and think that the reasonable thing to do is to change the clocks so noon isn’t at noon, rather than just change work hours.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways. Though scheduling an online meeting with anyone outside your city would be hell, for example a 9:00am meeting in New York City would be 8:48am in Boston and 9:12am in DC.
You should have also have a read on Japan’s time system before 1873 in the Meiji period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clock
It breaks the day and night in 6 parts each. These parts are longer in summer and shorter in winter, corresponding to a changing length of the work day, which is what you were describing. Certain aspects were retained in Japanese vocabulary like 午 still used to represent noon like in afternoon (but using the standard 24h clock), or the word for snack derived from the number 8 because that was what represented the time 2/3s of the way through the day when labourers of the day typically took a break and had some tea and a light meal.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways.
No, with railroads each city had their own time. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm. With DST solar noon can be as late as 1:30pm, or perhaps even later in badly designed time zones. That’s dumb. Solar noon should be close to noon. We shouldn’t mess with that. If that makes certain other things like commuting or sending kids to school inconvenient, we should change the hours at which those activities happen.
Or, just use UTC for the time for everything and never change it. Then everyone’s in the same time zone, and you no longer have to wonder what time it is in Baku. You’d still have to do a bit of digging to know what normal work hours and normal sleeping hours are in Baku if you wanted to contact someone there though.
I agree that doing away with conventions like “9-to-5” would be a good idea, and just adjust schedules to whatever is healthiest rather than try to conform to a fixed system where not necessary. In China with a single timezone, the regions far west of Beijing supposedly just go about their day with offset schedules.
I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm.
I suppose you might have meant that, but you did say in the earlier reply, quote, “Solar noon should be at 12pm” which would suggest each city would have its own noon so that it can be true for most people. Maybe I’m being too literal bordering on facetious, so I’ll stop there. Sorry for my misinterpretation of your comment.
which would suggest each city would have its own noon
No, it would suggest that each person should have their own personal noon, if you’re being pedantic.
The time zone is an hour wide. Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
I would say that Solar noon should occur some time in the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur prior to chronological noon, nor after the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur at 11:00am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:30am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:59am on the clock. Nobody should experience solar noon earlier than 12:00pm. Solar noon should be experienced sometime between 12:00pm and 12:59:59pm on the clock. Solar noon should be experienced within the noon hour.
The system that more closely aligns with this is Daylight Savings Time. Standard Time pushes solar noon forward into the morning hours for most people. DST keeps noon in the noon hour for most people. If you want chronological noon to coincide with solar noon, you need to choose DST, not standard time.
Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges. But, if you go with permanent DST it will range from 12:30 to 1:30. Nobody in the zone will have solar noon at noon.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges.
No, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will occur between 12:00 and 12:59:59. Nobody should be experiencing solar noon before chronological noon in a properly designed time zone.
And yet, that is what we have. Boston experienced solar noon at 11:29AM today. New York at 11:40. Los Angeles, 11:37 AM.
Even if we accepted the ridiculous idea
of tolerating solar noon before noon, we would need a fifth time zone (and redrawing of the current time zones) to achieve what you’re trying to do. Maine and the rest of New England would have to be moved to Atlantic time instead of Eastern, for example.
If each of us adopted your “noon at noon” standard for ourselves, and we each independently and permanently selected Summer Time or Winter Time in our current time zone, the majority of the US population would be on Summer Time. The majority of the land would be on standard time, but the people are not evenly distributed across that land. The majority of the populace would be on DST.
Sunset today was at 4:27PM in Augusta, Maine. That is a big damn problem that is only going to get worse for the next ~40 days. That same problem occurs on the eastern edge of every time zone.
Frankly, I’m not interested in the advice of “sleep experts”. I’m more interested in the advice of fitness experts, recreation experts, and everyone else who understands that mornings are the time we waste giving to bosses and clients; evenings are the time we spend on ourselves and our loved ones.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level. They all have some different story to tell.
I don’t call my labmates molecule experts. That would be insulting but funny. Never a scientist, always an expert buahahaha.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level.
They are on the same level, but they are making opposite recommendations. Sleepists want morning daylight; fitness and recreation wants afternoon daylight.
Kids don’t work out in the early morning before school. They engage in extra curricular activities in the only time slot available to them: after school. Taking daylight from the only time slot they have for themselves pushes them indoors, rather than being outside and active.
The reality is that the morning daylight that sleep experts want is easily produced artificially. Daylight lamps in our bedrooms can easily address the circadian issues the Sleepists raise.
Afternoon daylight cannot be similarly simulated.
TL;DR: Standard Time makes you look fat.
I’m a “children in a box” expert, which doesn’t sound too good until I mention I’m a school bus driver.
You should also go to bed when the Sun sets. you do that too, right?
No you shouldn’t. Not at all actually. Your hormones typically build up to initiate the sleep cycle around 9:30-10:00pm. It’s skience brah.
Lol if you’re going to bed that early and sleeping until sun up then you have early symptoms of dementia.
Wow how did that evolve?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep
Could be because humanity spread out from more equatorial areas? So we evolved to sleep at night because they used to be regular from season to season.
Yeah, if the day started at such a time that I could wake up at 8am, which is when the sky would be lightening up just before sunrise in the dead of winter (if we stayed on DST), that’d be sweet. I am one of the sun in the morning people, but I’d be willing to rethink my position.
And the worst part is that my jobs generally start at 10am. I’m just surrounded by days that start way earlier. I also have jobs that start at 530, or 630, or 730, and so the evening light was never such a big deal for me.
As an aside, adopting year-round daylight saving time in the US would add 2 billion school commutes in darkness and billions more work commutes, with a corresponding increase in traffic deaths and injuries. Traditional daylight saving time comes in second. The plan with the fewest dark commutes is year-round Standard Time.
adopting year-round daylight saving time in the US would add 2 billion school commutes in darkness
Unless you did the obvious thing and adjusted the school and work hours. Why isn’t that being considered?
It’s not like it was some rule handed down on a tablet that work must start at 9am and school must start at 8:30 or, whatever time it is that kids go to school in your particular local area. If it’s safer to wait until after the sun is up to send the kids to school, then start school later.
Adjusting school and work hours should definitely be considered - so there would be no reason at all for daylight saving time.
It should be considered long before you consider changing the clock so that noon isn’t at noon.
You’ve spent almost 3/4 of your life with solar noon occurring sometime between 12:30pm and 1:30pm. We only use “standard time” for a little over 1/4 of the year.
Why are you suddenly demanding that noon be moved forward an hour for 3/4 of the year? Why cant we keep it where it normally is, but year round? Why do we have to move it for winter?
You’ve spent almost 3/4 of your life with solar noon occurring sometime between 12:30pm and 1:30pm.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven’t. You don’t know where I live and where I have lived.
We only use “standard time” for a little over 1/4 of the year.
Do you? That’s stupid.
Why are you suddenly demanding that noon be moved forward an hour
You can’t move noon. What I’m suggesting is that 12pm should be as close to noon as possible.
And there’s nothing sudden about my demands.
I totally agree we should scrap Daylight Saving Time and encourage flexing school and work schedules.
Commuting isn’t the issue. Quality time is the issue. Those dark morning commutes (for about 60-90 days of the year) cost us the only hour of evening daylight that could potentially be had for 120-150 days of the year.
We already use standard time for 8 months of the year. To minimize disruption, we should just extend it year round.
Commuting as per se isn’t the issue. The issue is that when more of those commutes occur in darkness, more people get killed commuting. They’re literally dying so more evenings can start before dark.
More people are dying from seasonal affective disorder, depression, heart disease, and other conditions associated with the sedentary lifestyle that winter time promotes. A lot more. The lack of evening daylight drives kids indoors, to their couches, TVs, and phones instead of participating in outdoor activities.
You are killing more kids than I. You are killing a lot more.
Do you work second or third shift? The only reasons to support early morning sunlight are if you don’t work first shift, or you do nothing but loaf around the house after work. Since the alternative is profound laziness, I figure you must work evenings or overnight, right?
Commuting is the issue when you don’t want to run over kids. Driving tired is bad.
Circadian rhythms have become simple to manage with cheap smart lamps. A daylight bulb that fades on to coincide with summer sunrise times is trivial to setup, and easily solves the problems the “sleep experts” are talking about. Artificial lighting is easy to install in bedrooms.
It’s a little harder to illuminate all outdoor spaces to keep the sun from setting in the early afternoon.
It’s easy to add retro reflective details to kids clothing, lighting them up like Christmas trees whether they are out before sunrise or after the streetlights come on at 4 o’clock in the afternoon. It’s a little harder to brighten playgrounds and metro parks and hiking trails and soccer fields and sledding hills to make them safe enough for the kids to use after school.
Afternoons are the only time slot kids have to engage in outdoor activities. Stealing those hours of daylight from them is child abuse, and is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic.
TL;DR: Standard Time makes you look fat.
Nice body shaming.
Show me the papers that support your point instead of using emotional arguments.
Nah, we are well beyond rational arguments at this point. Nobody is providing papers supporting any of their claims, whether the idiotic idea that traffic fatalities will increase, or “sleep experts” or any other bullshit on either side of the argument.
Changing the time twice annually is one of the stupidest things we have culturally inherited. We managed to kill it once, and some nostalgic idiots decided to resurrect it, and inflict it on us again. There is no serious argument about actually keeping it. The only discussion remaining is whether it should be killed in Spring or Autumn.
We have spent 2/3 of our lives on spring/summer/fall time, and 1/3rd on winter time. Minimizing disruption, we should permanently adopt the schedule we use more often: DST.
There is no support for permanent standard time. You know how I know that? Because the states are free to adopt it. The federal law instituting DST permits states to adopt permanent standard time if they like. That law expressly prohibits states from adopting permanent DST.
The overwhelming majority of the public prefer to eliminate the time change, but only two states have elected to do so by adopting standard time. The remaining 48 could go to permanent standard time tomorrow, but they all prefer DST.
Can we agree on simply removing the federal prohibition against the adoption of DST? Can we allow the states to choose what they want to use?
Not American, so I don’t give a fuck what mess you have going down there.
To quote MIB, people are stupid, and they’ll take the wrong decision if you let them. Your disdain of scientists is proof enough.
Those that believe this leads to shorter works days are out of their minds and not paying attention at all.
What do you mean by “this”? The only mention of shorter work days I see in the post is the OOP wanting them.
It’s assumed that there will be shorter work days.
Well, yes, if people enforce shorter working days there will be shorter working days.
Do you find issue with this?
True, but I doubt there are very many. The appeal of daylight saving time is having more sunny time between work and dusk, with dark mornings apparently being an acceptable tradeoff. The part of that tradeoff people don’t grasp is that there are more car accidents during darkness, which means more injuries and death. The approach that would inflict the least number of dark commutes is to have standard time all year. Year-round daylight saving time is the worst.
It’s how humans have existed for 99.9% of our time on this planet, and how we’ll exist against after the collapse of capitalism and the dogma of infinite growth.
