- cross-posted to:
- funny@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- funny@lemmy.ml
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A chicken egg came before the chicken because it is the same animal and the egg stage is earlier than the adult stage.
TIL the first chicken egg wasn’t laid by a chicken
if you want something crazier, look into ring species. where different species of animals have all their in-between species still alive and mate with each other, but the ones at the extremes cant mate with each other
Yeah one of my favorite ones is how donkeys and horses can mate for mules but some of those mules will be able to make with either eachother or one of the two parent species but not both, but most mules are infertile.
All mutations are birthed by the unmutated.
Differently mutated
All animals are mutated, some are more mutated than others
*Magneto is typing*
It’s really a question of creationism vs evolution… God would’ve created the chicken first
Something something mysterious ways.
Oh wow, this is much simpler explanation than the obtuse one I use: “1st chicken ever definitely came from an egg but the creature that laid that egg wasn’t a chicken.”
That depends on semantics.
Is a chicken egg an egg laid by a chicken, or an egg that hatches a chicken?
The answer to that question changes the answer to the original question
Who introduced “chicken egg”? The original question just says egg.
I get that that’s the premise of the joke.
But that not the premise of the dilemma, which pretty clearly implies it’s a chicken egg.The dilemma would have no meaning of it was “what came first? The chicken or the horseshoe crab egg?”
I’ve just assumed the dilemma was older than Darwin.
For sure just look at the framing, chicken egg = chicken. But since we’re in the future we know chicken egg does not mean a chicken laid it.
OK but what did the first egg laying animal come out of.
Some non-egg laying animal gave birth to an egg laying animal due to a beneficial mutation. So the “chicken” (or rather, any egg laying animal) came first.
I’m laughing my ass off rn because I’m imagining this process happening today like imagine giving birth to your daughter the normal way and she gives birth by laying eggs
Not exactly, they produced eggs just not with the hard outer shell built for dry air filled environment. THATS where the next land dwelling being came from.
Yeah but in the same way we extend the discussion to be “egg laying creature” instead of chicken, we can extend it to “any sort of shelled baby” from egg and the logic still holds.
I disagree, i think a chicken is the animal that comes from an egg and then lays an egg (to start the cycle anew).
If the first animal you call a chicken isnt hatched from an egg then i think its not a chicken, but a predecessor.That chicken’s parent laid an egg though so it wasn’t the first egg laying animal.
Correct, not the first egg laying animal, however the first chicken was hatched from a chicken egg.
No, I don’t think I’d agree. Something gave birth to something with a mutation that caused it to lay eggs that we’d call chicken eggs that produce chicken. Itself was born from a creature that didn’t lay chicken eggs.
Well now i think im inclined to agree with you.
I have been defining it as a true chicken is the animal that came from the egg and reproduces the same animal in egg form.But if you were to say instead that the final mutation that created the gentically distinct animal we call a chicken, would still be that animal regardless of how it was created.
Similar to if a chain of self replicating robots is traced back to the origonal unit, its still a self replicating robot even if the first was built by hands.
Even if you’re talking about chicken eggs specifically it’s still the egg first. The first chicken egg would have been laid by a proto chicken
I don’t think It’s that clear, are eggs named by what created them, or what they contain? I could certainly see an argument that the first chicken hatched from a proto-chicken egg
Ok, but does it matter what it’s called? If it contains a modern chicken, and it’s an egg, whether it’s a chicken egg, or a proto chicken egg is debatable. But the egg definitely came first
Not if we are specifically asking about whether the chicken or the chicken egg came first (which is what the original comment in this chain implied), because if proto-chickens lay proto-chicken eggs and a chicken was hatched out of one, then the chicken came before the chicken egg
Sure but that’s changing the question, the original question is “which came first, the chicken or the egg” not “the chicken or the chicken egg” so the answer to the question, as posed, is definitely: the egg
??? You yourself said “even if we are talking about chicken eggs, it is still the egg first” and I was making a point against that.
I feel like this kinda answer just shows you haven’t really thought about the problem in depth.
I feel like this kinda answer just shows you haven’t really thought about the problem in depth.
I feel like this kinda answer just shows you haven’t really thought about the problem in depth.
But is it a chicken egg because it hatches into a chicken or because it is laid by a chicken?
Because it hatches into a chicken, you’re thinking of a chicken’s egg
“chicken’s egg” is the owner of the egg the chicken inside it, or the one who laid it?
Likewise it’s not clear that “chicken egg” refers to the creator of the egg or the inhabitant of it.Pretending for the sake of semantic argument that any of these scenarios were possible:
If an alligator laid an egg and a chicken came out, was that a chicken egg?
If a chicken laid an egg and an alligator came out, was that a chicken egg?But now consider, you know what I mean by the following phrase:
“An alligator laid a chicken egg, and an alligator hatched out of it”One who laid it. Yes it is, it’s the inhabitant. Yes. No. You mean alligator egg, not chicken egg.
“you mean alligator egg”
No, I didn’t. And yet you still likely understand what I mean, or get close enough to what I mean that it doesn’t matter, unless you’re being intentionally obstinate.
And what do you think of the idea that the egg is simply a phase in the life of an animal, that the chicken is the egg it hatched from, not just the former inhabitant? In this case how can the egg be owned by the animal that laid it if it is itself an animal?
Like the caterpillar is the chrysalis is the butterfly, the chicken is the egg.If it hatches into an alligator then it’s an alligator egg, so yeah you did mean alligator egg. I actually don’t know what you mean, because what you described doesn’t make sense.
And I do think think that, it belongs to that creature just like you belong to your mom and vice versa. If somone pointed at your mom and said “that’s PeriodicallyPedantic’s mom” and you said “Aha! But how can she be mine when she’s a different person!”, they’d probably just say “the fuck you on about”.
I honestly do not believe that when I said that, you not only didn’t but we’re unable to imagine an egg that by all properties confirmed to the expectations of a chicken egg until an alligator miraculously hatched out of it.
I do not believe you’re debating in good faith
Wait, so is an unfertilized egg referred to as a chicken’s egg, and never a chicken egg?
it contains the DNA of a chicken, if not a viable chicken embryo
I fool-proofed the question…“Which came first, the egg of a chicken, or the chicken?”. And you can’t say they use eggs in dinosaur shaped pasta. /s
In that case the chicken came first, regardless of how we define “chicken”, we can reuse that definition for the first “chicken egg” it laid.
But how do we define a “chicken egg”? Is it an egg containing a chicken, or an egg that’s been laid by a chicken?
God creates eggs. Eggs create dinosaurs. God kills dinosaurs. Eggs inherit the Earth
edit I did it. I forgot the chicken
Everyone here seems to be missing the point of the question. The chicken isn’t the key point. It stands in for all egg laying animals. To rephrase the question: how is it possible that an early species was able to develop egg laying abilities, considering the problem of that animal not having been born from an egg? I suspect the real answer has something to do with fish …
- Shells are soft gloopy things laid in lakes
- Evolutionary advantage: Eggs laid on the edge of lakes away from water predators
- Evolutionary advantage: Harder eggs survive longer further out of water
- Evolutionary advantage: Harder land eggs give rise to amphibous/land animals
- Evolutionary advantage: Amphibous/land animals lay land eggs
- etc.
I’ve always understood this debate as a veiled religious thing. Chicken = religion, god creates chickens; or Egg = science, animals are products of evolution, and thus naturally the egg must come first.
