It’s not that they’re identical, or that they share 100% of the same policies, they do have differences, but democrats still supported genocide in Gaza, they supported intervention in Iran, they support US imperialism, and most importantly, they’re bought and owned by the ruling class, so they will never address the underlying material conditions which cause fascism to take root. Trump is terrible, but the democrats made a Trump inevitable. We need real change to prevent fascism in the future. Continuing to vote blue no matter who makes everything worse.
This criticism is fixed by primaries, not the vote in the general election. This comic is criticizing the latter act. South Park is right about that one.
Carter was a neoliberal who paved the path towards fascism that we are now walking on. He undermined FDR’s New Deal style policies, weakened labor unions and normalized austerity and pro-market, anti-regulatory reforms that his successor, Reagan, milked the shit out of. But, yes, he performatively put solar panels on the roof of the White House. You make my point for me.
People in this thread really do sure love telling me what my point is and getting it completely wrong somehow despite my having written literally thousands of words explaining my point today.
My point is that there are only marginal differences between the Republicans and the Democrats, and that a stance of “Vote Blue, No Matter Who” is a completely ineffective measure of harm reduction in the long run, and actually makes things worse.
Also, what “multiple genocides” are you referring to? I have some ideas but I don’t want to jump to conclusions.
You need to have a foothold somewhere to stop this slide into dictatorship and your only chance to get it is a democratic leadership. You will never see change in the US if you think that it has to be 100 or nothing. It’s not a single issue thing. This whole discussion is absolutely maddening from an outside perspective.
So, I hate to be that guy, but the dems get a chance every 4 years or so, and yet here we are. It seems that the democratic leaderships of the past haven’t really prevented the slow and continuous slide to fascism. And please do note that every dem president and candidate is more right wing than the previous ones. They’re sliding too.
I think a democratic leadership might be able to arrest the slide towards a dictatorship, but the chance of that is quite low - it would require a socialist to win the democratic nomination, and I just don’t see that happening. Anything less than a socialist would inadequately address the underlying material conditions which foment fascism, so there would be four years of neoliberalism or moderate social democracy or whatever - another four years of worsening conditions among the working class - thereafter, the authoritarian dictatorship would come into power.
I think the best way - probably, the only way - to prevent dictatorship would be for the working class to continue organizing and building a people-led direct action movement, like the Black Panther Party did.
I think the best way - probably, the only way - to prevent dictatorship would be for the working class to continue organizing and building a people-led direct action movement, like the Black Panther Party did.
Except there is no chance of this happening once the republicans have fully established their totalitarian regime. You will just get gunned down in the street at best or shipped off to a camp at worst.
Authoritarian regimes are only ever toppled by resistance movements like this, but they’re MUCH harder to build once the authoritarian regime tightens its grip. That’s why we need to do it now, instead of wasting time campaigning for Gavin Newsom or whatever fucking ghoul the democrats nominate.
Authoritarian regimes are only ever toppled by resistance movements like this
This is patently false. Remember Nazi Germany? My Grandparents sure do. There are countless other examples of dictatorships solidifying their grasp and unless there are outside factors, the population will never revolt or be unable to do so. The brain washing will continue until there is nobody left who even thinks of resistance. You have a small window to regain control now, so use it. Nobody will come to help you.
Yeah, that’s a fair point, although, Nazi Germany was toppled by literal communists and there were very successful resistance and partisan movements throughout the regime.
The brain washing will continue until there is nobody left who even thinks of resistance.
I don’t think that’s true. At the risk of being cringe, I’ll quote Nemik’s manifesto from Star Wars Andor:
There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy. Remember this. Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the galaxy. There are whole armies, battalions that have no idea that they’ve already enlisted in the cause. Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward. And then remember this. The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. Remember that. And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and battles, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Empire’s authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege. Remember this. Try.
Authoritarian regimes are generally quite unstable compared to democracies, because humans naturally resist being oppressed. You’re totally right that it’s harder and that we need to organize now, and that’s what I’m trying to encourage people to do.
This is leaving out so much that it’s not really the truth.
and there were very successful resistance and partisan movements throughout the regime
This only happened in the occupied countries and it is debatable how much of a threat these movements really were. While they contributed, they were not what won the war in the end and most likely would’ve been squashed like all the other local uprisings before. Had Germany put all the focus inside their own borders and had the US and USSR not gotten involved, they never would’ve stopped. Which is precisely the situation in the US right now. There will not be any external factors to bring the military down. It will be like Russia or North Korea if you allow this to continue. There is no real resistance in countries like this, everyone falls in line eventually.
You’re totally right that it’s harder and that we need to organize now, and that’s what I’m trying to encourage people to do
Good, so start with the next best thing, voting for a Democrat who at least respects the constitution. Anything else is unrealistic at this point. You have to make a first step into the right direction before you can even think about realizing your final goals. Real change takes many, you can never just jump to the end of the line.
Idk when one guy is saying he’ll suspend the constitution and the media is lockstep behind gaslighting everyone about project 2025, I think you should be asking yourself why the billionaire owned media is almost entirely siding with republicans.
I voted 3rd party for 20 years, but I stopped when Trump came to power. It’s not a 10% difference any more. It’s the difference between living in a free and democratic country and living in a fascist dictatorship.
I don’t think OP was suggesting voting third party… America hasn’t had a democracy that works for the majority of the people, for a very long time. The ruling class is not going to let you change the system. Time to think differently.
Sure, but if you genuinely believe this, then you need to be in the streets, breaking the law, and overthrowing the establishment. I’ve got mad respect for people who are willing to do that. I’ve got respect for people who are willing to vote to keep trump and other far right fascists out of power. I’ve got no respect for someone who doesn’t vote, or votes 3rd party when literally everything is on the line, and then grandstands about it on the internet like they are fucking hero. Those morons risked everything for a chance to gain nothing, and the rest of us are stuck with the results of their 20 IQ bet.
If Dems were in power now, they’d do fascism too. The economic contradictions have simply increased to a point where fascism is necessary for capitalism to remain profitable for the ultra rich.
This is not useful. You again dodged their meaning and avoided engaging. No where is completely free and the road between democracy and fascism is a spectrum. They obviously articulated that this administration is stripping away freedoms.
Personally, I think correcting misinformation is very important, especially when it’s around such an important topic like “is my nation’s government democratically elected” and “am I free”, especially especially when the answer to both is “no”, so yeah, I think it is useful, actually, but of course, you’re welcome to disagree.
I’m not denying that the Trump administration is terrible. I do disagree that “it’s not a 10% difference anymore”, I’d say it’s probably closer to a 5% difference, if even that. The thing is, if you’re privileged enough, it’s very, very hard to really understand that, because you’ve never really been properly exposed to it - for example, through homelessness - so that’s a very difficult (probably impossible) position to convince someone out of. That’s why I didn’t really address it, because there’s not really any productive conversations to be had there.
I genuinely appreciate the thoughtful and respectful feedback, though. Thanks <3
Again, talking past someone. It’s not close, engaging in war without Congress, using the purse without Congress are drastic and alarming departures from the norm.
You’re using sweeping generalizations to vindicate doing nothing.
I don’t see how I’m talking past you, I directly addressed the argument. The differences between the democrats and the republicans are mainly aesthetic and procedural. The whole “no war without a vote in congress” is a great example, they’re not mad that kids are being blown up, they’re mad that the proper procedure to blow up kids was not followed.
I’m not using sweeping generalizations and I’m not doing nothing. I’m encouraging people to get involved with activism and it’s people like you throwing a tantrum about that because I am daring to question your world view.
If you have an argument, then make it. I’m done with the meta-argument.
You started out by saying that America wasn’t a democracy, while technically true, is pedantic at best and dismissed the nuance of the original comment.
Then when I point out your lack of nuance and boiled down their argument so you could understand it, you explained it as “pointing out misinformation” and perhaps innocent, it seems like dismissal when taken with the original comment I don’t see how a reasonable individual wouldn’t know they were using it informally to refer to their Congressional system.
That’s awesome that you want people to be involved in activism but activism does not and should not proclude voting for progressive candidates and perpetuating that it’s a lost cause will not win any battles.
I used to think this way in the '90s. But anyone today who can look at Trump and say he’s the same as the Dems is fucking delusional.
That would be a weird thing to say indeed. No one’s saying that though.
Are you new here?
My guy, that is the meaning of the meme in the post.
It’s not that they’re identical, or that they share 100% of the same policies, they do have differences, but democrats still supported genocide in Gaza, they supported intervention in Iran, they support US imperialism, and most importantly, they’re bought and owned by the ruling class, so they will never address the underlying material conditions which cause fascism to take root. Trump is terrible, but the democrats made a Trump inevitable. We need real change to prevent fascism in the future. Continuing to vote blue no matter who makes everything worse.
This criticism is fixed by primaries, not the vote in the general election. This comic is criticizing the latter act. South Park is right about that one.
So, no difference between one genocide and WW3?
He’s not saying that.
Re-read my comment, concentrate, and try again
. Continuing to vote blue no matter who makes everything worse.
Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House in 1976. Every Dem candidate since Jimmy has been close to him politically.
Back in 1976 people were being told not to vote for Carter because he wasn’t strongly against the racist South African regime.
People like that were wrong then and you’re wrong now. “Not perfect” is much better than “truly evil.”
Carter was a neoliberal who paved the path towards fascism that we are now walking on. He undermined FDR’s New Deal style policies, weakened labor unions and normalized austerity and pro-market, anti-regulatory reforms that his successor, Reagan, milked the shit out of. But, yes, he performatively put solar panels on the roof of the White House. You make my point for me.
Yes, because your point was that there’s no difference between one genocide in Gaza and multiple genocides all over the world.
People in this thread really do sure love telling me what my point is and getting it completely wrong somehow despite my having written literally thousands of words explaining my point today.
My point is that there are only marginal differences between the Republicans and the Democrats, and that a stance of “Vote Blue, No Matter Who” is a completely ineffective measure of harm reduction in the long run, and actually makes things worse.
Also, what “multiple genocides” are you referring to? I have some ideas but I don’t want to jump to conclusions.
Also, what “multiple genocides” are you referring to?
I was going to make some sort of sarcastic reply, but I’ll just let your question speak for itself.
You need to have a foothold somewhere to stop this slide into dictatorship and your only chance to get it is a democratic leadership. You will never see change in the US if you think that it has to be 100 or nothing. It’s not a single issue thing. This whole discussion is absolutely maddening from an outside perspective.
So, I hate to be that guy, but the dems get a chance every 4 years or so, and yet here we are. It seems that the democratic leaderships of the past haven’t really prevented the slow and continuous slide to fascism. And please do note that every dem president and candidate is more right wing than the previous ones. They’re sliding too.
I think a democratic leadership might be able to arrest the slide towards a dictatorship, but the chance of that is quite low - it would require a socialist to win the democratic nomination, and I just don’t see that happening. Anything less than a socialist would inadequately address the underlying material conditions which foment fascism, so there would be four years of neoliberalism or moderate social democracy or whatever - another four years of worsening conditions among the working class - thereafter, the authoritarian dictatorship would come into power.
I think the best way - probably, the only way - to prevent dictatorship would be for the working class to continue organizing and building a people-led direct action movement, like the Black Panther Party did.
Except there is no chance of this happening once the republicans have fully established their totalitarian regime. You will just get gunned down in the street at best or shipped off to a camp at worst.
Authoritarian regimes are only ever toppled by resistance movements like this, but they’re MUCH harder to build once the authoritarian regime tightens its grip. That’s why we need to do it now, instead of wasting time campaigning for Gavin Newsom or whatever fucking ghoul the democrats nominate.
This is patently false. Remember Nazi Germany? My Grandparents sure do. There are countless other examples of dictatorships solidifying their grasp and unless there are outside factors, the population will never revolt or be unable to do so. The brain washing will continue until there is nobody left who even thinks of resistance. You have a small window to regain control now, so use it. Nobody will come to help you.
Yeah, that’s a fair point, although, Nazi Germany was toppled by literal communists and there were very successful resistance and partisan movements throughout the regime.
I don’t think that’s true. At the risk of being cringe, I’ll quote Nemik’s manifesto from Star Wars Andor:
Authoritarian regimes are generally quite unstable compared to democracies, because humans naturally resist being oppressed. You’re totally right that it’s harder and that we need to organize now, and that’s what I’m trying to encourage people to do.
This is leaving out so much that it’s not really the truth.
This only happened in the occupied countries and it is debatable how much of a threat these movements really were. While they contributed, they were not what won the war in the end and most likely would’ve been squashed like all the other local uprisings before. Had Germany put all the focus inside their own borders and had the US and USSR not gotten involved, they never would’ve stopped. Which is precisely the situation in the US right now. There will not be any external factors to bring the military down. It will be like Russia or North Korea if you allow this to continue. There is no real resistance in countries like this, everyone falls in line eventually.
Good, so start with the next best thing, voting for a Democrat who at least respects the constitution. Anything else is unrealistic at this point. You have to make a first step into the right direction before you can even think about realizing your final goals. Real change takes many, you can never just jump to the end of the line.
Idk when one guy is saying he’ll suspend the constitution and the media is lockstep behind gaslighting everyone about project 2025, I think you should be asking yourself why the billionaire owned media is almost entirely siding with republicans.
I voted 3rd party for 20 years, but I stopped when Trump came to power. It’s not a 10% difference any more. It’s the difference between living in a free and democratic country and living in a fascist dictatorship.
I don’t think OP was suggesting voting third party… America hasn’t had a democracy that works for the majority of the people, for a very long time. The ruling class is not going to let you change the system. Time to think differently.
Sure, but if you genuinely believe this, then you need to be in the streets, breaking the law, and overthrowing the establishment. I’ve got mad respect for people who are willing to do that. I’ve got respect for people who are willing to vote to keep trump and other far right fascists out of power. I’ve got no respect for someone who doesn’t vote, or votes 3rd party when literally everything is on the line, and then grandstands about it on the internet like they are fucking hero. Those morons risked everything for a chance to gain nothing, and the rest of us are stuck with the results of their 20 IQ bet.
Same
If Dems were in power now, they’d do fascism too. The economic contradictions have simply increased to a point where fascism is necessary for capitalism to remain profitable for the ultra rich.
I mean maybe, but well never know for sure because Americans voted for the people who outright stated “get in loser we’re going fascist”
The US has never been free nor democratic
This is not useful. You again dodged their meaning and avoided engaging. No where is completely free and the road between democracy and fascism is a spectrum. They obviously articulated that this administration is stripping away freedoms.
Personally, I think correcting misinformation is very important, especially when it’s around such an important topic like “is my nation’s government democratically elected” and “am I free”, especially especially when the answer to both is “no”, so yeah, I think it is useful, actually, but of course, you’re welcome to disagree.
I’m not denying that the Trump administration is terrible. I do disagree that “it’s not a 10% difference anymore”, I’d say it’s probably closer to a 5% difference, if even that. The thing is, if you’re privileged enough, it’s very, very hard to really understand that, because you’ve never really been properly exposed to it - for example, through homelessness - so that’s a very difficult (probably impossible) position to convince someone out of. That’s why I didn’t really address it, because there’s not really any productive conversations to be had there.
I genuinely appreciate the thoughtful and respectful feedback, though. Thanks <3
Again, talking past someone. It’s not close, engaging in war without Congress, using the purse without Congress are drastic and alarming departures from the norm.
You’re using sweeping generalizations to vindicate doing nothing.
I don’t see how I’m talking past you, I directly addressed the argument. The differences between the democrats and the republicans are mainly aesthetic and procedural. The whole “no war without a vote in congress” is a great example, they’re not mad that kids are being blown up, they’re mad that the proper procedure to blow up kids was not followed.
I’m not using sweeping generalizations and I’m not doing nothing. I’m encouraging people to get involved with activism and it’s people like you throwing a tantrum about that because I am daring to question your world view.
If you have an argument, then make it. I’m done with the meta-argument.
You started out by saying that America wasn’t a democracy, while technically true, is pedantic at best and dismissed the nuance of the original comment.
Then when I point out your lack of nuance and boiled down their argument so you could understand it, you explained it as “pointing out misinformation” and perhaps innocent, it seems like dismissal when taken with the original comment I don’t see how a reasonable individual wouldn’t know they were using it informally to refer to their Congressional system.
That’s awesome that you want people to be involved in activism but activism does not and should not proclude voting for progressive candidates and perpetuating that it’s a lost cause will not win any battles.