According to Rimu, the main developer of PieFed, all PieFed instances come with a 3000-long block list of resources that cannot be linked to. These include all sorts of right-wing outlets. There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
The flagship PieFed instance also rolled out a feature marking various other sorts of outlets - among them, resources considered AI slop and Marxist outlets. These are specific to piefed.social.
Related discussion: https://piefed.social/comment/11254679
Why YSK: Many users have hard time choosing between Lemmy, PieFed, and Kbin/Mbin. Users that prefer a more curated and politically uniform experience might prefer PieFed over the alternatives. Users that are right-wing, Marxist, or generally concerned about global censorship of the Fedi-/Threadiverse, might opt for other options instead.
Note: The post is only meant to inform users of the potentially important differences between Threadiverse platforms. Any ideologically charged discussions are better left in the respective topic.
I need to tack on a moderator blurb to this post. I received a report from Rimu that this post doxxed them. While it does appear the original post contained Rimu’s full name, I do not believe this qualifies as doxxing.
While posting someone’s full name typically would be, Rimu has completely subverted their own expectation of privacy by publicly linking their full name with their development work on Piefed. Their username is even their real first name. I do not believe you can doxx someone who already did it to themselves.
This information is publicly available, and it was made so by Rimu themselves.
Not only is this not doxxing but under these circumstances it smacks of a half hearted attempt at censorship. Rimu made themselves a public figure. You cannot post their address, or other personal information, but their name is fair game by their own choice.
Indeed, removing his full name is more of a good faith act. I don’t think much is to be achieved by leaving it anyway, so if someone is so discomforted by it that they ask for the removal - alright, I will. After all, we all need to remain good neighbors around here.
But, as you said, leaving your full name out in public and then trying to make it never see the light on the Threadiverse specifically is very inconsistent, and will likely fail at some point.
No, very probably not all PieFed instances, and AFAIK the socialist sites are not in that list of defaults.
If you’re going to make public accusations, please don’t sabotage yourself by making incorrect or imprecise claims.
Users that prefer a more curated and politically uniform experience might prefer PieFed over the alternatives.
There’s no reason to think that. I’d argue that Lemmygrad is more curated and politically uniform than any PieFed instance is.
Politically uniform means right-wing and liberal to USAmericans
this sentence makes no sense in this context
the list for the curious. I don’t mind if rimu wants to maintain a default blocklist, if I maintained my own fediverse app I would probably make something similar, based on my own preferences, to cut down on the mod work. If you want your piefed instance to allow botfarm produce, disable the blocklist or just fork it and live your dream.
Who is rimu
He’s the maintainer for piefed.
Why does he post on powertrippingbastards or is that a different rimu
Dunno. I think it’s the same guy.
The fact that it includes wikileaks tells me everything I need to know.
That it recognizes Russian state media as Conservative disinformation and propaganda? Yeah, me too.
Remember when they didn’t release the rnc emails they hacked, but did release the dnc’s? Tell me why that is you think. Be honest with yourself.
When did the definition of misinformation expand to include saying true things? Should we block the Epstein files from being posted because only part of them has been released?
It enters the realm of mis-, even disinformation when true statements that contradict a narrative are actively repressed.
Selective truth can easily be a lie.
What is and isn’t selective depends on your perspective. You’re moving into the question of what counts as relevant and important, which is inherently ideological.
If country A launches a missile at country B, then it’s probably relevant if country B launched a missile yesterday, which would frame country A as retaliating. But if country A launched a missile a week ago, do you also include that? What about actions from a year or more ago? What about inflammatory rhetoric, or broken promises? What about differences in military might, or economic interests like oil?
Every source has to make decisions about what to include and what not to include, and there’s no objective basis to do so. To try to apply the label of “misinformation” in that context is just censoring narratives and perspectives that are out of line with your own.
I could easily point out the biased reporting of The New York Times on various issues like Palestine or trans people (which in several cases have gone into overt misinformation). But I’d rather be able to see and discuss that source while understanding what it’s biases are, rather than writing it off completely and potentially missing out on actual information. You don’t just block every source you disagree with.
Sometimes I feel like liberals fundamentally misunderstand how sources work, sorting them into “good” or “bad” and leaving no room for nuance. Sources can be reliable about one thing but not another, and there’s no such thing as a source with no bias.
I notice you didn’t answer the question.
I notice you haven’t apologized for removing the people calling out bad faith users on .world but didn’t remove the people spreading misinfo about the people calling out bad faith users.
Because it doesn’t matter.
A source that provides exclusive, true information about politicians, but that also has a political bias, is not something that should be blocked outright as though it were misinformation. Otherwise you’d have to block just about every source.
I mean, hell. I sometimes watch John Oliver despite disagreeing with some of his politics and considering him to present a biased or incomplete picture of certain subjects, because I sometimes learn about true things I would not have otherwise been informed about. I’ll criticize him, but I’m not going to call for him to be blocked, especially not in the code like this.
At a certain point, you’re just censoring proven facts, just on the basis of who said them.
Yes, because Fox News is known for their facts. (No one mention the court case.)
Who was talking about Fox News? I thought we were discussing WikiLeaks.
No I don’t, would you mind linking a citation on this claim?
Any source on this?
For those who really like the idea of blocking the sites on that list, the linked github repo also has it formatted for pihole and the like.
I scrolled the list until about the P, at which point I accidentally tapped on the top portion of my screen and went all the way back up.
Notably the block list includes Harry Potter affiliated sites, Fox News, and Info Wars.
Everything else pretty much just looks like slop or are sources I’ve NEVER heard of. Some were local papers, I think? But none that I would have recognized immediately.
This really seems like a mountain made out of a molehill.
It’s a molehill that’s threatening to become a mountain. I wouldn’t trust I always agree with this person.
Pravada’s domains were on there which is one I was looking for. I didn’t see South China Morning Post on the list, which is unfortunate; otherwise though, I think it’s a solid list.
It will be an absolute nightmare keeping it up, given how quickly bad-faith actors are setting up fake local and regional news outlets.
This really seems like a mountain made out of a molehill.
unless you are interested in spreading the same kind of ideas that are on those sites, like IDK, CCP propaganda, or far right deals, or transphobia.
There are tons of spam factories that pose as local newspapers. The first one that comes to mind is the Denver Guardian, which gained brief notoriety during Trump’s rise to power. But there are a million of them, probably literally. They are easy to make and they are easy to launder through social media bot networks.
Yeah, I saw some sources for a city local to me, but they didn’t match for our actual local paper or papers.
Which was weird.
That explains a lot.
most of those fake local ‘news’ farms are spouting far-right or extremist views.
Why block InfoWars? Tim Heidecker is a treasure.
/s
Dang I gotta show Rimu the American owned Canadian blight known as Post Media. Everything they own should be on there.
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Neither Lemmy nor PieFed puts locks on anything, other than what an instance’s admins choose to put on them. One might try to argue that PieFed’s optional default blocklist is a bridge too far, but that’s about it.
what are the differences? i signed up with this instance but am still learning.
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Piefed isn’t a fork of Lemmy, it’s completely independent code. They just speak the same language.
so they’re both hosts that serve and share content using the same protocol?
Same backend, different frontend
gotcha. thx.
No they are different backends, they just use the same protocol.
Teseraract, Photon, and Mlmym are different frontends for Lemmy.
PieFed has completely separate frontend and backend code from Lemmy’s code.
Yes they are completely different front and backends but they use the same protocol (ActivityPub).
Mbin exists, but it never seems to get as much attention :/
So join a different instance or deploy your own server. We don’t need a third alternative. All are interconnected via ActivityPub, so you can choose what blocks you want, who you want to federate with, etc.
If you’re choosing to sign up on someone’s instance you’re choosing to agree to how they’re managing it.
That’s frankly why I like Lemmy.zip, the only time they’ve defederated is for a technical issue was was causing the servers to crash. Beyond that, I’m treated like an adult capable of making my own choices of which instances I want to block or interact with.
i know right, tankies love to say they are being censored like CONSERVATIVES, but they would censor you in return without a single thought.
People are not children who need child locks put on their internet.
Except it seems like we do since these platforms have propagandized an entire generation towards far right ideologies.
Since you proclaim to be a Leftist, what’s wrong with Lemmy?
Feel free to self-host and empty the blocklist. As for the far-left and far-right, they love censorship.
What’s the far-left?
The modern far-left distinguishes itself from social democracy through its inherent opposition to capitalism, neoliberalism, and globalisation. While anarchist strains of far-left thought are anti-authoritarian in nature, and most far-left schools of thought aim at a classless, stateless society
Terrifying!
Thankfully they’re too busy being more-far-left than the other guy to actually organize
Far-left politics are politics further to the left on the political spectrum than the standard political left. The far-left encompasses a wide range of heterogeneous ideologies, including anarchism, communism, and Marxism; it includes groups that advocate for revolutionary socialism and related communist ideologies, as well as anti-capitalism and anti-globalisation. The modern far-left distinguishes itself from social democracy through its inherent opposition to capitalism, neoliberalism, and globalisation. While anarchist strains of far-left thought are anti-authoritarian in nature, and most far-left schools of thought aim at a classless, stateless society, Leninist-led revolutions have imposed authoritarian rule in practice.
Sounds good tbh. Well, except for the authoritarian bullshit of course.
‘Authoritarian’ is a meaningless buzzword. There is no definition of it that includes ‘authoritarian’ countries while excluding non’authoritarian’ countries.
Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom.
Pretty succinct actually.
Cool, so China, Cuba, Russia isn’t authoritarian?
Of course they are authoritarian.
Can’t call conservatives retarded or leftist mods will delete the comment
the horror
It’s an enormous cult of political loonies
Not a good look. I can empathize with not wanting right wing propaganda machines to profit from your work but it should at least be opt in and not curated by a single person.
According to Rimu Atkinson, the main developer of PieFed, all PieFed instances come with a 3000-long block list of resources that cannot be linked to. These include all sorts of right-wing outlets. There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
I support blocking propaganda and fascism, however this is just censorship imo. This could be a good feature, IF the ultimate choice is on the instances and its users on if they want to have it enabled or not by default, not from the developer and “on all instances with no easy opt-out”
I don’t even support blocking propaganda and fascism. Maybe you could block malware sites, but even that’s a push. Let moderators of individual communities figure it out, otherwise you’re just going to turn whole instances into echo chambers.
I’d say that block in general is a bit much, this can be nice if it can be used as a similar feature to “hide bot posts”, so users have the choice on if they want to hide or show those posts with the blocked link in them. Meanwhile each instances can decide what the default is, on or off, but the end user can decide how they want
Piefed dev’s I talked to said they can decide to allow or disallow instances at least even as many come preblocked.
My main issue with this actually is its controlled at the instance level. I actually have said I am fine with a default block list as long as it can be changed later. Its understandable that someone having an instance would want a good default experience form their perspective and I can even see it at the code level in this case. I have a few caveats though that make it troublesome for me. One it should be highly advertised or easy to peruse and change. Bigger though is as a user I want as much as possible to be controllable at the user level. So I want to be able to reverse this for myself. I completely understand defederation for legal reasons and the ideal instance for me would deferederat based on that, but I would completely appreciate a default block list for my user that I could then go through and revers if I cared to. I was actually aware of this and do intend to get off my tuckus and move instances because I can’t control the blocks but Im lazy and honestly I have no real incentive to unblock any of these but rather on philosophical grounds want the ability to do so. Im kinda hoping the software will evolve to allow a more direct user control like that before I move but its been awhile and I sorta doubt at this point that is going to happen.
I don’t need to agree with the sites to know this isn’t a good idea. The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
Should be an opt in.
The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
but then again, you repeat yourself
Okay yeah it’s junk but this is just division
you dont think someone posting about how fox news is reporting on something could be relevant? simply linking to an article is not always the poster agreeing with the reporting.
you dont think someone posting about how fox news is reporting on something could be relevant?
that’s right. If you want to or not, you are propagating the misinformation and helping them by giving them more exposure for their stats, more data for them to sell and more money for them to gain through ads.
EDIT : What is there to learn from a misinformation link? Everyone knows its misinformation.
The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
🤔
Yeah, I stand by what I said lol
That Fox News isn’t junk? Have you been living under a rock for 40 years?
Fox news argued in court that they’re fictional entertainment and no reasonable person would take their reporting seriously.
I get that, but we can’t play the free speech for me, not for thee game
Free Speech means the government shouldn’t prosecute people for their speech, that’s all its ever meant. It doesn’t mean non-government places must allow Nazis to say their piece on your platform. That just turns places into Nazi bars.
This isn’t allowing them on a platform, this is disallowing platforms to choose whether to allow them on a platform based on the opinions of a guy that has endorsed genocide and child rape.
this is disallowing platforms to choose whether to allow them on a platform
The block list is editable by any admin, and the sysadmin can delete the block list entirely.
based on the opinions of a guy that has endorsed genocide and child rape.
Uhh, gonna need a source for that one, Chief.
The block list is editable by any admin, and the sysadmin can delete the block list entirely.
So your choice is trust the genocide guy, spend WEEKS vetting a giant list that is mostly filled with dead links, or have no blocklist?
Gee wilkers I wonder which one most will pick.
https://github.com/rimu/no-qanon/blob/master/domains.txt includes… wikileaks.org 🤦
afaik WikiLeaks still enjoys a spotless accuracy record and obviously has never promoted QAnon.
The fact that some QAnon promoters have themselves cited some WikiLeaks publications is, in my opinion at least, not a reason to prohibit linking to WikiLeaks (a site which hasn’t published anything new recently but continues to host a massive archive of public interest documents).
I expected to see thegrayzone.com and was not disappointed.
They scored yet another vindication this week, this time on the OPCW cover-up of the 2018 Douma, Syria false-flag attack.
Assange cozyed up to Trump during his first presidency (despite, you know, the assassination attempts by the US).
Additionally while Wikileaks has never published any proven false information, they have left out information on purpose. During the 2016 election Wikileaks received information on both Clinton and Trump, but primarily published information making Clinton look worse while not publishing information they received on Trump and the republican party.
This editorializing is why they’ve fallen out of favor over the last decade, again despite not publishing anything known to be false; they chose to withhold information.
they chose to withhold information
citation needed
Sorry the liberal replying made me actually look this up and it turns out it was misinformation spread from liberal accounts. You’re right. Apparently no evidence was ever uncovered that wikileaks ever received the RNC leak that came out a few years after they released the DNC leak; and the majority of Assange’s quotes praising Trump were just wholesale made up by various shareblue linked propaganda sites.
Good job. You should be proud of yourself for making this post.
butterymales VS lack of trump disclosures.
is there any evidence whatsoever, or is this belief that they simply must have received and suppressed some trump-related smoking gun just blueanon dogma?
There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
Totally good-faith summary. Great work.
Funny, I blocked your positivity comm because I kept seeing right wing astro turfers posting in your comms as a way to call out serial down voters and do more trolling than positivity. It’s no surprise we take different approaches to moderation.
I joined piefed to have a healthier experience with my social media and go figure removing a lot of right wing bullshit does wonders!
Given that many “right-wing” sites are full of lies, bigotry, and hate, I think I’m quite fine with this.
Users that are right-wing, Marxist, or generally concerned about global censorship of the Fedi-/Threadiverse, might opt for other options instead.
Based. Fuck accelerationists and fuck nazis.
And you know what, censorship is a problem. But at the moment, the choking permeation of authoritarians is worse, and the authoritarians could use some of their own fucking medicine for a bit until shit calms down.
the authoritarians could use some of their own fucking medicine for a bit
Funny how often this is the way it goes. Almost as if the label of “authoritarian” is essentially meaningless.
Other than the suppression of right-wing, counter-revolutionary views and movements (which you seem to approve of), what exactly is your problem with Marxism?
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
Funny how often this is the way it goes. Almost as if the label of “authoritarian” is essentially meaningless.
Other than the suppression of right-wing, counter-revolutionary views and movements (which you seem to approve of), what exactly is your problem with Marxism?
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
🥸 : Hello fellow leftists in democratic countries with increasing support for fascist aligned parties. Let’s all demonize and vote against the current center left candidates who are the most likely to beat back the authoritarians! Please ignore that I am in no way attempting to engage in any grassroots empowerment of third parties and their eventual path towards replacing the not ideal center left party in your country. Also, my preferred Marxist Lenninist Communist Theorist Authoritarian Left party recieved 4 votes out of a possible trillion last election, but I have a good feeling about this election! Please ignore that my IP address is from Timbuktu, Minsk or Guangdong, and that I get paid to post here 10 hours a day by the FSB/CCP/something else. Only when the current mainstream party is gone, can we replace it with my own hyperspecfic vision of society rebuilt from the ground up on the ashes of the current society. Don’t worry about feeding yourself during this horrible violent phase of our lives, it is necessary to move onto FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM.
Anyone who disagrees is a hyperzionist child eater.
Right-wingers: I think we should spread hate speech towards minorities
Marxists: Fuck that, you shouldn’t be allowed to do that, we shouldn’t be tolerant of intolerance
Liberals/you: How dare you evil Marxists be intolerant and suppress free speech, you shouldn’t be allowed to spread those ideas
I should be the one posting about the “Paradox of Tolerance,” because you clearly don’t understand it.
The rest of your comment is just unhinged conspiracy theory shit.
The rest of your comment is just unhinged conspiracy theory shit.
I’d comment about that’s how .ml operates, but that’s where you’re posting from, so we all know what’s up.
Is there any possible evidence that could falsify your belief that I’m secretly a foreign agent?
Is there any reason to believe that the FSB/CCP have a greater influence over English language discussions than the NSA does? How do I know you’re not getting paid off by them?
But what’s the point in trying to reason with a conspiracy theorist? Your beliefs have no basis on either evidence or reason so there’s no way to change them that way, any more than you could a flat-earther’s.
I don’t give a shit, I said my piece.
you: How dare you evil Marxists be intolerant and suppress free speech, you shouldn’t be allowed to spread those ideas
Literally where did that come from? That completely opposes the entire content of their post.
The part where they’re arguing for Marxists to be censored so that “authoritarians” get a taste of “their own” medicine.
I’m glad you approve of the world as it is right now and hate anything that makes positive change, but leave that to your little echo chamber known as THE ENTIRE PUBLIC INTERNET, and maybe don’t invade left wing spaces with it?
as soon as the authoritarians leave the left wing spaces, sure.
Define authoritarian in any way that includes what you have been brainwashed to believe is an ‘authoritarian’ country, but excludes any country you believe isn’t authoritarian.
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
🥸 : Hello fellow leftists in democratic countries with increasing support for fascist aligned parties. Let’s all demonize and vote against the current center left candidates who are the most likely to beat back the authoritarians! Please ignore that I am in no way attempting to engage in any grassroots empowerment of third parties and their eventual path towards replacing the not ideal center left party in your country. Also, my preferred Marxist Lenninist Communist Theorist Authoritarian Left party recieved 4 votes out of a possible trillion last election, but I have a good feeling about this election! Please ignore that my IP address is from Timbuktu, Minsk or Guangdong, and that I get paid to post here 10 hours a day by the FSB/CCP/something else. Only when the current mainstream party is gone, can we replace it with my own hyperspecfic vision of society rebuilt from the ground up on the ashes of the current society. Don’t worry about feeding yourself during this horrible violent phase of our lives, it is necessary to move onto FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM.
Anyone who disagrees is a hyperzionist child eater.
You’re an enlightened centrist, who the fuck cares about your lazy copypasta.
your mum loves it and I’m not a centrist.
You’re against everyone progressive, and supposedly against anyone right-wing despite spending hundreds of comments defending the right…
are better left
O.o
