According to Rimu Atkinson, the main developer of PieFed, all PieFed instances come with a 3000-long block list of resources that cannot be linked to. These include all sorts of right-wing outlets. There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
The flagship PieFed instance also rolled out a feature marking various other sorts of outlets - among them, resources considered AI slop and Marxist outlets. These are specific to piefed.social.
Related discussion: https://piefed.social/comment/11254679
Why YSK: Many users have hard time choosing between Lemmy, PieFed, and Kbin/Mbin. Users that prefer a more curated and politically uniform experience might prefer PieFed over the alternatives. Users that are right-wing, Marxist, or generally concerned about global censorship of the Fedi-/Threadiverse, might opt for other options instead.
Note: The post is only meant to inform users of the potentially important differences between Threadiverse platforms. Any ideologically charged discussions are better left in the respective topic.
I need to tack on a moderator blurb to this post. I received a report from Rimu that this post doxxed them. While it does appear the original post contained Rimu’s full name, I do not believe this qualifies as doxxing.
While posting someone’s full name typically would be, Rimu has completely subverted their own expectation of privacy by publicly linking their full name with their development work on Piefed. Their username is even their real first name. I do not believe you can doxx someone who already did it to themselves.
This information is publicly available, and it was made so by Rimu themselves.
Not only is this not doxxing but under these circumstances it smacks of a half hearted attempt at censorship. Rimu made themselves a public figure. You cannot post their address, or other personal information, but their name is fair game by their own choice.
Indeed, removing his full name is more of a good faith act. I don’t think much is to be achieved by leaving it anyway, so if someone is so discomforted by it that they ask for the removal - alright, I will. After all, we all need to remain good neighbors around here.
But, as you said, leaving your full name out in public and then trying to make it never see the light on the Threadiverse specifically is very inconsistent, and will likely fail at some point.
Funny, I blocked your positivity comm because I kept seeing right wing astro turfers posting in your comms as a way to call out serial down voters and do more trolling than positivity. It’s no surprise we take different approaches to moderation.
I joined piefed to have a healthier experience with my social media and go figure removing a lot of right wing bullshit does wonders!
good
I don’t need to agree with the sites to know this isn’t a good idea. The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
Should be an opt in.
The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
🤔
Yeah, I stand by what I said lol
That Fox News isn’t junk? Have you been living under a rock for 40 years?
The list is full of junk but it also has sites like fox news.
but then again, you repeat yourself
Okay yeah it’s junk but this is just division
you dont think someone posting about how fox news is reporting on something could be relevant? simply linking to an article is not always the poster agreeing with the reporting.
you dont think someone posting about how fox news is reporting on something could be relevant?
that’s right. If you want to or not, you are propagating the misinformation and helping them by giving them more exposure for their stats, more data for them to sell and more money for them to gain through ads.
EDIT : What is there to learn from a misinformation link? Everyone knows its misinformation.
Fox news argued in court that they’re fictional entertainment and no reasonable person would take their reporting seriously.
I get that, but we can’t play the free speech for me, not for thee game
Free Speech means the government shouldn’t prosecute people for their speech, that’s all its ever meant. It doesn’t mean non-government places must allow Nazis to say their piece on your platform. That just turns places into Nazi bars.
This isn’t allowing them on a platform, this is disallowing platforms to choose whether to allow them on a platform based on the opinions of a guy that has endorsed genocide and child rape.
this is disallowing platforms to choose whether to allow them on a platform
The block list is editable by any admin, and the sysadmin can delete the block list entirely.
based on the opinions of a guy that has endorsed genocide and child rape.
Uhh, gonna need a source for that one, Chief.
The block list is editable by any admin, and the sysadmin can delete the block list entirely.
So your choice is trust the genocide guy, spend WEEKS vetting a giant list that is mostly filled with dead links, or have no blocklist?
Gee wilkers I wonder which one most will pick.
It was only about 15 years ago that censorship was an extreme taboo on the internet. I miss those times deeply.
censorship is when the state does it. Not when individual people decide to program their own open source project in a specific way.
It isn’t censorship though? Just as much as people have the right to speak, others have the right to not have to listen. The beauty of the fediverse is that literally everyone has the right to say what they want, you can join a new instance or make your own but if you start saying stuff that people don’t want to listen to then they can’t be forced to listen.
This isn’t an instance with a block list though. He’s putting it in the software the instance runs, without an opt-out option (besides forking).
So what? Its open source software and subject to what the developer wants. Don’t like it then fork it, remove the offending blocks and run your own, literally exactly the same freedoms offered. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to platform people.
There isn’t a problem, until it’s blocking what you want. I don’t trust all people. If all the users are informed, then fine. This isn’t that. This is trying to by tricky about it. It’s an attempt to control information that he doesn’t like (including leftist information) without clearly saying what’s happening. That’s not OK. It’s fine if you consent. It’s shady trying to sneak it through.
I still can’t find a reason to say it is censorship or sneaky. Isnt the point that it highlights the sources? In which case it isn’t really hiding it. And if you decide you don’t like it then just leave and go elsewhere. I don’t really see a reason why a creator of something has a requirement to be apolitical or make their feelings known. People complain a lot about .ml and lemmy’s creator. Never understood why, nobody is forcing you to participate and stay instead of going elsewhere - and I say that as somebody who was on .ml during the exodus then saw everyone defederating.
I guess i very much see it as creative freedom, it isn’t doing anything malicious and my understanding is that it does expose these blocks to the user when encountered?
Here’s a question: how many users do you think are aware of this? Were you aware of this before the post? If the answer to those is not very high and/or no, it’s not being forward with what it’s doing. If the creator sees it as a feature users would like, and not trying to be sneaky, why wouldn’t they proudly display it?
I don’t use piefed so no, of course I didn’t know or have seen it. And it doesn’t need to be malicious, i would have zero issues morally in suppressing or warning about links to stormfront or infowars and would think nothing of it - the line that somebody draws for themselves is personal and it seems the person making piefed has decided what they think is appropriate for them and their userbase.
ACTUALLY IT’S ABOUT ETHICS IN GAMING JOURNALISM
Yeah… I don’t miss it the slightest. It was so bad that Breadtube came to be in reaction to it.
I miss when fascists stayed on stormfront and left everyone else the fuck alone; and if they ventured outside, everyone hated them until they left.
We made the internet too easy to use…
I mean, we could fuck off to tor and see what boards they have there. I don’t want to be used as an exit node for random highly illegal bullshit
There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
Totally good-faith summary. Great work.
3000 line opt out for a 300 ppl community. seems legit.
are better left
O.o
Given that many “right-wing” sites are full of lies, bigotry, and hate, I think I’m quite fine with this.
Users that are right-wing, Marxist, or generally concerned about global censorship of the Fedi-/Threadiverse, might opt for other options instead.
Based. Fuck accelerationists and fuck nazis.
And you know what, censorship is a problem. But at the moment, the choking permeation of authoritarians is worse, and the authoritarians could use some of their own fucking medicine for a bit until shit calms down.
the authoritarians could use some of their own fucking medicine for a bit
Funny how often this is the way it goes. Almost as if the label of “authoritarian” is essentially meaningless.
Other than the suppression of right-wing, counter-revolutionary views and movements (which you seem to approve of), what exactly is your problem with Marxism?
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
Funny how often this is the way it goes. Almost as if the label of “authoritarian” is essentially meaningless.
Other than the suppression of right-wing, counter-revolutionary views and movements (which you seem to approve of), what exactly is your problem with Marxism?
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
🥸 : Hello fellow leftists in democratic countries with increasing support for fascist aligned parties. Let’s all demonize and vote against the current center left candidates who are the most likely to beat back the authoritarians! Please ignore that I am in no way attempting to engage in any grassroots empowerment of third parties and their eventual path towards replacing the not ideal center left party in your country. Also, my preferred Marxist Lenninist Communist Theorist Authoritarian Left party recieved 4 votes out of a possible trillion last election, but I have a good feeling about this election! Please ignore that my IP address is from Timbuktu, Minsk or Guangdong, and that I get paid to post here 10 hours a day by the FSB/CCP/something else. Only when the current mainstream party is gone, can we replace it with my own hyperspecfic vision of society rebuilt from the ground up on the ashes of the current society. Don’t worry about feeding yourself during this horrible violent phase of our lives, it is necessary to move onto FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM.
Anyone who disagrees is a hyperzionist child eater.
Right-wingers: I think we should spread hate speech towards minorities
Marxists: Fuck that, you shouldn’t be allowed to do that, we shouldn’t be tolerant of intolerance
Liberals/you: How dare you evil Marxists be intolerant and suppress free speech, you shouldn’t be allowed to spread those ideas
I should be the one posting about the “Paradox of Tolerance,” because you clearly don’t understand it.
The rest of your comment is just unhinged conspiracy theory shit.
The rest of your comment is just unhinged conspiracy theory shit.
I’d comment about that’s how .ml operates, but that’s where you’re posting from, so we all know what’s up.
Is there any possible evidence that could falsify your belief that I’m secretly a foreign agent?
Is there any reason to believe that the FSB/CCP have a greater influence over English language discussions than the NSA does? How do I know you’re not getting paid off by them?
But what’s the point in trying to reason with a conspiracy theorist? Your beliefs have no basis on either evidence or reason so there’s no way to change them that way, any more than you could a flat-earther’s.
I don’t give a shit, I said my piece.
you: How dare you evil Marxists be intolerant and suppress free speech, you shouldn’t be allowed to spread those ideas
Literally where did that come from? That completely opposes the entire content of their post.
The part where they’re arguing for Marxists to be censored so that “authoritarians” get a taste of “their own” medicine.
I’m glad you approve of the world as it is right now and hate anything that makes positive change, but leave that to your little echo chamber known as THE ENTIRE PUBLIC INTERNET, and maybe don’t invade left wing spaces with it?
as soon as the authoritarians leave the left wing spaces, sure.
Define authoritarian in any way that includes what you have been brainwashed to believe is an ‘authoritarian’ country, but excludes any country you believe isn’t authoritarian.
Marxists are not “accelerationists” btw.
🥸 : Hello fellow leftists in democratic countries with increasing support for fascist aligned parties. Let’s all demonize and vote against the current center left candidates who are the most likely to beat back the authoritarians! Please ignore that I am in no way attempting to engage in any grassroots empowerment of third parties and their eventual path towards replacing the not ideal center left party in your country. Also, my preferred Marxist Lenninist Communist Theorist Authoritarian Left party recieved 4 votes out of a possible trillion last election, but I have a good feeling about this election! Please ignore that my IP address is from Timbuktu, Minsk or Guangdong, and that I get paid to post here 10 hours a day by the FSB/CCP/something else. Only when the current mainstream party is gone, can we replace it with my own hyperspecfic vision of society rebuilt from the ground up on the ashes of the current society. Don’t worry about feeding yourself during this horrible violent phase of our lives, it is necessary to move onto FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM.
Anyone who disagrees is a hyperzionist child eater.
You’re an enlightened centrist, who the fuck cares about your lazy copypasta.
your mum loves it and I’m not a centrist.
You’re against everyone progressive, and supposedly against anyone right-wing despite spending hundreds of comments defending the right…
No, very probably not all PieFed instances, and AFAIK the socialist sites are not in that list of defaults.
If you’re going to make public accusations, please don’t sabotage yourself by making incorrect or imprecise claims.
Users that prefer a more curated and politically uniform experience might prefer PieFed over the alternatives.
There’s no reason to think that. I’d argue that Lemmygrad is more curated and politically uniform than any PieFed instance is.
Politically uniform means right-wing and liberal to USAmericans
this sentence makes no sense in this context
It’s interesting that a developer thinks they have authority over other people’s instances, while using it to block authoritarian discourse (both right wing and m-l).
What part of having a blocklist for your own instance is asserting authority over other instances?
It’s not for one instance. PieFed’s block list can only be edited by changing the source code. I’m more than in favor if giving instance owners control over their server. If said list was just a default, easily editable from the user (admin) interface, that would be OK. But as it is, it’s an attempt to exert control over other people’s servers, no ifs or buts about it.
citation needed. no one has provided evidence of that and i highly doubt it simply due to the multiple claims by individuals here crying foul claiming multiple versions of how that block list is stored. not to mention, you know, it’d need to be updated periodically.
The commenter is a bit confused. There are two distinct things at play.
This post is about the domain blocklist, which is not mandatory on install—though most new instances choose it—and can be removed by an admin with either the patience or the database skill to remove it.
The other thing at play is the hard-coded list of banned fediverse instances, which are automatically added to the federation blocklist on new instances. These can also be removed by an admin. The list contains far-right & outright fascist instances, threads.com, and two socialist instances: Hexbear & Lemmygrad.
[Edited to fix link.]
smile I assume most of the individuals crying foul here are just generally confused about many things.
we know “tankies” and conservatives cry about being silenced, about not able to produce misinformation and disinformation.
Here is the user interface for unblocking:
Oh, nice! It’s good to see progress. So this line from OP:
there is no easy opt-out
Is outdated? All 3k+ addresses can be removed from this interface?
If they want to click 3000 buttons, yes. These buttons are not new functionality, it’s been like that since the beginning.
Easier just to empty the relevant database table! It’s called ‘domain’ if anyone in the future finds this.
Not a good look. I can empathize with not wanting right wing propaganda machines to profit from your work but it should at least be opt in and not curated by a single person.
Personally think it’s just really not the software’s job to handle this or have an opinion on this - it’s rather up to the instance admins to decide.
But the instance admins do decide this when they decide to use PieFed
Meanwhile on every other platform, billion dollar algorithms dictate what videos millions of people can watch, for the benefit of the billionaires.
blocklist.enabled = True
Having a blocklist option is of course perfectly fine. Pre-filling and pre-enabling that list is not the software’s job, if you ask me.
that feels rather “i don’t like politics”-y to me, i see no problem with shipping a default blocklist so long as it’s opt-in.
free, open source software developed by humans with emotions and opinions is allowed to do things the developers think can help the world be better, so long as it doesn’t cross the line into actively malicious: e.g. hardcoding blocklists and trying to hide that it exists.
According to Rimu Atkinson, the main developer of PieFed, all PieFed instances come with a 3000-long block list of resources that cannot be linked to. These include all sorts of right-wing outlets. There is no easy opt-out, forcing existing instances to follow the blocklist.
I support blocking propaganda and fascism, however this is just censorship imo. This could be a good feature, IF the ultimate choice is on the instances and its users on if they want to have it enabled or not by default, not from the developer and “on all instances with no easy opt-out”
Piefed dev’s I talked to said they can decide to allow or disallow instances at least even as many come preblocked.
I don’t even support blocking propaganda and fascism. Maybe you could block malware sites, but even that’s a push. Let moderators of individual communities figure it out, otherwise you’re just going to turn whole instances into echo chambers.
I’d say that block in general is a bit much, this can be nice if it can be used as a similar feature to “hide bot posts”, so users have the choice on if they want to hide or show those posts with the blocked link in them. Meanwhile each instances can decide what the default is, on or off, but the end user can decide how they want
