Image description:
Text: Amazon’s electric cargo bikes have arrived in DC.
Image: A four-wheeled vehicle that appears to be a cross between a bicycle, a go-cart, and a mini-truck
Response text from high t alpha shemale @gluetaster: that’s not a cargo bike man that’s a loopholemobile
Edit: I found a slightly higher-quality version of the image:
For what loophole?
If these are actually only considered “bikes” - they get around registration, insurance, licenses etc.
They also occupy bike lanes.
What’s the advantage of one of these over a truck exactly?
Probably being able to go in bike lanes, shoulders, sidewalks, between cars, and other places where normal vehicles can’t go. Generally this would be more flexible and nimble in last mile delivery.
That just reads to me as “able to weave recklessly around people” because I’ve seen how the bike messengers behave in my city.
They go slower, are less noisy, damage pavement less, the driver can get in and out easier and possibly doesn’t need a licence
They’ve been around in Europe for ages. They’re much more eco friendly. I don’t notice any dislike from the operators, they still come out get out with a smile. And they don’t have to wear helmets.
I know, I delivered mail using a quite large tricycle for a while. These things can’t be that much different
Easier, cheaper and safer for last mile delivery in urban areas.
They are way cheaper I imagine.
In fact, I’d bet that’s how it was made. They have a team design the cheapest possible delivery vehicle with no rules. Then it obviously can’t be road legal, so they get a team of lawers to work on that. Someone realises if they add pedals and call it an Ebike, they get to ignore practically all regulations. So they did.
Ahh, a western Took Took!
It doesn’t belong on the fucking road or on the bike path.
True. Maybe they’ll make a “this-thing” path.
We call that “the river”
“The Amazon”
no AC and a singular water bottle. no protection for the driver either if someone decides to run up and drive off with it. Who thought this was a great idea?
Someone who will never have to use it, or likely even interact with someone who does
having worked at an amazon facility before, that is exactly how it goes, even the software is so stupid
I actually think it’s a good idea. If this is too dangerous then by definition the same is true for all cyclists. So there is no need to address those specifically instead of improving safety for all kinds of bikes.
This has giant blind spots. My bike has zero blind spots.
saves amazon money, no need for expensive car insurance, or maintaing an actual ev/ice car.
Mail carriers die from heat stroke in similarly spartan vehicles every year here in the southwest, no question in my mind the same will happen with this.
That’s an Amazon driver. The water bottle is not for drinking.
But how you gonna piss with everything all open like that?
Very carefully
Maybe you can go in the back.
I always wonder how many unwashed piss hands have touched the packages I get delivered.
Possibly quite a bit less than you’d think, as I see many delivery people and those in fulfillment centers wearing work gloves of some kind. That said, there are always outliers.
You ever hear the stories about the TSA people who wear their rubber gloves into the bathroom to go piss and then don’t wash their hands before they go back out to rifle through you bag for a tube of toothpaste?
I’m kind of a germaphobe so I think about these things.
Can’t say I have, but given the average person’s propensity for laziness, I’m thoroughly unsurprised. Knew a medic that served aboard an aircraft carrier, and they regaled me with horror stories about how those things are nuclear-powered floating disease factories.
shouldn’t you have to be able to manually pedal an e bike for it to qualify as an e bike.
It looks like there’s pedals his feet are on but it’s hard to tell with all the jpeg
I wonder when a 500lb, supersport, electric motorcycle is going to get pedals so it can be an ebike too.
There are already plentiful examples of this on Amazon, and teenagers are all over the place getting themselves killed and/or being a nuisance on bike paths with them.
And then local governments respond by banning all ebikes, yay!
Then I guess those teens will have get behind the wheels of Ford F750s if they want to get around, ya know, for safety.
Bike is from bicycle, in which the bi implies two wheels. How much are they paying these people smh :P
Quadcycle… Qycle?
Well it doesn’t roll off the tongue quite the same lol
I think it would be Quake?
That’s a keitruck without regulations.
What? you don’t like corporate-exclusive keitrucks?
Amazon: Kei for me not for thee
Nope, I don’t like corporate-exclusive keitrucks that skirt laws and regs. Keitrucks are the designed result of regulations.
Keitrucks are the designed result of regulations.
So exactly as this “cargo-e-bike”… especially designed to work within the existing regulation for cargo-e-bikes.
That is a stupid assumption to make and even more stupid that you’re trying to defend Amazon. It has 4 wheels, so it literally isn’t even a bike. This is obviously an attempt to cut some corner, probably trying to save on gasoline and shove more responsibility to the workers who aren’t being paid anywhere near what their labor is worth.
Having to actually defend Amazon is the bad part.
Having regulation that makes small(-ish) electric vehicles with certain speed limits count legally as e-bikes is exactly how you get efficient small electric vehicles to be used for the last mile of deliveries instead of stupid trucks.
That’s how Kei cars and trucks were established: special regulation for vehicles with limited sizes and power not counting as normal cars so being exempt from certain requirements, paying reduced taxes and insurance etc.
I don’t think there’s necessarily anything corporate-exclusive about these; you could probably commission your own if you wanted.
I don’t really see how this doesn’t count as a motor vehicle, though. Be interesting to see what the ‘assist’ speed and power limits are.
I looked up what constitutes an ebike in my state and it has to to be 750w or less motor and limit to 28mph with pedal assist. Has to have a front light and rear reflector like a regular bike. If you can go 30 or more on an ebike, its considered a motorcycle and you can be pulled over and need registration, insurance, license. This thing is gonna end up with many states adding vehicle weight limits.
28 mph is 45 kph and about twice the speed at which assist is required to cut out in Europe.
This thing needs weight limits and its speed halved. There should also be a momentum limit on speed times weight so a heavier vehicle has to go slower.
These are just using other existing loopholes, like for Party bikes.
You would lose out on a lot of other stuff to get rid of them.
Lmao at the helmet. This country is a joke
it’s a bicycle helmet. if you were riding around d.c. on any kind of ‘bike’, you’d be the fool to not have one.
I mean, yes I know. It like, in what world is that a bike? It’s obviously just skirting the laws, and the helmet is a hilarious addition.
‘Lookit me! I’m on a bike !’
Yeah, sure buddy.
I think the pedals are even more hilarious. It’s not like the driver is going to be providing any useful motive power with them, or is going to be able to move that thing with the electronics not operating. At least the helmet has a chance of being useful by preventing the driver’s head from smacking the plexiglass windscreen in an accident.
Oh gosh, I didn’t even notice those! :p
Those absolute animals! No helmets!
I mean in other countries they have different laws. Don’t wear them in a rickshaw, but if those existed in NA legally you probably would need to.
They have a sorta rickshaw where I am, I don’t remember the pullers nor the riders having helmets. Though, no clue what the laws would be. Even if there are some, they aren’t enforced.
It gets worse, some cities even have specific bylaws too. So going from city to city in my province you could be breaking the law or be perfectly legal.
Not comparable in the slightest.
These are fully man powered and tend to do scenic routes at a relaxed low speed. Don’t want people spilling all over. The driver can also see basically 360 around them.
The amazon ones are electric, will go in normal traffic to go wherever the package needs to go, employee pushed to hurry up. Barely able to look behind.
Yeah the first time one of these is t-boned by a Camaro I’m sure the helmet will do the trick
So just like any other bicycle that would be in the same situation…?
What’s your point?
Most bikes aren’t the size of a minivan, genius
You understand the helmet is for if you fall out… yeah? Or other scenarios. A helmet does no good with a regular bike when a car hits you too.
Lol, they do the exact same thing. You limit one, you limit the others, they’re built around the exact same bicycle laws. To say they aren’t comparable is missing the entire bloody picture here.
The others aren’t electric, they’re pedal assist, just like these can be too.
Both can go in bike lanes or in regular traffic lanes since they fit the definition of bicycle, which means they must actually be on the road like bicycles in most places.
You’re now just making shit up to make a point. Well done.
Sorry but who hurt you? No need to be rude.
My last sentence was pretty clear that when it comes to current legal label they are the same, The same as your personal bike even. To the law these are all comparable. Can ride on bikelanes, dont require any traffic license. (At least where i live)
Except your article does state some places do treat them differently:
In some locations, the driver is required to have a chauffeur’s driver’s license to operate on public streets.
But my point is they should not count as the same at all and thats an opinion i am free to add to this discussion, they are build differently for different usecases. They need their own respective laws fit for the areas they ride, size and max speed. There is nothing safe about allowing these on bikeslanes.
I would even say for party bikes, they don’t all compare among themselves either.
If they don’t, than courier bikes are banned, children carts are banned… these are based off courier bikes that already exist, pushed to the limits of the legislation. Just like anything else ever made really.
They have size limits and other limitations, they’re being followed, so they are defined as a bike. What about accessible four wheeled bikes for the less abled, Oops your ignorance just got those banned, well done.
Don’t like it, go cry somewhere else. You are mad at Amazon, not the legislation, go whing to someone who cares.
Can still fall/be ejected sideways.
Guys… I know it looks ridiculous. But it’s really not that bad, imho. If those smallest cargo vehicles that are partly propelled by ferry and (more, obviously) by a battery, that are tiny and slow enough to be used on wider bicycle lanes, actually replaced larger delivery vans and trucks… wouldn’t that be, you know, good?
I kinda get it, the pedals on the image shown seem a bit questionable and it does seem like a poor replacement for an electric < Kei truck / Tuk-Tuk >. Maybe with very light cargo and very good (expensive) gearing/drive-train, but that’s really stretching benefit-of-the-doubt. I could see stuff like that making more sense for special-use stuff like catering, moving, low-density waste transfer, or any sort of food-truck thing (that needs empty space) etc.
Compare it to something that looks more reasonable to pedal/handle like this:
I’d imagine these 2 models would handle significantly differently when empty.
Hope that image works, found by searching
e-quad cargo. Also, made by Mumbea Mobility but I also see similar-sized models by Fernhay.What we need is for society to recognize that cities do need some trucks for deliveries and allow them on roads in a limited way without allowing all the passenger cars.
I could be wrong, but I think Paris allows small delivery trucks on streets during a certain time of day or in a limited capacity. In places that they don’t allow cars.
Companies wouldn’t have to make small trucks like these that use the bike infrastructure if they could use the regular roads more easily without all the cars.
Everyone hunky dory until they start parking these things in the bike lane.
Three wheels. This is just throwing it in everyone’s face that Amazon can do what they fucking want. Regs are that a “bike” can be a three wheeler, but 4 wheels is a CAR.
I think this is 4 but you can’t see the fourth wheel.
yes, it’s a four wheeler. That’s what I mean, though. This would not be considered a bicycle if you or I wanted to register it or get it approved as such. Different tules for Amazon.
I dont know what rules you’re referring to, but cycles can have any number of wheels as far as i know https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadracycle?wprov=rarw1
This isn’t pot it’s smokable beer
THC beverages are a thing, so why not do the opposite?
Wait. What are we talking about again?
How is he supposed to piss in a bottle of everybody can see inside the cabin.
Cover himself with leaves just like our ancestors, duh. Or maybe cardboard as the modern equivalent I guess.
Bicycle: a vehicle with two wheels tandem, handlebars for steering, a saddle seat, and pedals by which it is propelled
Just two wheels and pedal propulsion are all that is required, I can show you bicycles without handlebar steering or saddle-style seats that you would agree are still definitely bikes.
Regardless, the thing above is certainly not a bike.
I ride a bicycle with a laid back seat, tiller steering, and two wheels, and pedals
It also takes three standard chains to connect the pedals to the back wheel
The description of the vehicle is:
“Image: A four-wheeled vehicle that appears to be a cross between a bicycle, a go-cart, and a mini-truck”
There’s really nothing about that vehicle that’s bicycle-like. First of all, it has more than 2 wheels, so it’s not a bicycle. In addition, you don’t move it by pedalling. You also sit inside it, not on it.
It’s really more of a cross between a golf cart and a delivery truck. It might legally get through loopholes meant for bicycles, but there’s nothing about it that looks bicycle-like.
Bicycle can also be 3 wheeler, either 2 in front or back like adaptive bicycles
or even 3 in line like this
There’s also 4wheel adaptive bicycles like this one
Noteworthy also that only 2 from the above had a handlebar!
Now I’m not defending loopholecyle, which is basically a light truck, but just pointing out that your definition is very wrong
I would call the first image a tricycle (The shoulder-driven steering linkage on that thing is cool as hell btw), the second one is a concept that the builder does admittedly call a bike, and the third one a quadcycle with a pedal assist motor.
The words are tricycle and quadcycle
Bi means two
A trike is not a bike
Yeah that’s the origin of the word
Just like one would think of the dice game when talking about ‘hazard’
Sometimes words change their meanings
I’m not usually a linguistic purist but we can’t let two mean three.
Behold! A child riding a quadcycle!
Trikes and quads might share characteristics with bicycles, but they’re not bicycles because they don’t have two wheels.
“a vehicle with two wheels tandem”
“a two-wheeled vehicle that you sit on”
“a vehicle with two wheels in tandem”
“Bicycle is a two-wheeled vehicle powered by the rider”
“bicycle, two-wheeled steerable machine that is pedaled by the rider’s feet”
“a bicycle, a bike: a two-wheeled vehicle moved by pressing down on pedals with your feet”
Sometimes you could argue that there’s a grey area between a moped and a bicycle, or an e-bike and a bicycle. But, the two wheels is a key part of the definition. As soon as it’s more (or less) than two permanently attached wheels, it’s no longer a bicycle. That’s why we have words like unicycle, tricycle, etc.
