I experience Lemmy as a reflection of many of the problems in the world; there seems to be little effort to understand and respect different viewpoints. Instead of being curious about opinions one disagrees with, the community often feels almost aggressive. People end up in their own trenches. What about trying to be more open and curious about our differences instead?
Apparently we believe in freedom of speech—so long as the speech is something we agree with…
More of a rant than a genuine question. Locking.
This is the thing I like least about Lemmy. So many people have no friends or life experience, hate everyone, and want to constantly argue or insult others that it’s difficult to avoid them. I block as many as I can, but it takes a lot of the fun out of meeting people and having discussions.
I’m all for letting people say what they want, but that goes both ways in letting them criticize what you say.
If you don’t like them, you can just ignore them. Nobody is saying you have to take the opinions of people on the internet seriously.
I don’t come here for friendly debate or to enrich my worldview. It happens from time to time but there are two many bad faith actors to waste time debating with people that don’t already largely align with my priorities and morality.
Within those boundaries I’m happy to rethink things and have nuanced conversations and debate with people I already can largely agree on foundational thinking. But frankly at this point in my life if someone comes on here with “but what if Trump is good,” I block. Like in order to get to that point, there has to be extremely little common ground to agree on. There is no hope of reasonable conversation.
Likely some people feel the same about me.
Give us an example what you’re referring to…your comment doesn’t mean a lot of without any context.
“Freedom of speech” is a fraught concept. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean one must accept the views of another, for example. Freedom of speech is also accepting reaction to your speech. Each speaker is “owed” whatever freedom you’re proposing.
Yeah, we’ve hand now hundreds, maybe even more low grade trolls butthurt here that they aren’t allowed to be racist sexist piles of shit and whine about free speech. No dudes, we have the right not to host your shit. Not saying OP is one of them, but I’ll throw a link at 90% of the people who post here about free speech are under that umbrella.
And every time I point it out I offer that they may start their own instance with all the hate they want. So far I have seen almost no one do that.
I’ll preface by repeating what you said: we don’t know what the OP is talking about.
But, yeah, very often when somebody is complaining about free speech…they don’t mean free speech. What they mean is that their opinion should be accepted without criticism or consequence.
What this outlook has resulted in, in many places in the contemporary western world (the world I’m familiar with), is that hate speech, aggressive speech and threatening speech are protected - even encouraged - while the speech of those functionally suppressed or intimidated is ignored or attacked.
My opinion is that conservative speech has become a huge problem. It’s ironically social media bubbles that make so-called conservatives believe that their once marginalized opinions are more popular or legitimate than they are. I believe that conservatives want everybody to be forced to listen to their opinions until they agree with them or face consequences if they don’t.
The tolerance paradox. If we let intolerant thoughts through, they quickly become domineering and push for exactly what we see. So, the only thing to be intolerant of is intolerance itself.
People seem to be much more passionate about their stances here. Even when their stance is completely ridiculous and not rooted in reality. I’ve only blocked one person so far though (something I’ve REALLY tried not to do) and I’ve had a ton of good dialoge. You also can’t really express any view that isn’t far left.
passionate is a polite way to acknowledge that they have delusional beliefs and inability to knowledge reality outside of their own head where anything they claim or think is perfect and good.
I try to be polite where possible
its there. I have seen it. its also not there. use the block. make the experience you want.
This. It got notably worse recently, so don’t be too picky with that block button.
yeah I mean that being said don’t block somone just for disagreeing and check thier profile and post and comment history to verify. There are some who were being rather dickish at times but I looked over and you know maybe they were having a bad day as their history was not like that all the time.
I love it when fascists go, “why doesn’t the left tolerate my desire to kill other human beings and be the shittiest version of myself I can be? It’s unfair I can’t be a creep!”
Oyzmo, go find the sharpest stick with spines and fire ants on it and sit on it, pointy end up.
I’ve seen the opposite. I’ve enjoyed conversation’s here and people generally have good facts to back up their point. There’s a few assholes but way less than reddit. I’m worried it will get worse though.
That’s interesting that experiences can vary so widely here. People are way more rude here, I’ve found. And way more sexist. Or at least more sexist on the surface. At least on Reddit you’d have to seek out incel communities to see the more depraved views about women.
Reddit has normies now and Lemmy is more basement nerds so that’s probably why.
Reddit has women now. Ftfy
Pretty Much ha
Hopefully more women will join lemmy. It’s quite the cesspool in here.
Now this is some S-tier trolling, the kind of thing that could’ve incited a weeks-long flame war back in the Usenet days. The key here is the lack of any specifics, so each reader can interpret the issue differently by filling in the details from their own experiences. And it’s framed so that either I agree that Lemmy users have bad attitudes, or I disagree and prove it. *chef’s kiss*
lack of any specifics
Bringing up specific examples would be counterproductive - the whole thread would just turn into a debate about those examples instead of staying on the actual point. The discussion isn’t about what the disagreement is over; it’s about what that disagreement looks like.
Yes, I agree, since the actual point is to generate lots of heated discussion without any resolution. Without any specifics, all that’s left is vibes, and vibes are the best way to rile people up.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean a guaranteed audience or platform.
You can write whatever you want. No one is required to read it. No one is required to host it. If they do read it, they can say whatever they want about it.
This is the fediverse. You can host your own instance and say whatever you want. No one else is required to federate with you.
If you post something and people say it’s garbage, that’s not your freedom of speech being quashed. You spoke. Now they are using their freedom of speech in response.
Apparently we believe in freedom of speech—so long as the speech is something we agree with…
Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from response. Some people have shitty opinions, and are too fragile to accept that people don’t like them or their opinions.
And some people get upset when other people don’t like AI and don’t want it to do everything for them.
usually whenever someone complains about this sort of thing, it’s because they got told off for espousing fascist bullshit, so please, elaborate for us.
I checked OP’s post history, expecting to find a bunch of offensive stuff in there, but I didn’t see anything egregious in the first page. *shrug* And I’m not going to bother with digging deeper.
It’s definitely intolerant of any OS that is non-linux
On the contrary, I believe everyone here holds a special place in their heart for TempleOS, even if it’s not a practical choice. Also most everyone here has mad respect for anyone rocking some other niche nerd shit like FreeBSD or ReactOS etc. (I do, anyways)
Mostly it’s just that Windows has sucked for at least a decade and macOS is just starting on its suck arc.
I agree Windows sucks, just pointing out an intolerance! I think no matter what social we go on it will eventually become an echo chamber and people will be intolerant as their hatred grows.
Another example is AI. Lemmy is intolerant of AI outside of AI specific communities, but go to LinkedIn and you have people circlejerking over how great their vibe coding is.
Back when Reddit made it’s API change and I moved to Lemmy, it felt like people were still getting a feeling of things, there would be more discussion on subjects. As time is going on I’m seeing discussion around subject diminish. I guess it could have been because there was less posts? Or could it be as time has gone on people have become less tolerant of things Lemmy generally doesn’t like?
Sure, but you said intolerance for any non-Linux OS, and that’s just simply not true as there are several non-Linux OS’s we love. If you were to say Lemmy is intolerant specifically of Windows, that would be more accurate, but I’m also aware of at least one subset of die-hard Windows aficionados on Lemmy who vehemently hate Linux. Definitely a minority, but they’re there.
Also, the db0 instance is pro-AI as I recall, so anyone who’s keen on that sort of thing is (to my knowledge) welcome there.
Yeah fair enough, you’re right, I should have been specific in saying Windows and MacOS.
I believe the point still remains that intolerances exist on Lemmy.
Discrediting what someone says by questioning their underlying motives instead of engaging with the actual content is called ad hominem. Along with strawmanning, it’s probably the number-one logical fallacy poisoning online discourse - and likely a major reason this whole discussion even started in the first place.
being the “errrrrrm, ackshually, you just committed a logical fallacy 🤓” dweeb in response to someone else being questioned whether they’re a fascist sympathizer, when that doesn’t actually invalidate what I said at all, when I wasn’t even talking to you – that’s an extraordinary kind of self-own, you do know that, right?
I’m gonna engage with fascists and fascist sympathizers on the same level that they engage in good-faith debate in – that is to say, on whatever level I want to at any given moment in time. If they aren’t one, let them explain what innocent ideals they hold that are so poorly received, that have lead them to believe Lemmy is “lacking tolerance and acceptance” – we’ve got entire instances dedicated to porn, anarchists, AI lovers, tankies, trans people, furries, the French – I’m very eager to hear what could possibly be Too Spicy For Lemmy that is not something along the lines of “I want to gas undesirables” or trending towards that direction.
I’m going to struggle writing this because the logic is so hard to follow but db0 blocked my whole (GERMAN) instance because my (again, GERMAN) instance moderates against hate-speech against Jews, making us Zionist fascists, somehow.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Look carefully at the modlogs in the screenshots and understand db0 admins think that it’s the feddit.org mods that are in the wrong for removing the hateful comments. It took me several minutes to comprehend that the screenshots were supposed to be proof that Feddit.org people are Zionists, because the mods are removing hate-speech. The screenshots are NOT proof of hatespeech on Feddit against Palestinian people.
In the eyes of db0, the GERMAN INSTANCE IS EVIL because it doesn’t platform enough anti-semitism.
The ANARCHIST instance is mad at the GERMAN INSTANCE for not allowing hateful rhetoric of Jewish people.
This whole DB0 vs. feddit.org situation is a joke. They’re using their “Anarchist Code of Conduct” to justify the exact kind of tribalist garbage it was supposed to stop.
The Code says you can’t disrespect or exclude people just for being part of some “unfavorable group.” That got binned fast. Like you say, they’re not even showcasing Feddit hosting Zionism, they’re showcasing them removing hate-speech which aligns with their own damn Code of Conduct. The hypocrisy couldn’t be more palpable.
That “democratic vote” is a joke too. The admins didn’t present a fair debate, they framed it as “Do you stand with the oppressed or with the fascists?” They loaded the language with terms like “Zionist bar problem” and “genocide apologia” to make sure the answer was obvious. That’s not democracy. That’s manipulation. That’s blatant fucking propaganda.
It’s like they think anarchism means “do what we say or you’re the real fascists.” Actually that’s exactly what they think.
I experience Lemmy as a reflection of many of the problems in the world
You’ve said it yourself. It’s not unique to Lemmy. This is just a smaller platform with therefore more biases. You could keep trying and show new visitors with your viewpoints that they have a space here. E.g. Lemmy is slowly becoming less try-hard anarchistic. But honestly with your viewpoints, whether it’s about AI or strict immigration, I consider it too difficult and unrealistic currently.
