• otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    16 days ago

    IIRC, it was a Depression product created for the poors to have some chocolate in their short, diseased, cast-off lives.

    La Croix has more “flavor” than Nutella is “chocolate”. 🖕🏼

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      Or is that just propaganda to prevent palm oil from taking to much marketshare?
      You need at least 3 times as much farmland to make an equal amount of any other form of vegetable oil.
      Most farm oil used in Europe is from sustainable farming, Indonesia makes 50% of the palm oil on the global market, and they claim to have regulated palm oil farming to be sustainable.
      Palm oil is an excellent oil, it is efficient to grow because of very high yields, and it’s been used for thousands of years.

      • paraphrand@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        Well, I hope you are correct and that there are no reasons for Indonesia to be lying about that.

        Demand has only gone up in the past few decades. It’s in more and more highly processed foods.

        I don’t think any of this changes past deforestation, either.

      • Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz
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        16 days ago

        Since oil palms only grow in humid tropical environments it really comes down to which land we value the most. By using 3 hectares in Europe we could save 1 hectare of land in rainforests. What is worth more, 1 hectare rainforest in Indonesia or 3 hectares of native woodland in Europe? It’s not really clear cut. One could argue that 1 hectare of rainforest is more valuable because of the higher biodiversity. However there is not one natural answer to this question and ultimately subjective.

      • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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        16 days ago

        Palm oil is almost or entirely unique among plant oils in that it is solid at room temperature without hydrogenation, so it’s a plant oil that behaves like an animal fat in recipes. How’s it compare to lard in sustainability?

        • Zombie@feddit.uk
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          16 days ago

          Definitely not entirely unique.

          RBD coconut oil can be processed further into partially or fully hydrogenated oil to increase its melting point. Since virgin and RBD coconut oils melt at 24 °C (75 °F), foods containing coconut oil tend to melt in warm climates. A higher melting point is desirable in these warm climates, so the oil is hydrogenated. The melting point of hydrogenated coconut oil is 36–40 °C (97–104 °F).

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_oil#Manufacturing

        • Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz
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          16 days ago

          There is not a pig breed out there that is all lard. However there is a huge difference between pig breeds regarding the procentage. Back in the day when palmoil was not available and lard was used the pigs we had were much fatter and fed a diet higher in cereal grains and lower in soy. When lard went out of fashion there was suddenly a huge oversupply of the stuff and we shifted their diets but more importantly shifted breeding efforts to ever leaner pigs.

          This makes it harder to say exactly what environmental impact lard would have if we shifted back to using it as one of our main solid fats. I would argue that lard right now could be seen as a byproduct. In my country a lot of the lard is currently used as a feedstock for biodiesel which, when you think about it, is absolutely insane considering we at the same time import copious amounts of palm oil. You could even see it as us currently making biodiesel from palmoil by proxy. Which is not ideal.

          But let’s say we could make the shift back to lard. We would get slightly less biodiesel but at the same time we could shift to a cereal grain heavy diet for the pigs and go back to those old breeds. Soy yields far less than say corn yields. Fatty pigs could therefore be less land demanding than lean pigs are to raise. I can’t exactly say if the demand for land would go up or down in the final equation but theoretically we could end up actually needing less land when also taking account the less land we would need for palm oil. But the main obstacle here is that people simply don’t want to eat lard anymore. It’s “icky” for the modern consumer. Which is ironic as we still consume it in sausages as one of the largest ingredients, but the consumers won’t accept it in baking products anymore.

          In the end lard is just the carb in cereal grain converted to fat via a pig. And cereal grains are plentiful and very high yielding. Is using corn to produce fatter pigs, pigs that we would still raise anyway for the meat, really be worse than using the same corn for bio ethanol? It’s worth a thought. I would be very interested in seeing a full life cycle analysis of the land use and environmental impact such a shift would lead to.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          Excellent point, compared to lard it’s probably more like 30 times more efficient in the amount of farmland needed.
          The problem is not palm oil, the real problem is that the global population has increased from 5 to 8 billion in 50 years. Without palm oil, deforestation would probably have been worse.

      • robocall@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        I heard that palm oil plantations deforest where orangutans live and I wouldn’t want to destroy their habitat. Why can’t America grow palm oil instead of so much corn and soy beans?

        • Barley_Man@sopuli.xyz
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          16 days ago

          Oil palms only grow in humid tropical environments. Environments that when left undisturbed would be tropical rainforest. Decoupling palm oil from deforestation is therefore very hard. Certified sustainable palmoil is simply from farmland that the farmers have proved not to have been deforested recently but that same land still has the potential to return to tropical rainforest after restoration.

          Regarding America specifically probably only Hawaii could support it. But land there is scarce and is used for much higher value crops like fruit crops. Harvesting palm oil is also quite labor intensive since the fruit bunches are harvested manually. It therefore does not make economic sense to grow it in countries with high wages.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          I absolutely love Orangutans, but then any action should be against the countries that fail to protect orangutans, not demonizing palm oil which dozens of countries depend on.
          Demonizing palm oil reeks of industry manipulation, to protect agriculture in Europe or USA.

          • robocall@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            Ok but you could be Mr monopoly guy behind the keyboard astroturfing your palm oil empire on Lemmy.

            But seriously why isn’t the USA producing palm oil?

                • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  I don’t see why not, the problem is probably more to make it profitable, as the product would have to compete in a market of cheap palm oil from developing countries.
                  In greenhouses with artificial light, you can create whatever conditions you want, including a subtropical climate.

      • paraphrand@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        Yup. And it increases as demand increases. Palm oil has seen a surge in use, replacing other things, over the last few decades. This is due to trans fats being phased out. So we traded one major problem for another.

    • Zachariah@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      Once read a thread where someone was asking the best way to eat it. There were suggestions like on toast, or with banana slices. But the best answer—and the one that had me laughing in tears—was:
      With your whole hand.

    • recentSlinky@lemmy.ca
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      16 days ago

      Oh god who would do such a thing!?! Next you’d tell me some people would scrape their fingers all around the inside of the jar and lick them making sure they get every last remaining chocolate of that sweet sweet nector of the gods. And even stick their tongue inside, making out style with the jar, making sure no more chocolate taste left 🤤

      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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        16 days ago

        Like, for solid food, 50% sugar is what’s typically in sweets, that means 50g sugar in 100g food. 10% sugar (that means 10g sugar in 100g liquid) is what’s in sweet drinks like soda.

        The WHO recommends restricting your sugar intake to a maximum of 10% of your calories intake. So for solid food that would be 10g sugar per 100g food, assuming the rest of the food is calorie-rich. For liquids it would be virtually 0g sugar per 100g liquid as liquids contain essentially no other calorie source.

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          That one can’t be real. There’s more sugar than could physically fit in the coke can. Like no liquid, just sugar, there’s more than 12oz of sugar.

          • Quokka@quokk.au
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            16 days ago

            There’s 39 grams of sugar in a a coke can. Sugar is water soluble and 90% of the can is water that can absorb the 10% of sugar.

              • Quokka@quokk.au
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                16 days ago

                I hope I’m not wrong as well! I did my best research (I googled) and looked at the nutritional labels (100% 39g of sugar).

            • hereiamagain@sh.itjust.works
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              16 days ago

              Hmmm, look at the labels. They each say something something “100”.

              Not the right language, but maybe something like per 100? Like per 100 grams of water? Or… something about volume?

              IDK, it would be a weird way to do it. But something like that might explain why so much sugar, seemingly more than can fit in the can.

              Sugar is heavy, there’s no way 39 grams is the same size as the can

              Edit: gandalf seems to have the right idea here! https://sh.itjust.works/comment/24686999

              Edit2: wait, a can has 300+ grams of fluid in it… So the sugar would be 1/3 of what the whole can would be. This actually makes the picture more confusing 🤔

              Edit 3:

              Behold, 39 grams of sugar. About one shot glass worth.

              Here’s that glass next to a can. I don’t have any soda pop in the house.

          • teyrnon@sh.itjust.works
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            15 days ago

            16 to 20 teaspoons of sugar or the equivalent, in a 16 oz pop I’ve read. Can you imagine putting 10 teaspoons of sugar in a cup of coffee?

    • nandeEbisu@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      There’s a shocking number of people who see words like “hazelnuts” and think its healthy like plain hazelnuts.

      • howrar@lemmy.ca
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        16 days ago

        It doesn’t help that Nutella has been advertised as being “part of a healthy breakfast”.

        • Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip
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          16 days ago

          I mean, hitting yourself in the face can be a part of an otherwise healthy routine.

          Yeah, I have a healthy routine. Make myself a nice breakfast and eat it while I read the paper, take the dog out, have a shower, take the bus to work, jog at lunch, take the bus home, go for an evening bike ride, punch myself in the dick, have a healthy balanced dinner and in bed by 9.

    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      I think the surprising part is that this guy got a jar that was seperated and layered. Mine just comes as one consistant spread.

    • jqubed@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      They sure tried advertising it as a health food in the USA 20-ish years ago when it was relatively new to the market—“simple, quality ingredients like hazelnuts, skim milk, and a hint of cocoa.” They were sued for deceptive advertising and had to pay millions of dollars.

      But yeah, one bite or a look at the ingredients and nutrition label should be enough to warn anyone. The first ingredient is sugar and more than 50% of the food’s mass comes from added sugar.

      • ctry21@sh.itjust.works
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        15 days ago

        Same in Europe in the late 00s/early 10s anyway - the ads here boasted about it being a good source of slow-release energy to keep you going til lunch

      • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        It’s amazing that anyone was fooled by this marketing. It shows you the power of it I guess.

        The first time I tried Nutella I immediately knew what it was: chocolate hazelnut cake frosting. The fact that people slather it on their toast every day seemed as absurd to me as eating cake frosting every day.

        • tempest@lemmy.ca
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          16 days ago

          North America has long had sweet treats as breakfast or early morning food so I’m surprised you’re surprised.

          Things like Danish, donuts, pop tarts, toaster strudel, breakfast cereal… Etc etc

          • BanMe@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            Hold up the Dutch straight up put chocolate sprinkles onto buttered toast and you’re coming at exclusively at the US? And Danish were named after somewhere. Strudel… that sounds awfully germanic… I think Europe is gaslighting us. Also I’ve had European milk chocolate, holy shit.

            • teyrnon@sh.itjust.works
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              15 days ago

              The danish aren’t all overweight though. 50% of white people in the US are now. 60% or more of the general population last I checked, and it takes an immigrant on average 7 years to become as overweight as the average American.

              So something is different.

            • ccunning@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              I mean we have a cereal that’s openly marketed as just a box full of mini chocolate chip cookies

              • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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                16 days ago

                Everyone knows those cereals are for kids and only as a special treat, not an every day thing.

                If someone wants to have banana Nutella crepes for breakfast once a month I don’t think that’s a big deal. But having toast with Nutella every day (or cookie cereal) is not a normal thing to do.

                • NannerBanner@literature.cafe
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                  16 days ago

                  Lol, the commercials for said cereal were always literally about everyone saying it was cookies for breakfast, and who doesn’t have the same breakfast every day? If there was a box of cereal, that’s what we were eating until it was gone and then you open the next box of cereal or switch to toast/waffles/pancakes/biscuits/oatmeal until that box is used up, and so on and so forth until it’s time to go back to the grocery store.

                  If your parents bought the cookie cereal (and there were apparently enough to keep it on the shelves for years) then you were eating it everyday as a normal thing.

                • grue@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  Everyone knows those cereals are for kids and only as a special treat, not an every day thing.

                  LOL, no, we really don’t.

    • starlinguk@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      Only it wasn’t palm fat until recently. Shittiest oil on the planet, they’re destroying SO much rain forest and replacing it with palms.

    • waigl@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      I’m not surprised by it any more, but only because I’ve known this for a while now. When I first saw this breakdown (and looked at other sources to confirm), I was caught a bit off guard by the realization that this stuff is well over 50% sugar. The palm oil is not exactly a plus, either.

        • waigl@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          Well, it was supposed to be mainly a hazelnut cream with some sugar, cocoa and maybe a few other minor ingredients. And in fact, when it was new and conquering markets, that was what it was.

          I think the decades starting with the early 1990s had desensitized a lot of us to enormous amounts of sugar, and in the end we didn’t even consciously notice anymore how sweet that stuff had gotten.

          • tempest@lemmy.ca
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            16 days ago

            I’m actually a bit surprised it has so much sugar in it and they haven’t tried to replace it with some sort of artificial sweetener or HFCS. The sugar has to be the lion share of the cost, maybe tied with the Coco.

            • diverging@piefed.social
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              16 days ago

              The sugar also supplies a significant amount of the volume of the product. Artificial sweetener is significantly sweeter than sucrose, like hundreds of times sweeter, so just swapping the sugar for artificial sweetener would require them to use a bulking agent. The safest bulking agent that doesn’t change the flavor or texture would be sugar.

          • AFK BRB Chocolate (CA version)@lemmy.ca
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            16 days ago

            Many years ago I developed a weird food intolerance called Fructose Malabsorption. Basically, free fructose molecules mess me up, but sucrose (table sugar) doesn’t, so among other things I started avoiding things with much HFCS in them. I started getting unsweetened iced tea at restaurants and adding sugar. I was absolutely disgusted by how much sugar you have to add to make it as sweet as a soda or sweet tea. In a regular sized drink cup (american medium), I add three packets, and that is very slightly sweet. To make it as sweet as “normal” I’d easily have to add three times that.

  • Codpiece@feddit.uk
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    16 days ago

    You should probably call the number that’s listed on the back label under “if you’re unsatisfied with this product call … “