You must log in or # to comment.
Once he believed he was the son of god, I guess.
He is his best fan.
Unless he became one long after he died, never.
When he read a self help book that said you have to believe in yourself. Guess he took it too far. :)
When did Metallica become Metallica fans?
They probably were fans of themselves at some point. Why crank out decades of albums you can’t stand.
That being said, I think even Metallica quit being Metallica fans at some point before St. Anger
Lars is definitely a fan of himself
Just occurred to me that I don’t think I’ve heard anything new from them since St. Anger.
He didn’t.
yeah, the trappings of a death cult didn’t sit well with him, plus the whole cross thing was a real turn off. Imagine if a guillotine had killed you and you come back to see a religion spring up using guillotines as their symbol
I believe the early symbol of Christianity was the Icthys, then the Chi-Rho, before European Christians settled on the Latin cross.
It less fun if you well-ackshually, but I appreciate the scholarship
Never, he is a fictional figure and the world would be so much better if people start seeing religions for what they are
There’s a good chance he existed. The religious stuff you can say what you want but can’t confidently say he didn’t exsists.
If a historical person existed named “Jesus” who was also a vocal proponent of Jewish reform, existed that does not make the “Jesus” in the bible a real person. These two people would be mutually exclusive. Real people can’t preform magic. Real people are not born to virgins. Real people cannot be resurrected from the dead after days. There is no person who ever existed who could walk on water and turn water to wine. That “Jesus” is fiction through and through. The Bible is a story book. A book of fables. At best it’s historical fiction. Christian Jesus is a fantasy.
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
Hate religion all you want but don’t shit on history. In all likelihood there was a Jesus the story is based off of. Who was probably real. We have lots of non religious documents that mention him. The Quran mentions him. He probably existed as a person.
Like you exist as a person even though you don’t have a flying tiger.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Both annoying, pushy, and insisting you’re way is the only way. Everyone else is damned.
It’s the same playbook lol.
So what you’re saying is if Bob tells me (your name) has a flying tiger, and I later find out you don’t have a flying tiger… you no longer exists?
They did not say someone named Jesus did not exist.
There’s a difference between believing “Joe who had a tiger and a bear and an elephant”, and assuming that there might have been 3 different Joe’s, one with a tiger, one with a bear and one with an elephant, each of them in a different period. Saying “Joe with 3 animals did not exist” does not imply that those Joe’s did not exist.
I’m not a historian but what I’ve heard (must have been on Alex O’Connor’s podcast) is that even some of the possible historical Jesuses (or “Jesusi” :D) had things going on that were not compatible with what the biblical Jesus was all about. (Such as being cult leader proclaiming that world will end in few years.)
He said Jesus is a fictional figure. He probably existed and yes there were more than one person with similar but that doesn’t change my argument.
If you say “this is Bob and he has a tiger” and I find out he does not have a tiger… he still exists as a person.
But you say “the stories about Bob don’t line up with any specific Bob”
Okay, that doesn’t stop Bob from being just because someone got a story wrong.
Complete asinine argument.
Fictionalize any real person to the point absurdity, and you have a fictional non-existent person from a fairy tale. Saying a dude has a flying tiger is just lies. There is a difference. If you can’t see that, I’m cool with that. We’re all allowed to believe things.
now you are just talking about some different guy named bob.
mario is based on a person, but mario is a fictional character
Mario is based on a plumber. Do plumbers exist?
So you say non religious stuff mention him then mention the Quran. Yep good argument there.
You’ll notice the Quran was said separately from the other stuff. I separated the two because it’s a religious book but not the Bible.
Militant atheists are just as problematic as religious zealots.
Lol
Trying to be the enlightened centrist and saying this. Show me the genocides being committed currently in the name of atheism.
I dont particularly care, I have religious friends but come on.
Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Enver Hoxha
Pick up a book every once I a while.
Religion isn’t the root of all evil lol. People have been killed in the name of aithism, capitalism, science, expansion, gold, resources and yes sometimes religion. It’s not like religion is the big thing we go to war over.
We are at war with Iran right now and religion has nothing to do with it at all.
So i don’t really want to read for this subject but i like conversation. Not trying to facetious.
Did Stalin, Zedong, etc really kill because of atheistic principles? Or more politically?
Dude! You should’ve said that from the beginning! I’m a reasonable person too who just likes to talk!
Stalin killed arguabley for aithiesm. He definitely killed people for thier beliefs….
But I understand your question “did they kill for aithiesm (why can’t I spell that lol)”
No…. But if you acknowledge nopolean of France wasn’t killing people FOR aithiesm. You also have to admit no one was fighting the crusades to actually protect the holly land.
He’ll Donald trump and his followers say he was appointed by Jesus and practically worship him. Does that make the Iran conflict a holy war?
No religion doesn’t have anything to due with it.
I’ve been drinking so go easy and assume I meant things in good faith
Oh so believe he converted water to wine was born from a virgin mother and died and reerected three days later.
No I’m saying don’t ignore history. I’m not pushing any religion. Just saying the man probably existed .
probably existed
Or probably not, as most of his backstory is taken from older stories
A lot of stories about dinosaurs. We are confused about exactly how their feathers would look.
We know they existed tho.
It’s not probably not. It’s probably so. It’s just an argument about what exactly happened.
Do we know how the pyramids were built? No. But we know it wasn’t aliens.
There is confusion but not like people think.
Much like the pyramids we can assume Jesus existed. What exactly happened to which Jesus… that’s confusing but no one is denying there was a man. The pyramids are fact.
Oh god, another one of those…
Dinosaurs existed, so Jeebus must have existed too!
Much like the pyramids we can assume the easter bunny existed and continues to exist today.
NO WE CANNOT!
But we can see the eggs! The eggs, man!
…
Seriously, this is how you sound. You are defending that santa claus really exists because pyramids exist too.
Whenever Hallmark decided so
I’d say jesus never was christian. His followers were. Just like luther wasnt a lutheran, but still catholic.
gnostic faith has quite interesting ideas, it kind of makes a lot of sense too imo. its also a bit concerning about some things. I also heard it would have been the mainline christianity at some point but then something happened and it was branded heresy and we got the current one instead.
Have a look into cather and bogomilists. The “kristijani” and waldenser are also very interesting with their theologie!
Depends on how you define “Christian”. If you mean called himself Christian and recognized it as a distinct, and separate religion from Judaism, then never.
If you define it simply as “someone who believes Jesus was the Messiah and died for our sins” well then he was always Christian.
deleted by creator
I don’t think he “converted” like that.
You know how the Queen of England never had a drivers license or passport because she’s the one who issues them and it would be silly to give yourself your own passport.
Jesus didn’t convert to Christianity . He was Christianity. It formed around him he didn’t convert.
I don’t know but you could probably figure it out by looking at the paintings and other artwork to see when he started wearing a cross.
This is a semantic argument. I say that Jesus is not a Christian, because Christians are those who follow Christ.
I think that Jesus is a Jewish reformist.
He never existed. He is a figment of a religious groups imagination. He is a fictitious character based on ideas of what a religion needs as a figurehead.
That’s incorrect. Virtually all scholars agree that Jesus was a real historical figure, based on many non-religious sources.
Of course most of the stories about him are made up, but the scientific consensus is that he existed.
Could also be an amalgamation of multiple people of a particular movement or philosophy. This happens a lot when you adapt a book to a movie, for example and you end up with characters that are a combination of characters from the original text.
based on many
Yeah I dunno about “many”
Definitely enough for a whole separate Wikipedia article to list them all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus
From that article:
The non-Christian sources that are used to study and establish the historicity of Jesus are Josephus (a Jewish historian and commander in Galilee) and Tacitus (a Roman historian and Senator).
So two. Not “many”.
Not that many independent sources actually. The best evidence for me is that if he didn’t exist then why make up the ridiculous Roman census Nazareth story?
There are so many sources that there is more evidence for his existence than for any other person living at the time.
This article mentions at least 14 independent sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_for_the_historicity_of_Jesus
You are of course free to dismiss all of the sources and have your own opinion, that’s perfectly fine, but do acknowledge that you would be going against established scientific consensus.
That evidence seems sufficient. Not sure why you would assume I would dismiss good evidence. I guess that is common, but I am strictly rational as far as I know.
He did. That is a fact that this person existed. If all that really happened like writen in the bible, what he did eeh who knows. Roman scribes wrote of him for example.
It is suprising what all from the bible is actually true. Especially old testament. ( please do correct me on this im not that deep in the thora and judeism) the old testament is basicly the thora and the thora is among other things the history of the tribes of isreal.
The 10 plagues are proven, that there was a “tower of bable”, Sodom and Gomorra, the city, from what i know are also proven to have existed.
But i’d gladly would like to hear, why you think Iesus of nazared is supposed to be fiction? The apostals all existed and their letters are one prove for that. that romans persuated christians is a known fact. Plus what would’ve been the goal to make up such a figure, like jesus? To create even more unrest in the roman empire? The jews were tolerated by romans. Early christianity was not an organized centralized power structure that it grew to become with the byzantium empire and then, after the big schism, the papacy.
“The 10 plagues are proven, that there was a “tower of bable”, Sodom and Gomorra, the city, from what i know are also proven to have existed.”
None of those are proven. Egyptians kept good records and there are no records of Hebrew slaves in Egypt, and no records of the plagues or their escape. Furthermore, the Bible says the hebrews had 600,000 men in their army, which means easily 2-3 million people in all. This is roughly the same as the population of Egypt at the time.
I’ve never heard anyone claim there’s any evidence for the Tower of Babel so I can’t comment on that, but people claiming Sodom and Gammorah existed point to naturally occurring Sulfer deposits as proof.
“But i’d gladly would like to hear, why you think Iesus of nazared is supposed to be fiction?”
Mythicism, the idea that Jesus wasn’t a real person, is not new but has risen in popularity on recent years because of historian Richard Carrier. There actually isn’t much real evidence that Jesus existed but there is a little. Carrier basically ignores or misinterprets this evidence and isn’t well regarded in scholarly circles. His most recent work failed peer review, which he attributes to a conspiracy against him.
“The apostals all existed and their letters are one prove for that.”
We don’t have a single thing that we know were written by the apostiles. They were most likely illiterate anyway. The Bible books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written anonymously. Hundreds of years later, the church put names on them.
He wasn’t, there was no such thing at the time and he refers to himself as a Jew in the bible. Christianity wasn’t named until after.
Esoterica channel on YouTube has a merkavah series you may find helpful. It’s about 10 episodes so I don’t recall exactly which addresses it, though.
