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The Sorting Hat really sells it.
Kudos Erin🥂A better alternative.
I tried to watch Owl House but it is too boring for me :(
it gets better.
It’s also meant for kids.
I have a better Teens show in my banner.We even made a recent 🧵 about this.
I read the books, but I was 14 and it was 2000. Haven’t consumed any of it since.
Same, and I might add, they’re not that good. In my personal opinion, they get worse as you go. The last book was a slog man
Almost 40 eh? I’m right behind you buddy…
I’ve scouted up ahead and recommend turning back
Turn? Mate, my knees, back and neck are no longer capable supporting that function.
I was 14 and it was 2000
Quite the age difference there.
I offer you the dad crown.
I have never even had an inner monologue about wanting to support of continue consume the work of someone who made something I like after they’ve got outed for bad shit. It’s just and instant “damn, sucks to loose that thing but that’s all there is too it.”
I seriously don’t understand people who do that and the whole “separate the art from the artist” shit.
We have more than enough of literally everything, you aren’t giving up something that nothing else can replace. There’s more stuff to like and discover from nice people than anyone can fit in their lifetime.I’ll shit on JK as much as anyone, but I gotta say, I know a lot of trans people who own Hogwarts Legacy on steam… Most aren’t huge HP fans or even read the books.
Who would own Howarts Legacy on Steam when Epic gave it away free for a whole week…
Because no one is going to play it on Epic, even if its free
Ive played several games on Epic.
I don’t get this attitude for single-player games. If its free… Why the heck not.
Oh right you need people to see your game achievements on Steam?
That’s literally it?
Did people not get over the Achievement Hunter phase a decade ago and just start enjoying games?
This is more of a general answer and not specifically about Hogwarts Legacy:
I mean, if I want to play a game now I don’t wait for years for the possibility that it becomes free for a week (and the chance that I don’t miss the giveaway). And if I have a steam deck, I maybe still want to own it on steam.
I get that.
Personally if it’s single player and I don’t want to support the authors urgently, I can wait.
So for HP I was happy to never buy it, then I saw Epic give it away and i thought… Oh. Well, I guess that works.
Idiots.
My parents moved a few months ago, and that meant I had to come over and decide what to do with some of the stuff I owned that was still at their house. I sorted things into “keep” and “throw away” piles.
One of the things I had to decide on was my Harry Potter books. My parents were surprised I put them in the “throw away” pile. It was hard for a moment, not because of what they were, but because I remember the day my dad came home and surprised me with books 2 and 3. I had read the first book for school, but the first 4 books had already been published by the time I got into it, so my friends were well ahead of me. I was so happy when my dad spontaneously did that. I hadn’t asked for the books, but he knew I wanted them and went out of his way to get them just to surprise me. I felt so loved.
As I held those same books in my hands, 25 years since first receiving them, I took in that loved feeling, but it was twinged with disgust for JK Rowling. Although it pained me, I knew I wouldn’t be reading them again. In my internal monologue, I told myself, "These books served their purpose long ago. It’s okay to let them go and move on."
So into the “throw away” pile they went. The only things worth keeping anymore are the memories and experiences that those books originally opened up to me, and those can’t be tossed out even if I wanted to. Putting the books into that pile felt like visiting a wake - the series is dead to me now, and with this final viewing, I could have closure over it and finally say goodbye.
Why not give them to someone for free such that they do not need to spend money for them?
I mean, when you are going through piles of old sh*t to keep or trash, by, like, the second hour, you just want to throw it all away. Ain’t no one got time to find a person who wants each one of their things that they don’t want to keep anymore.
Thank you for saying this, that’s the point in time we were at. My parents had rented a dumpster, and that final cleaning was the last day before they had to return it, and two days before the new homeowners were set to move in.
Meanwhile, at the same time, I had just moved into a tiny little studio apartment. I have almost no storage/furniture, and no money to buy any. Most of my things are still in boxes because I have nowhere else to keep them. Boxes still fill my car now (months later), to the point that my 4-seater can’t hold a single passenger. I can’t overstate just how little space I have.
Point is, I had to cut down to only the necessities. Holding onto the book set would’ve just been more clutter taking up space that I need for more important things. Which reminds me, I have to dig out the boxes that have my summer clothes and do the switcharoo with my winter clothes (which I currently store in a luggage bag. I don’t even have a dresser!)
These days we have websites for exactly that purpose.
A lot of the major furniture in my apartment came from people getting rid of stuff that I found via free-and-for-sale pages.
Still promotes someone else supporting her nonsense.
I think there’s something to be said for having to throw away things tied to precious memories because those things are tainted by a bitch who couldn’t just shut the fuck up and be happy with her success.
But this is exactly the type of thing I mean when I say that some people’s advocacy against JKR bleeds over into the lives of innocent people just trying to live.
I would never be able to throw away a gift my father had given me. Nobody should be pressuring anyone else to do the same just because they find something problematic (not for its actual contents, but because it’s author is a hate monger).
People forget that there are real and cherished memories attached to this franchise and whether they intend to or not, they do attack them when they make media like this, or post about how terrible a person must be for having engaged with said media.
Just because something is trivial for you to excise from your life doesn’t mean it’s as easy for the next person.
When people spread further hatred because they feel self righteous about something that has wronged them, they aren’t making things better.
I don’t even engage with the franchise anymore. Most of what I know about it from the last decade has been from media posts like this bashing it or telling people how evil Rowling is. I wouldn’t know there was a tv show, wouldn’t have known about the game l, wouldn’t have known about the universal park etc if it weren’t for posts like this.
Did you throw away all your Disney media? Would you still visit a Disney or universal park? Engage with the studio that made the game or the company producing the show?
There’s so much to how media gets made and how many companies are still actively supporting this bigot and instead of attacking those corporations we attack each other for no really good reason except that it makes some people feel superior.
Nobody ever shouts out the organizations that she donates to. Nobody ever mentions where they get their funding. Nobody ever talks about boycotting the companies making the media (not the media itself) until they stop supporting franchises like HP.
Does that make sense? It’s never made sense to me.
Hate to break it to you, but you can absolutely lose memories. Time is a bitch.
Oh, I know. I used to work in a nursing home. Dementia is horrifying. But in the meantime, the memories are still with me, and that’s good enough.
They are not even good, why is everyone crazy about these books?
They came out at peak millennial, at the intersection of shared cultural experiences and early social media. Before the internet a book wouldn’t go global like HP did, and after algorithmic feeds there haven’t really been cultural experiences shared so broadly.
I agree. I wish I could understand.
Then I remember that stuff like Twilight makes it into best selling territory and I give up trying to understand.
They are easy to read and were some people’s introduction to fantasy/fiction (not everything is as dull as school assignments) and a set of shared experiences growing up.
Even when the books were written I found even the concept pretty stupid. “You need a wand to do magic” 🤷♂️ “We can teleport but you have to use a train to get to school” 🤦♂️ And the story is a ripoff of too many previous stories.
World building was shit. New stuff was being added in later books that, if it existed in early books, would have made the story so different.
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Childhood nostalgia I guess.
I am too old to have any for this series, but still even if I did, I don’t understand why you can’t drop it. I realise plenty of the things I liked in my childhood was commercialised nonsense, and I have no desire to keep revisiting it.
Because the US (I guess the UK as well) is full of adults who haven’t read a single book since HP. It’s their only reference point.
Same fucking reason why Star Wars, Star Trek, Ghostbusters and many other old good media is still popular today. Nostalgia.
The best way to enjoy something that may benefit a problematic person is to simply acquire it in a way that doesn’t benefit them. Perhaps whilst on board a ship with a nice barrel of grog.
I don’t know, but as I grew older and the world became more harsh, out of cynicism I stopped investing in so much pop culture and especially personalities who have or could possibly make an about-face.
I am going to admit I enjoyed the series a lot 20 years ago, can’t say I’ve read ger stuff since the series ended and haven’t done anything to support her since the whole TERF thing came out and she started showing what sort of person she was. I recently picked up my old books to see if they held up and by god is it filled with bigoted stereotypes, Cho Chang (two last names) for the Chinese girl, Goblins being the obvious stereotype/alehory of Jews from a European who was “open minded” about Jews pre ww2 but still wanted to make sure that they deserved some of the bad shit that happened to them because they’re vicious even if unfair wizard laws were passed, the black auror being called Shackelbolt, the wezeleys being very much catholics for being poor with too many kids, the french being snobbish bafoons but classy, the Centaurs being either polytheists or gypsies, the list just goes on and Harry being the hero just gets rid of the head Nazi while leaving the institutions and culture in place, doesn’t even think about the slavery aspect except for Dobby, and he and Ron make fun of Hermione for her pushing for their freedom. I guess the reason why people enjoy the series is because the world feels somewhat real and magical because she put her imagination and bigotry into the story and never thought of trying to have the protagonists actually solve a major issue and will let it fester.
Shitting on people for enjoying something isn’t good praxis, folks. Be mad at the system, not the victims of it.
You can steal all media Harry Potter, not finance insane bigotry and save money, too!
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” is true, but there’s degrees to that truth and you can still make choices.
Pirating is still consumption. I never made an argument against it. And there are plenty of perspectives (none that I personally agree with) that will argue that pirating media is unethical. Also, not everyone can pirate things, not everyone is that tech savvy to not get caught, and denying themselves simple comforts does nothing to stop the system from being what it is. Also, not everything can be pirated in the case of physical objects for people who want to indulge in a fandom.
No matter what you purchase under capitalism, you are supporting bigotry and oppression to some degree. There is no escaping it. So instead of arguing about the arbitrary line at which the degree of separation is far enough removed before you can enjoy something without guilt, maybe start talking about actually dismantling the system that allows them to oppress others to begin with?
There being no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn’t absolve you from trying.
Idk your situation but if you support harry potter after all the heinous shit jk has said she has and will do we are not and never will be friends, you are voting with your dollars to hurt people.
I havent paid a single cent to HP franchise in ages. But I still find books cool. Should I disregard quality/fun aspect of something even if creator of that thing is a POS and I havent gave them any money in a very long time?
You can’t easily change what you enjoy, I would take what you like from it and explore other similar properties. If hp is something that has special meaning to you i get it, I would just hope you don’t support the creator.
Ya, tons of people did with Neil Gaiman.
You can like and enjoy the Harry Potter fictional setting without supporting JK and her TERF bullshit. They are two separate things.
“Voting with your dollar” is a shortsighted reaction. You fail to understand the meaning behind “no ethical consumption under capitalism”. It doesn’t matter where you spend your dollars, it is inevitably supporting bigotry and oppression because of the simple fact that every sale is being profited off of by the owning-class and the e.pirialost system.
Or did you forget that our taxes are currently funding Israel’s genocide?
Again, be mad at the system, not the victims of it.
To be clear i hate the system I’m stuck in, and had i the power to stop the genocide i would, in the meantime I’m telling you she has stated unequivocally that all the money she makes off the harry potter series will be put into her organization that is on a crusade to eliminate trans people. If you give her money by buying merch, watching her show, drawing fanart even, you are giving her attention and that can lead to others saying oh it’s okay to like this thing and that gets her more power money and influence. There is no ethical consumption but this is a hard line I will not intentionally consume something that has a direct line to hurting people, saying it’s impossible to do good is a fucking weak excuse to not try.
Again, you’re missing the point. Just completely and blatantly missing the point.
No one is handing money directly to JK. She is receiving money through a convoluted system of private ownership that enables her to demand royalty payments for the usage of the Harry Potter universe. She is making money off the back of other people just wanting to make their own art and works of this fictional universe.
Through your logic, there is literally not a single thing you can purchase that cannot be directly traced through our system of economics to funding or supporting something atrocious. That is the entire meaning behind “no ethical consumption under capitalism”. You literally cannot escape it unless you abstain entirely from utilizing the capitalist system.
Yet I’m sure you still purchase things. Because you choose for yourself which things to justify and which things not to based on your own arbitrary standards you set for yourself.
Let other people do the same for themselves and quit shaming them because their arbitrary line doesn’t fall where yours does.
Be mad at the system that enables bigots to consolidate power and profit off of other people and the things they enjoy.
So instead of telling people they shouldn’t directly give money to bigots i should just be angry at capitalism in general because it enables bigots.
No.
There is a new show because people asked for it, it’s gonna make her money because there will be new merch, subscription money, and renewed interest in the books from new people exposed to the show.
It isn’t a magic money machine it’s the market and people saying let people enjoy things are enabling others to think that this new batch of terf powered hog wash is acceptable and it will make the lives of an already marginalized group harder.
Can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink.
Continue to be mad at victims of the system. That’ll surely show 'em.
You’re telling me to be mad at the system I’m stuck in rather than ask people to not financially support hate speech.
If circlejerking in hufflepuff, magical creature slavery and using magic to disappear your poop is that important to you I can’t help.
You are so convinced you are correct that it genuinely makes me wonder why you posted an opinion.
Whataboutism
Theres also a massive distinction between consuming something necessary/important, vs consuming something 100% optional.
Harry Potter isnt food, shelter, or any other kind of critical necessity.
Theres literally countless better alternatives to Harry Potter media you can choose to consume from that doesnt directly put money straight into the pocket of someone actively funding direct harm
This isn’t multiple layers of washing here, that money basically goes straight towards actively harming minority groups.
Its not even a good fucking book, and I used to be a fan of it as a kid, but I went back and read my old books and… it just fuckin sucks dawg, its not good lol.
Go pick like, any other fandom at least.
Thanks for being the voice of reason. Wish more people could see things this way because I really hate when people start whining about my blood diamonds collection. I just like shinny shit, let me enjoy it ffs.
Wow. Nailed it.
How utterly disingenuous to compare a fucking childrens book series to blood diamonds.
I know :)
Although, both are unnessential and both enrich awful ppl so…
Also, according to the logic on the meme you shared, its wrong to critizise ppl who buy diamonds because we should let them enjoy them.
Also also, critizising someone for economically supporting awfull ppl by buying their shit is not stopping them from enjoying said shit. Nobody is taking away their stuff, they can ignore us. However asking ppl to stay silent in the name of someones enjoyment is an attempt to make us give away our freedom to express our opinion.
Also, also also, What if I like critizising them? Let me enjoy it goddamn it!
Apples to oranges buddy but you clearly aren’t here in good faith, so, get fucked. I’ll not entertain you.
No u
Yeah, let JK Rowling do the entertaining, it was kind of her job.
In February 2023, Rowling participated in the podcast The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling, hosted by former Westboro Baptist Church member Megan Phelps-Roper and produced by Bari Weiss’s The Free Press. The show purported to add more nuance to the controversy surrounding Rowling, but in practice it mostly served as another pulpit for the author. Part of the draw was that Rowling gave a forthright interview on her beliefs about trans people for the first time. “I believe, absolutely, that there is something dangerous about this movement and that it must be challenged,” she said.
She then compared trans people to Death Eaters, the evil collective in the Harry Potter books that are often read as a Nazi analogue. “Some of you have not understood the books. The Death Eaters claimed, ‘We have been made to live in secret, and now is our time, and any who stand in our way must be destroyed. If you disagree with us, you must die,’” Rowling said. “They demonized and dehumanized those who were not like them.”
“I am fighting what I see as a powerful, insidious, misogynistic movement that has gained huge purchase in very influential areas of society,” Rowling continued. “I do not see this particular movement as either benign or powerless, so I’m afraid I stand with the women who are fighting to be heard against threats of loss of livelihood and threats to their safety.”
https://www.thecut.com/2025/06/heres-what-j-k-rowling-has-really-said-about-trans-people.html
We can all laugh at the pure fiction she invents, and quietly ignore how the money we give her affects the world around us.
No matter what you purchase under capitalism, you are supporting bigotry and oppression to some degree. There is no escaping it. So instead of arguing about the arbitrary line at which the degree of separation is far enough removed before you can enjoy something without guilt, maybe start talking about actually dismantling the system that allows them to oppress others to begin with?
https://slrpnk.net/comment/21718703
I’m a little confused why you suddenly want to start drawing lines about what’s ethical.
I WAS that Harry Potter fan. The overly obsessed nerd who was waaaaaay to into it. But now I’m over it because fuck Rowling.
I don’t even plan to pirate the hp tv show. Fuck Jk Rowling so fucking hard. Fuck the piece of shit. Ugh
I’m in the exact same boat. I don’t want her to even get THOSE numbers. Like how HBO bragged about got piracy numbers
I was a huge fan back then and nowadays I’m like " This thread is how I learn, that there’s a new show announced?" - shows how much I care about that franchise today, lol.
Yup. I was a DIE HARD fan of hairy pothead until rowling showed her true colours. Now I won’t even watch HP or read the books, even if they’re pirated. She’s a bigoted POS and she can rot in hell.
The entire franchise is just so fucking mid, I don’t understand why people worship it so much. The invented language in particular is cringe as fuck and sounds like shit a child would come up with.
Yeah see this is my whole main problem.
The writing and story are just… ok?
I could identify the racist tropes and body shaming just interwoven into the whole series before I hit puberty.
Oh then of course slavery is good sometimes actually, here I invented a scenario where this is true.
I got bored of Harry Potter, and just reread Animorphs.
Which certainly has problematic characters and moments and events… but … they are bad things, that the characters have to actually deal with, its a much more complex and engaging story overall, imo, though of course the serial format means that some books are not so great in comparison to others.
Kinda the same thing with Redwall.
Man, I have literally heard people say you should burn the books and movies you probably already owned long before Rowling was known to be a TERF. The art isn’t the problem. As long as you’re not continuing to financially support the bitch herself, Harry Potter himself ain’t gonna harm trans people.
Thet was likely overzealous religious folk. Because it had magic and witches it was deemed by them to be demonic. I’m quite sure they would be surprised to learn the author of the books they hated was an ally for one of their other beliefs.
The art isn’t the problem
Yeah, it’s not like you have anything like
- Two Indian characters named after the region they’re supposed to be from
- Stereotypically named Irish character obsessed with blowing stuff up and making alcohol
- An Asian character named “cho chang”
- Bankers that are barely disguised anti-Semitic tropes
- Literally a tweet saying only “Anthony Goldstein, Ravenclaw, Jewish wizard.” in response to accusations of no Jewish wizards
- Naming the black adult “Shacklebolt”
what’s with the shacklebolt one? is it like shackles as a nod to slavery or what?
Yeah, that’s my only explanation for that kind of a name for a black person. Whether or not it was intentional, I have to assume she’s massively racist, as are all of her editors/publisher. Too many people has the opportunity to say ‘what the fuck, lady’, and it still went to print.
What’s wrong with Cho Chang?
Even if a book I read as a teenager was the best book of all time and the author was the greatest person to ever live who was literally Jesus I would still read other books because being a literate adult requires one to read a wide variety of new material over time lol
I feel like this is aimed at the new tv series. It’s more about not watching the new content and not rereading.
I’ve seen people demonizing watching then discussing it with people, since it’s spreading it, even if you don’t buy it. I get it since jk is basically trans enemy number 1, but it does feel a bit intense. That being said, If I watch it, I’m pirating it and not really discussing it with anyone since I have no friend, so I don’t have to worry about it.
Oh yeah that tracks I guess, I don’t really watch tv series and saw they were holding a book in the meme but there is a poster about the series.
You never read a book more than once?
On rare occasions, no YA books unless I’m reading them to a kid. I’m not going to reread the The Chronicles of Narnia either. I haven’t read Harry Potter because it came out when I was in college but I don’t believe from what I know that there is enough substance to Harry Potter to make me want reread them if I had.
I read about a book every week and am in multiple book clubs and have a huge list of books to read so going back and reading fluff from when I was a kid is not going to make the cut because I am an adult. The point I made is about actual literacy though, if you are just rereading the same books and not engaging with the wide variety of works and authors through time you aren’t really exercising your literacy muscles. I loved the Hitchhikers Guide series too, but I already read it and probably won’t read it again. There are more books to read than I have life to live.
I personally feel that it’s perfectly fine to boycott problematic figures. Speech has real effects and should be treated like it.
But once you accept the equivalence of speech/reading and violence you can start choosing to regulate speech/reading as violence, or free up violence as speech. I don’t think either is a great idea. Do you think that any of you have never said something hurtful to others? Should you be jailed for it?
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
I know its a hyperbolic example (though entirely possible in the context you describe)
What would be your thoughts on speech that had the effectual equivalent of murder?
There’s no traps here im just interested in the thought process behind the context you provided.
Side note: if verbal violence is possible then it would probably track that there are degrees of violence, much like the physical equivalent.
If that’s true the argument that you shouldn’t regulate subjectively heavy violence because “who here hasn’t physically hurt someone?” Isn’t a reasonable as it sounds at first glance.
For the record, Rowling is a shitbag, the potter books are mediocre and the actors were the best thing about the movies.
None of that bias is in the foundation of my questions though.
Speech equivalent to murder? Well calls to violence, or criminal conspiracy are crimes. But that’s kind of a cop-out because they lead to eventual killing via non-speech means.
Actual murder via speech would be… stuff like shouting fire in a crowded movie theater. (This is also already a crime.)
I used effectual equivalent for a reason.
I did say it was somewhat hyperbolous but there are real life examples that are possible.
Something like extended bullying directly leading to suicide, lies with the intention of causing harm or death.
Calls to violence that lead to deaths that otherwise wouldn’t likely happen is a good example of one that can be technically correct but difficult to prove.
Intentionally telling someone a door leads to safety when it actually leads to a spike pit is effectually the same as stabbing them yourself.
Are those examples good enough for an answer?
Im looking for how the idea holds up at the logical extreme so I can understand the bounds of the theoretical context.
There doesn’t have to be a good answer either, some ideas only work in a limited boundary and break down at the extremes.
I know this is a bit of an extreme example. Leaving an abusive spouse leads to suicides. You can’t blanket assign responsibility in all cases. It needs to be reasonable.
In cases of targeted harassment, sure. I think cases like that have gone to trial.
But if seeing someone walk into a book signing by a woman with regressive views on trans related stuff tips someone over the edge to suicide I don’t feel that’s reasonably assignable blame. Seeing J.K.Rowling succeed is such a minor thing compared to the child raping cannibal cults we have running things. It just does not even register.
Calls to violence are outright crimes where I live, whether any violence occurs or not. I think you might get a lighter sentence if nothing happens, not sure. Just like you don’t get off with no charges if you shoot at someone and miss.
I await all the civil and non-hurtful replies from peaceful and sympathetic people I am likely to garner for this stance.
You are a
greatperson Iagreewith you and hope youliveThanks, stranger. I hope you live and are happy even if we someday come to disagree on some things. You are more important to me than almost any disagreement.
O don’t mind anyone enjoying media from problematic figures if they enjoy it. I just don’t want those fans to monetarily support those figures.
Sail the high seas if you wanna partake in such content.
Even if you download it and J.K.R. doesn’t see a penny you’re still engaging with media that is anti-trans and that’s just as bad. There is no ethical consumption of her work, full stop.
Is there anything anti-trans in Harry Potter?
I genuinely don’t know. I’ve never read or watched it.
She actively funds anti-trans causes
There is nothing in the books itself that is anti trans (AFAIK and remember), it is that people equate her works with her political views which are anti trans. As a most likely trans person myself (still working out the details of it, stay tuned) I have a real struggle at my hands. On the one hand her books were a massive part of my childhood and early teens. I waited in line out side book stores to get the newest one. On the other hand she uses the money she gets from licenses and the IP to fund anti trans organisations. She also uses her fame / reach to spread TERF points of view. I enjoy and love the world she created back then but I cannot in good conscience consume anything that supports her now. Not any merch, series, film or game.
I on my ow may not make a difference but the sum is more than it parts. If enough ppl. start voicing their objection to her and her views, boycott the new stuff because of her, some change might be possible. If not, sacrificing something I loved growing up is an acceptable price to pay to keep me and others safe.
HOW are the Harry Potter books Anti-trans? Where in ANY of the books do they promote Anti Trans attitudes?
How is this difficult to understand? She wrote the books. The books are hers. The books themselves promote anti-trans attitudes, regardless of whether or not they have anti-trans themes. Anyone who still consumes any of her work is transphobic. It really is that simple.
Someone doesn’t understand the concept of “separate the art from the artist”
Your overly simplistic take is just naive. It actually isn’t “that simple”. You are.
You didn’t address the questions at all.
HOW are the Harry Potter books Anti-trans? Where in ANY of the books do they promote Anti Trans attitudes?
To that I would add that if you want to recommend such content to others it should preferably done with the addition of how others could access it through alternative means. Just to reduce the chance the recommendation leads to any extra income.
are we allowed to do that here
um
I can
But I think most people on Lemmy already know
Sorry I’m high
You’re doing great, friend. You mean like talk about torrenting? Mostly yes. Looks like your instance says you can talk about piracy, so long as you don’t link to any pirated content, or links to piracy sites. I guess you can still talk about streaming or file sharing platforms that show up on the first page when you google.
