One thing I learned while living in Japan and teaching English is that people who speak foreign languages might hear things differently from you.
The most striking example was that my students often couldn’t even hear the difference between “she” and “sea” unless I was pointing it out in isolation. The difference is obvious to English speakers, but subtle to Japanese speakers.
And yes, there are examples the other way, but they’re harder to explain here. Often, it’s the difference between vowel sounds. Japanese are more strict, but an English speaker might not distinguish between an ‘i’ and an ‘e’ sound at speed. And have a bigger tendency to slur their pronunciation in this case.
But anyway, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were similar things in French and English.
So how can you know if you’re speaking perfectly unless you check with a native? Only when you’re nearing fluency can you start to understand.
Japanese is a syllable-timed language whereas English is a stress-timed language. That makes a big difference when it comes to the clarity of vowel sounds. In English in unimportant syllables, the vowel sounds get relaxed and tend towards being prounounced as a Schwa. In Japanese, syllables are expected to take more or less the same time each, and as a result there’s no relaxation of the pronunciation of the vowel sounds.
So, for example, when an American says “Toyota” they’ll tend to say “tuh-YO-duh” because the natural emphasis in English is on the second syllable, which means the unstressed syllables get relaxed and become more like the schwa sound. Also, the “t” sound shifts to a “d” sound because it’s easier not to cut off the vocalization to hit that final “t”, and since it’s unstressed it doesn’t matter so much. In Japanese it’s “TO-Yo-Ta’” The first syllable is slightly stressed and every vowel sound is clear, and the final “t” is important. In fact, the name used to be “Toyoda” named after the founding family’s name, and they intentionally switched that to a “t” sound instead.
Even among the other stress timed languages, English is especially reductive. In German, a final “en” gets folded into the word; “haben” becomes “ham”. But in almost all other cases, unstressed vowels retain their pronunciation.
Motor as two distinct o-sounds and doesn’t become moter/motur. Or the word “specialised” could have the “e” maybe but def the “ia” turn into a schwa. Meanwhile “spezialisiert” retains every vowel as they were.
If you haven’t heard a spoken sound in your first few years of life (I’ve even seen people claim months), it’s very hard to learn to tell the difference well. You can learn to pronounce them perfectly at any age, but a lot of the time subtly different words will be hard to distinguish if you didn’t grow up with hearing them.
Argentinians (and possibly other Spanish speakers) struggle with e.g. “peach” vs “pitch”, and worry about mispronouncing “beach”.
Some Asians famously struggle with R vs L, which seems baffling to a speaker of western languages, but if you actually look at the frequencies, they’re nearly identical sounds. We’ve just been trained from infancy to hone in on the difference to the point that it’s hard to comprehend them sounding similar to other people.
Absolutely once you get to the age of ten your ears are tuned to the language(s) you’ve already learned and you’ll never hear the same as a native speaker of a different language. If you weren’t raised in French you cannot hear the differences between é è and ê
Eeehhh. Native speaker here. I can hear the difference, doesn’t mean I can pronounce it without it feeling alien. In my southwestern accent, a distinct “ê” doesn’t really exist. We tend to ignore length and/or closed vowels.
For example, “les” /le/ (pl. the) and “laid” /lɛ/ (ugly) are both pronounced [le], “fête” /fɛt/ (party) and “faîte” /fɛ:t/ (roof ridge) are both [fɛt]. Another exemple is “ô” and “o” being both merged into a very open [ɔ], “paume” (palm) and “pomme” (apple) sound exactly the same.
A better distinction is between parlerai and parlerais. The first one ends in /e/ the second one in /ɛ/. It’s important to distinguish them because one is the future tense (I will do something) and one is the conditional future (I would do something).
I learned French in Canada, but learned mostly from teachers speaking in a France-French accent, so I’ve heard both Quebec-style and French-style pronunciations.
To my ear, both French and English pronounce the month of May the same way: “may”, “mai”. But apparently some French speakers say /mɛ/. But, what about, “élève”? Surely you don’t say the two “e” sounds in that one the same way, right?
English speakers can absolutely hear and pronounce the difference between “é” and “è”. It’s the difference between “red” and “raid” or “let” and “late”.
As for “ê”, it doesn’t have a pronunciation of its own. In “être” it’s pronounced the same as “è”. In “vêtu” it’s pronounced the same as “é”.
No, neither are diphthongs. I guess the two examples I chose can be pronounced as diphthongs.
“é” the “acute” accent is pronounced like day, fiancé / fiancée. English has a tendency to make those into diphthongs, especially if you’re speaking slowly. But if you’re speaking quickly and it’s between consonants like say “mandate” you don’t really hear the second vowel sound in that supposed diphthong. But, it’s just the /e/ vowel sound in IPA. In any case, it’s a sound that English speakers make and can hear.
“è” the “grave” accent is pronounced like pet, jet, etc. It’s /ɛ/ in IPA.
Two vowels written has very little to do with how something is pronounced in English:
Words with 2 adjacent vowels but no diphthong:
Food
Flood
Been
Head
Coat
Words with only 1 vowel but a diphthong
Crowd
Sky
Few
Cake (silent e, obviously)
If you say “day” in a very long way like in the beginning of the banana boat song you really think that it sounds like the “e” sound in “pet”? Do you really hear two different vowel sounds there? If so when does it transition to the second one?
a friend of mine which immigrated to my country 15 years ago speaks 6 languages and she’s really really good with languages, yet she still doesn’t sound like she grew up here. i think mastering a language so that native speakers can’t ever tell you’re not a native speaker is very hard or almost impossible. maybe it’s not the same for all languages but german is one of those languages where i think it’s extremely hard.
One thing I learned while living in Japan and teaching English is that people who speak foreign languages might hear things differently from you.
The most striking example was that my students often couldn’t even hear the difference between “she” and “sea” unless I was pointing it out in isolation. The difference is obvious to English speakers, but subtle to Japanese speakers.
And yes, there are examples the other way, but they’re harder to explain here. Often, it’s the difference between vowel sounds. Japanese are more strict, but an English speaker might not distinguish between an ‘i’ and an ‘e’ sound at speed. And have a bigger tendency to slur their pronunciation in this case.
But anyway, it wouldn’t surprise me if there were similar things in French and English.
So how can you know if you’re speaking perfectly unless you check with a native? Only when you’re nearing fluency can you start to understand.
Japanese is a syllable-timed language whereas English is a stress-timed language. That makes a big difference when it comes to the clarity of vowel sounds. In English in unimportant syllables, the vowel sounds get relaxed and tend towards being prounounced as a Schwa. In Japanese, syllables are expected to take more or less the same time each, and as a result there’s no relaxation of the pronunciation of the vowel sounds.
So, for example, when an American says “Toyota” they’ll tend to say “tuh-YO-duh” because the natural emphasis in English is on the second syllable, which means the unstressed syllables get relaxed and become more like the schwa sound. Also, the “t” sound shifts to a “d” sound because it’s easier not to cut off the vocalization to hit that final “t”, and since it’s unstressed it doesn’t matter so much. In Japanese it’s “TO-Yo-Ta’” The first syllable is slightly stressed and every vowel sound is clear, and the final “t” is important. In fact, the name used to be “Toyoda” named after the founding family’s name, and they intentionally switched that to a “t” sound instead.
Even among the other stress timed languages, English is especially reductive. In German, a final “en” gets folded into the word; “haben” becomes “ham”. But in almost all other cases, unstressed vowels retain their pronunciation.
Motor as two distinct o-sounds and doesn’t become moter/motur. Or the word “specialised” could have the “e” maybe but def the “ia” turn into a schwa. Meanwhile “spezialisiert” retains every vowel as they were.
I’m native german and it’s To-Yo-Ta too.
If you haven’t heard a spoken sound in your first few years of life (I’ve even seen people claim months), it’s very hard to learn to tell the difference well. You can learn to pronounce them perfectly at any age, but a lot of the time subtly different words will be hard to distinguish if you didn’t grow up with hearing them.
Argentinians (and possibly other Spanish speakers) struggle with e.g. “peach” vs “pitch”, and worry about mispronouncing “beach”.
Some Asians famously struggle with R vs L, which seems baffling to a speaker of western languages, but if you actually look at the frequencies, they’re nearly identical sounds. We’ve just been trained from infancy to hone in on the difference to the point that it’s hard to comprehend them sounding similar to other people.
Absolutely once you get to the age of ten your ears are tuned to the language(s) you’ve already learned and you’ll never hear the same as a native speaker of a different language. If you weren’t raised in French you cannot hear the differences between é è and ê
Eeehhh. Native speaker here. I can hear the difference, doesn’t mean I can pronounce it without it feeling alien. In my southwestern accent, a distinct “ê” doesn’t really exist. We tend to ignore length and/or closed vowels.
For example, “les” /le/ (pl. the) and “laid” /lɛ/ (ugly) are both pronounced [le], “fête” /fɛt/ (party) and “faîte” /fɛ:t/ (roof ridge) are both [fɛt]. Another exemple is “ô” and “o” being both merged into a very open [ɔ], “paume” (palm) and “pomme” (apple) sound exactly the same.
That’s a bad example because “les” can be pronounced either as /lɛ/ or /le/.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/les#Pronunciation_7
A better distinction is between parlerai and parlerais. The first one ends in /e/ the second one in /ɛ/. It’s important to distinguish them because one is the future tense (I will do something) and one is the conditional future (I would do something).
I learned French in Canada, but learned mostly from teachers speaking in a France-French accent, so I’ve heard both Quebec-style and French-style pronunciations.
To my ear, both French and English pronounce the month of May the same way: “may”, “mai”. But apparently some French speakers say /mɛ/. But, what about, “élève”? Surely you don’t say the two “e” sounds in that one the same way, right?
Exactly, those are two very very different sounds to me. May is meh-ee. Mai is just meh.
English speakers can absolutely hear and pronounce the difference between “é” and “è”. It’s the difference between “red” and “raid” or “let” and “late”.
As for “ê”, it doesn’t have a pronunciation of its own. In “être” it’s pronounced the same as “è”. In “vêtu” it’s pronounced the same as “é”.
so è is a dipthong??
No, neither are diphthongs. I guess the two examples I chose can be pronounced as diphthongs.
“é” the “acute” accent is pronounced like day, fiancé / fiancée. English has a tendency to make those into diphthongs, especially if you’re speaking slowly. But if you’re speaking quickly and it’s between consonants like say “mandate” you don’t really hear the second vowel sound in that supposed diphthong. But, it’s just the /e/ vowel sound in IPA. In any case, it’s a sound that English speakers make and can hear.
“è” the “grave” accent is pronounced like pet, jet, etc. It’s /ɛ/ in IPA.
You mean like British pronunciation i guess?
Nope.
Idk man im here in the midwest and day is always a dipthong (two vowels written after all) and if you do cut it off it’s the same e sound as pet/jet
Two vowels written has very little to do with how something is pronounced in English:
Words with 2 adjacent vowels but no diphthong:
Words with only 1 vowel but a diphthong
If you say “day” in a very long way like in the beginning of the banana boat song you really think that it sounds like the “e” sound in “pet”? Do you really hear two different vowel sounds there? If so when does it transition to the second one?
a friend of mine which immigrated to my country 15 years ago speaks 6 languages and she’s really really good with languages, yet she still doesn’t sound like she grew up here. i think mastering a language so that native speakers can’t ever tell you’re not a native speaker is very hard or almost impossible. maybe it’s not the same for all languages but german is one of those languages where i think it’s extremely hard.