China is bad, just not nearly as bad as the US anymore.
If, over the next 10 years, your country became more and more like China, would you go along with the changes? Would you have any problems with the transformation?
- modern electricity grid quickly moving away from fossil fuels
- high speed train network
- cheap fresh produce
- affordable housing
- transitioning to socialism via the development of productive forces
- strong investment in education and R&D
- quickly advancing tech in almost every sector that matters
- people-directed governance that is not subservient to capital (foreign or domestic)
- very low crime
- ecological restoration that won’t get cancelled by the next elected administration
- cheap and good quality healthcare
- bold long term vision and consistent achievement of it over time
objectively better than just about any other place
I wish my country became more like China over the next decade
They’ve been around, as a civilization, for over 5,000 years. I’d like to think you don’t make it that long without doing a thing or 2 right.
but but have you considered the abstract values???
i would literally kill for half the amenities they have in China.
You forget the part where they hear China is bad from their friends
you mean their occupied subjects not friends.
I think they meant that we’re also propagandized by our peers
Westerners today have so much in common with their inquisition and crusades predecessors. They replaced Christianity with Western Liberalism and they fight for it with the same zeal. Either you adopt their values and systems or you are an evil heathen who must be destroyed.
Makes even more sense one you realize that the inquisition and witch hunts were deeply intertwined with the forceful establishment of capitalism
There’s an interesting blog that analyzes the transition of political economy from medieval europe to the rise of capital through a perspective of the mechanics of occult practices. It’s pretty well thought out and compares church occult practices and their relations to “capital occultism” via social relations and rituals.
This post is about how money aka capital is transmuted to embody commodified labor value in a similar structure of social relations (“occult magic”) as the holy cracker being consecrated and transmuted to embody the flesh of Jesus Christ.
https://ianwrightsite.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/dark-eucharist-of-the-real-god/
The previous post is also quite good that covers the concept of Marx’s “real god” that is manifested via the capital imperative to continuously increase profit and accumulation.
Its like comparing the Federation and the Empire from elite dangerous lol.
Empire elitists always talking about how bad the Federation is because of the insane capitalist abuse of power, and billions of humans subjected to horrific conditions.
And then Federation liberals talking about how the Empire literally has legalized slavery and a monarchy that runs on the death of humans.
Although technically there’s also the stereotypical Asian CEO who has a 15% discount on all ships and modules in his systems, so I guess that’s probably the successor to Ali Express lol.
That all being said, the post above this is an article trying to explain how China plating 78 billion trees was a bad idea lmao.
Star Wars and other movie tropes. This is theory for some people. Absolutely infantile.
No you see the USA is Snape, China is Voldemort
I’m dying
If you can find me a governance representing more than 100 million people that is genuinely good, with no ifs ands or buts about it, I can prove that you are the brainwashed one.
Why does it need to be perfect to be good?
Hmm, must be an llm, they never said the word perfect. They never said anything had to be perfect.
How does that feel?
How does that feel?
Embarassing in a secondhand way?
Well kind of funny because it’s not at all comparable to what you’re trying to compare it to. Also I never called anyone an llm I asked if they used it as it left an artefact.
I need it to stop doing evil things first. I am all for reducing the evil, less evil is always great and ill always vote for a lesser evil. But dont expect me to a government structure good if it is still doing evil things. Ill call a politician good if they want to decrease the evil. But I will not call a country good if its still evil.
It’s wild to me that grown adults still use “good” and “evil” as an actual heuristic
K.
Of course evil is an actual heuristic - what point are you trying to make here?
It’s a useless heuristic, because it’s a fuckin magical metaphysical one. If you’re not a christian who believes in a spirit world, then stop letting the church define reality for you. Good and evil as concepts have no more valence on physical reality than karma or sin, and have no power to explain things that happen.
Children think in good and evil. Adults think in cause and effect. Be scientific.
This whole post is brigaded. No where on the internet is safe.
If you don’t like seeing commies don’t come to spaces where we hang out lol
That’s right, we’re everywhere and we’re coming for you👻
Muhahahaha
I have a question, what is your opinion on lesser evil? Is America the lesser evil in your opinion?
America is evil. There are politicians who are lesser evils within the usa. They dont make the US not evil, just less evil.
I don’t know individual politicians in china, but im sure there are plenty of lesser evil politicians there. That doesnt mean china isnt also doing evil things. I hope the evil reduces there. And in the usa. And everywhere else.
What are the evil things that China is doing? And on that note, what are these “lesser evil” politicians? Are you equating China as on the same level of evil as the US?
The Uyghurs genocide that’s ongoing was shoved down our throats for years yet you people forget? Uh huh.
Do you deny the white genocide in south africa?
was shoved down our throats for years
I wonder why!
Here’s two examples of evil things that China is doing:
Persecution of Uyghurs in China
Internet censorship in Chinalol did you just google “evil things china does” and paste the first wikipedia links you find?
"China is good!’
“I disagree.”
Removed by mod
“China is actually not hell on earth”
“You’re just brainwashed, everyone there is actually dead”
Removed by mod
I’m not sure your point. What’s removed in your example? It’s clear that normal comments are being removed as our China government official in the thread has nicely quoted removed comments proving nothing bad was said at all.
China government official in the thread
He is not affiliated with the CPC, but thank you for demonstrating how quickly “good” liberals devolve into conspiratorial racism as soon as their sense of nationalist superiority is shaken.
My god the comments. You are perfectly allowed to not know much about a country. I don’t know about PRC either. But I know to keep my mouth shut on matters I don’t know about. I don’t go on parroting propaganda for those things.
It’s all about geography , if China was on the map like Australia or more like the US they wouldn’t have any problems if they had plenty of space and no neighbors.
What no political theory does to a mf
in the space of 3000 years three different social systems have been successively superseded in Europe: the primitive communal system, the slave system and the feudal system.
this is talking about the romans right?
Among others yes. The Greeks who invented democracy™️ also had a slave system.
Here’s the rest of the text (I see I missed the source)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
thanks.
You say this as if the US didn’t have problems with it’s neighbours and as if that stopped them from invading and bombing countries abroad. China does none of that bs even by having thrice the amount of border neighbours.
“They shouldn’t have built their country near our military bases”
Can’t understand what you’re saying. Can you elaborate? The propaganda against China is not coming from its neighbours as far as I know.
He means the UwU occupied american subjects, Japan SK philippines, who make these statements from time to time to appease their overlord.
I’m an American. China might not be bad, but they ain’t going to be good to me. America isn’t good to me either.
You’d be surprised, the worst thing that could happen to you while traveling to really any global south country is getting scammed (overcharging for a meal or taxi) and that’s about it. Most people are very welcoming and will be friendly even excited to see a foreigner. It’s pretty much just Europe and North america where people treat you rude or at best just indiffirently if they see you’re a tourist.
Streamers ludwig and some other recently filmed a trip throughout mainland China and it’s pure good vibes.
You need to watch foreigners stream in America. They have the same lovely experiences (and with the worst people to boot). This idea you’ll get treated badly in the usa as a tourist is a lie.
America is not a foreign country to you, unlike China.
This comment section is filthy! And all of that just to justify the chinese imperialistic ambitions. Looks really twisted to me.
I appreciate the term “imperialistic ambitions,” because it acknowledges that China hasn’t actually done stuff that you could plausibly call imperialist, so all you can do is criticize stuff that they might possibly want to do someday.
Literally the spongebob “No, but are we gonna wait around until he does?”
You’re who this meme is about
Please define imperialism and explain what imperialist ambitions China has.
China can have products that are great and cheap. China can also have stolen designs and inhumane labor practices. They’re not mutually exclusive.
I don’t care if they are against capitalism, I’m not simping for authoritarians.
The working classes use state authority for pro-social policy and to prebent capitalists from gaining political power, as opposed to capitalist authority for pro-profit policy and to prevent the working classes from gaining political power. Authority has a class dynamic, analysis without class erases the core distinction.
Lol America, land of the free, they literally arrested anyone who said they were a communist and confiscated your gold because they said it was illegal.
Yet China is frowned upon.
Flash news, America is authoritarian
But which countries are not authoritarian, and why?
Whataboutism.
Because America are the thoughtful, non violent democrats, who represent the people, and never start illegal wars?
This is still happening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China
So let’s play a game. The USA is bad, and China is bad. Your turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5j2GcWZEbM
here have an uyghur talking to a propagandized westerner that thinks they know more about their own people.
If the US is bad, why do you believe what they say about others?
Your assessment of China is based on state department propaganda
And yours is based on???
Are you saying you don’t believe in the treatment of wighurs
And you believe this is the truth.
The burden of proof is on you. I can only provide context for the claims that have been raised. If you look at the sources they’re all western
You believe in a genocide with literally no single proof
Are you saying you don’t believe in the white genocide going on in south africa right now?
Are you saying you don’t believe that Hamas beheaded 40 babies?
It’s spelled “Uyghurs”, by the way
Nice moym answer
It’s only a non-answer if you have a sub-canine ability to process patterns
Europe also bad?
Expecting others to adhere to your cultural and political norms is authoritarianism. Not willing to learn or tolerate differences is bigotry.
“Simping” here meaning “viewing with anything less than total antipathy”
Aah yes unlike never authoritarian capitalist governments that totally don’t break in your house to throw you in the cold bitter streets to die because you couldn’t afford rent and made the property “unprofitable”. The West has no right lecturing anyone over human rights and liberty, they could just discard them from their dictionary if only it didn’t serve as great propaganda against their class enemies.
I haven’t seen a single country that doesn’t love to divide by class.
That’s because a state is itself an instrument of class warfare first and foremost. In some places the rich wield the state against the people, and in other places the people wield the state against the rich.
Define authoritarian. The PRC spent decades of anti-colonial struggle defeating British imperialists, Japanese imperialists, feudal reactionaries, and then US imperialists. Do you know more than them about how to defeat vicious empires, “non-authoritarianly”?
they should’ve just prayed and cattered to the imperialists like India.
As malcolm x once said “The West doesn’t not have any love for China but it respects it, while they love India but they do not respect it.”
These very same jerks would love China if it was just another uwu Japan/SKorea hosting US troops.
They’re not even against capitalism. They only pay lip service to anti-capitalism.
Wrong.
Is China State Capitalist?
- The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee.
- Workplace democracy in action in the CPC.
- Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values?
- Didn’t China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn’t it liberalize its economy? Is China’s drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies?
- Is the CPC committed to communism?
- The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook
- The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism?
- Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism?
- Isn’t China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn’t it fully planned like the USSR was?
- Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries.
- Roderic Day - China has billionaires.
- What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)?
- How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev’s market reforms?, 2
- Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2
I’m honestly impressed at the effort you put into this comment. It’ll be a while before I read through all these links, so I’m just gonna save this comment and come back to it occasionally.
About 20% of my passive, after-tax income in retirement comes from Chinese companies.
I own a small slice of private property, in many companies, in China. This morning while I was drinking tea and reading the news, and later when my wife and I went for brunch, and later while we were wandering through local galleries, and now while we’re making dinner, and later while we’re sleeping tonight, we will extract surplus value from Chinese workers to continue to fund our early retirement.
All the links in the world won’t change that.
What not reading anything Deng, Jiang, Hu or Xi wrote will do to a mf. Genuinely amazingly arrogant. Socialism is not Communism and due to living in reality pressing the magic communism button is unfortunately not possible thus we are stuck working through the transitionary period. I wish I had the confidence like you do to be so arrogant on something you know so little about.
Whatever helps you sleep at night brah.
Go back to Reddit
This must go so hard if you know literally fucking nothing about China.
👍
What’s an authoritarian?
State > people
The people control the state in China, though.
The communist party controls the state, and not everyone is a member.
The communist party is a working class party. What exactly do you think the purpose of a party is? And what do you think class is? You seem confused on each.
No just one out of every 14 people, which you may notice is many thousands of times more democratic than any of the western so-called democracies by percentage.
So 13 out of 14 people do not belong to the only political coalition (the 8 parties with 700,000 members total don’t really count as “opposition parties”) that is legally allowed in their country?
In reference to my original post, we agree that authoritarianism is bad and you are arguing the case that China and the CCP is not authoritarian, correct?
They seem to be doing a pretty good job
we agree that authoritarianism is bad
No. We disagree that “authoritarianism” is a meaningful distinction when every government exists by authority. Might as well call it “badguyism”
So what’s a non-authoritarian state?
A state the exists as a servant to a citizenry that is not limited to class or ethnicity. A state served as a safeguard to the human rights of all humans within its sovereignty.
It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated.
So, China
You just described the PRC, and notably not capitalist dictatorships, whose governments don’t represent their people / working class, but the interests of capitalists only.
You desperately need to get past this poli-sci-intro-level understanding of what states are. States are organizations of force for one class (meaning in Marxism their relationship to production) to oppress another. The USA and other liberal countries are capitalist dictatorship over workers, while the PRC is a worker’s dictatorship over capital.
Here are some resources:
I meant like can you give an example of one
Also:
It also serves as a mechanism to efficiently direct resources to human advancement as basic needs are automated.
So like China
Finland
Finland is an imperialist country governed by capitalists.
those right wing warmongering Russophobe US bootlickers?
Jesus, at this point why don’t you just admit that by “non-authoritarian” you just mean “white”.
Finland? Where despite years of protest by the people, the state continues to buy Israeli weapons and cooperate with the zionist entity in the development of military tech and spyware? The state currently ignoring the wishes of it’s people in order to aid and abet a historically unpopular genocide?
The country that was a Nazi ally and didn’t drop the swastika from their air force insignia until 2025? Finland the country currently implementing mass austerity while giving tax cuts to the rich? That Finland?
authoritarians
Thought terminating cliche used by the unintelligent and uninformed to avoid reckoning with reality beyond vibes.
“non authoritarian governments are known to implement mass firewalls and online surveillance”
Every country should be blocking the US surveillance giants, its extremely naive for countries to be letting facebook, twitter, reddit, and google operate unhindered.
There’ no such thing as a “non-authoritarian” state or other myths like the tooth-fairy, but even if they existed, then it’d be hard to argue that letting the US surveillance state operate freely within your borders is somehow “non-authoritarian”. The US is more likely than any other country to use the intelligence they’ve gained learned to harm you physically.
Literally every government with the capability to control information is doing that, and frankly the rise of bleach-injecting covid denialist flat earth tradwife inflluencers has proven China right to do so.
From Merriam-Webster
1 relating to, or favoring blind submission to [authority].
2 relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite not constitutionally responsible to the people
i love that it has the caveat in the second definition abt a constitution. like, no guys, totslly not us, look at this definition we created to show how we arent authoritarian
So like, objectively not China? Because their ruling party consists of 90 million members and they’re constantly debating shit, and enjoy an incredibly high satisfaction rate among non-party members?
104 milliion last I checked.
consists of 90 million members
It’s been over 100 million since 2024
Would a non-aurhoritarian government be able to institute a one-child policy like China?
Given the vagueness of your definition, yes absolutely.
Yes, of course they could. Individual people make the decision to practice birth control every day, and a vast democratic assembly of millions voted in by their peers can make the decision as well.
You clearly don’t understand the purpose of the firewall and the online surveillance is no more than any other country but at least our government is accountable to us as opposed to owned by capital.
the online surveillance is no more than any other country
Hahahaha. Spoken like someone who has never been there or lives in pure ignorance. You just try to use an encrypted chat app while there and see what happens. Or criticise the government.
Oh, you can’t. That VPN…that’ll fix it though. Oh that’s right, they’re illegal.
Just like everywhere else. Hahaha.
I was born and raised here. The VPN is for the firewall which has many reasons to exist and I support, also they’re not illegal. Criticising the government is super common but mostly over mundane stuff because that’s what people care about (there’s a reason the approval even according to Harvard is 95+%). You people are always so arrogant while being so uninformed it’s amazing.
Making a statement that online surveillance there is no different from elsewhere will get you that kind of response tbh. It is measurably worse.
Source: it is known
It simply isn’t. Remember snowden? The NSA? TAO? Pegasus? Our government is simply more open and honest with us (might be a side effect of having real democracy as opposed to a charade put on by bought candidates every 4 years). Also before you say that’s just America, Europe are American vassal states all of these and more (since this is just what has leaked) are deployed against Europeans too and intel is shared in deals like five eyes.
You are literally talking to a Chinese person from China, smug liberal dipshittery knows no bounds
Then they fit the second part, living in ignorance. Online surveillance there is measurably worse.
The firewall was created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder or close to impossible to run at scale. I support it and so do many others as the alternative is plain to see. Also everyone has a VPN we’re not living in ignorance it is in fact people like yourself who are massively ignorant about us and our country.
Are they accountable to you or to party members?
To us. There’s a reason that even from Harvard’s research the government has a 95+% approval.
Direct elections reach the township and county levels where voters choose deputies to local people’s congresses. These grassroots deputies constitute the overwhelming majority of all deputies nationwide. Advancement to higher levels requires proven service at lower rungs, ensuring every national deputy has worked up from local material conditions and remains accountable to the masses below.
Grassroots legislative liaison stations and community consultation channels ensure mass input shapes policy at every stage, making democracy a daily practice not a periodic (meaningless) ritual. Whole-process people’s democracy embeds consultation and pilot programs into governance: policies are tested locally, refined through mass feedback, then scaled nationally. This grounds decisions in what we want and need.
All 55 ethnic minorities hold guaranteed representation in the NPC. Farmers and labourers comprise roughly 15% of deputies while professionals and technical personnel make up the remainder.
Even besides all that if you just look at what the Chinese government does as opposed to those owned by capital. Mass poverty alleviation, anticorruption at all levels, massive investment in socially profitable but monetarily unprofitable public services, deflating the housing bubble. These are not the actions of a government only looking out for a select few.
And also the CPC has over 100million members since 2024 that 1 in 14 people are party members not to mind those who aren’t but are active in consulting due to their position such as most engineers and scientists.
You should be skeptical of any poll or survey that presents that level of agreement on anything with that breadth of societal implications.
How do you square the whole Hong Kong protests in regards to the extradition laws? Or the aggression towards Taiwan?
Just because the anglosphere is a socioeconomic nightmare realm of genocide, immiseration and omnipresent propaganda where everyone is at each other’s throats doesn’t mean everywhere else is too.
What you’re saying is you want to be suspicious of data that paints other places in a better light than us, because it makes you feel bad. You then rationalize this desire as “wisdom” while continuing to apply it selectively against societies your government has told you to hate.
All states are bad, but if we’re talking about which ones are arguably better or worse on the world stage…
“USA USA USA, WE’RE NUMBER 1!”
Proudly colonizing for 250 years?
Seems to be what people do. America isn’t the first or the only one. People are shit is that your argument?
That’s actually a statistical error.
Most people are alright. Power-hungry individuals responsible for colonialism are outliers and should not have been counted (or allowed to reach/stay in positions of power)
“All people are colonizers. Those who aren’t colonizing aren’t people” - colonizer brain in action.
Power for things like colonizing is the best indicator of a successful state. End state power. I like that the original was intended as a slight against anarchists. States keep projecting that vertical energy.
Oh no! You’ve poked the liberal hive now LMBO
A lot of pro China on Lemmy lately, can we turn the propaganda down a bit.
Most people here were taught the same bs about China and we broke away from that by sitting down, reading and looking at the (lack of) evidence for everything they’re accused of. China isn’t perfect, none of us claim it is, it also isn’t at all what state department propaganda claims
A lot of pro Zionism lately especially out of .world, can we turn the zionazis down a bit.
You actually are experiencing the propaganda being turned down, it’s just that a fish doesn’t notice the water until it’s gone. The anti-China orthodoxy that is the default in western ruling class political thought is the astroturfed position, not the other way around.
Lemmygrad.ml is Marxist-Leninist, Lemmy.ml is the dev instance and the devs are MLs, so there’s a lot of overlap but nothing firm.
It literally isn’t.
.ml is the TLD for Mali.
Average .world zionazi comment LMBO!
