I’m still in the research phase of switching to Linux and don’t know if this concern is reasonable. I’m not tech savvy. I’m comfortable in the windows ecosystem and could use the dos prompt fine when they used it. I played with QBasic and C++ when I was younger and have built a few computers but that was a couple decades+ ago.

My concern is dealing with malware. I know that Linux has less issues with malware than Windows but, as I understand it, that’s primarily because it has a comparatively small market share. I feel like I’m getting into Linux just as it’s getting more popular and that it will get worse if the EU moves away from Microsoft because they will most likely adopt some form of Linux as their new standard. More less tech savvy people like me moving to Linux makes it a juicier target for people who create and use malicious software. It’s not a reason to stay with Windows but is it a reasonable concern? Are there sufficient tools for people who don’t really know what they’re doing to be reasonably secure on Linux and will they keep up if the threat profile expands as Linux picks up more users?

  • zxqwas@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Have you got any malware on windows lately?

    If you’re reasonably good at avoiding windows malware you’ll be fine on Linux.

  • IWW4@lemmy.zip
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    12 days ago

    Yes it is. You need Malware protection and you need to harden your computer. Do some research on that.

    • remedia@piefed.social
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      12 days ago

      Do you have any suggestions for where he might get started on the topic? I think that’s what he’s looking for.

  • DoubleDongle@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Linux has a long history of being significantly more secure than Windows as well as being a much smaller target. Linux malware might exist these days, but it’s rare at most.

  • ShellMonkey@piefed.socdojo.com
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    12 days ago

    Linux already runs a huge portion of the world’s servers, which are a more lucrative target for bad actors than an individual machine, so it’s solidly battle tested.

    • zxqwas@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      They also have reasonably tech savvy admins.

      The attack I see as a risk for someone with someone with “some skill” is copy pasting a command as root because someone on a forum said it would diagnose an issue they were having and installing a bitcoin miner on their computer.

      • tyrant@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        Unfortunately I could see myself doing something like that in a moment of frustration

      • skankhunt42@lemmy.ca
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        12 days ago

        Running curl piped to bash with sudo has become pretty common. Just run this one line to install software or repos+keys that are later used to install software. That along with most older articles starting with turning off SELinux make me sad.

        I think the most important part is to take your time and understand what you’re doing before you do it. Tech savvy admins can also be caught if they’re in a rush or just blindly trust AI without confirming the command is safe.

        • forestbeasts@pawb.social
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          11 days ago

          SELinux is also just a pain in the tail. We’re on Debian which has got AppArmor instead and while it has caused problems, it’s caused problems a heck of a lot less often than SELinux did when we tried Fedora.

          – Frost

  • HuntressHimbo@lemmy.zip
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    12 days ago

    Its definitely something to keep in your mind with any computer. What I will say to assure you, is that the tools you are used to using on Windows for protection have equivalents for Linux. ClamAV for antivirus, firewalls, and anti malware software are available in most distros repos.

    If you want to be more confident in your security knowledge on Linux, I recommend reading up on the basic permission systems for Linux. Make an isolated folder to explore chmod, chown, and Linux groups and see how accessing files with different permissions works. You can even look at SELinux (Security Enhanced Linux) for more of an idea of how kernel security can work.

    • Da Oeuf@slrpnk.net
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      11 days ago

      Permissions: check out the Concessio app (available from Flathub). Permissions are confusing for new Linux users and the app explains how they work and can generate them in numeric and symbolic formats for command line use.

  • Toes♀@ani.social
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    12 days ago

    Most Linux malware comes from community repos and fake GitHub style projects.

    The default package repositories in all the major distributions are safe. Some examples to be worried about are pip packages and the AUR if you’re using Arch.

    My first programming language was qbasic as well. Fond memories of that.

    Vet third party sources, just like you would have on windows.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      11 days ago

      Usually they’re safe. Safe enough that the average user doesn’t need to worry about it at least. Occasionally someone will take over as the maintainer of the package and add in malware. It’s pretty rare though and not a concern to the average user.

  • Agility0971@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Your concerns are valid.

    In my opinion the easiest solution, if you don’t know what youre doing (or dont wanna care) would be to use exclusively an immutable distro. That would lock you out of tweaking the system, but also heavily limit any potential malware. This should be sufficient imo:

    • keep system up to date
    • dont run programs or commands from unofficial channels
    • have firewall enabled and running
    • make offline backups of user files
    • use immutable distro
      • buttmasterflex@piefed.social
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        12 days ago

        Fedora Silverblue/Kinonite and Bazzite are the common ones I have heard about most as immutable options.

        I previously set up Kinonite on my wife’s laptop for her, as she doesn’t want to deal with any of the tech support stuff. By design, Kinonite is limited to installing programs as flatpaks without further tinkering/effort. It ultimately was a little too restrictive for what she wanted and had odd Bluetooth issues I was unable to sort out. I ended up putting the standard Fedora KDE spin on her laptop instead.

    • pheusie@programming.dev
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      9 days ago

      The way you present “immutable distros” make them look like state-of-the-art stateless systems (a la NixOS with the impermanence module).

      As much as I’d wish (so-called) immutable distros were like that, almost none of them actually are[1].

      Fedora Atomic, which may or may not have surpassed NixOS in popularity by now, practically just locks down /usr. That’s cute, but it means that the immutability doesn’t prevent persistence of hardware in most of the filesystem.

      Similarly, I could go over the other popular immutables to point out how their immutability doesn’t do much to combat persistence. But I digress…


      1. It’s basically the aforementioned NixOS. And, even then, only if you’ve set it up like that. Guix System might offer it as well, but I couldn’t verify it the last time I looked into it. ↩︎

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      This needs to be higher. It’s the first comment I came to that:

      1. recognized that security issues are always a concern and don’t just disappear with Linux
      2. recognized that low tech savvy was part of the question and
      3. gave a very practical and on-target suggestion for how to proceed (not just Team Linux rah-rah).
  • TheV2@programming.dev
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    12 days ago

    Great question and I think it is.

    Regarding tools, there is for example the ClamAV toolkit, which is easy to setup for the average Linux user, but probably not for the most vulnerable users that need these tools the most.

    But in general the biggest problem might be how we treat the biggest vulnerability - the user. With more freedom and control in Linux, we also have more responsibility. And I’d argue that welcoming new users with bad practices is getting overly normalized, e.g. executing commands/scripts that you don’t understand or depending too much on something like the Arch-user repository.

  • Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    12 days ago

    It’s simply not different than on Windows, arguably it’s much easier to stay secure. But if you managed it on Windows, the same applies on Linux: don’t run shit as administrator (root) and be suspicious if it wants to, backup your stuff, don’t install dodgy software.

  • netvor@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Lot of people will tell you something like “don’t run stuff aS rOoT” but from personal security POV root is almost irrelevant. Potential attacker can do plenty of damage without root.

    root only allows crossing boundaries of the current user, but for personal use, everything you care about is probably 100% accessible under your normal user account. You don’t need root to steal your photos and passwords, you don’t need root to shimmy a daemon in your ~/.profile to start every time you log in, you don’t need root to mine shitcoins, use your machine as part of botnet or whatnot.

    Good advice is to vet everything you install, or choose a third party to vet it for you. In ideal world,

    • choose a stable, well-maintained and up-toodate distro with a good reputation,
    • limit installing software from official sources only. …and you’re probably going to be fine.

    In less than ideal world, maybe add flatpak to the mix but assume that the repository is a wild west. Running AppImage apps or installing third-party .deb/.rpm/etc. packages, again, if you trust the source, you trust the source.

    (But for f’s sake, don’t just run curl | bash scripts (with sudo or not) from random github repos and stuff.)

  • HubertManne@piefed.social
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    12 days ago

    So I think a lot of things that are more important to security is perfectly doable in linux. I think there might be distros that don’t have a firewall on by default but I don’t think its common. If you go with most any recommended distros people throw out it will. Linux and other unixes had this available and default way before windows did. Honestly the only thing linux kinda lacks is antivirus although thats not completely so. I will say that outside of windows integrated antivirus I stopped using them in windows. Running a secure browser and being careful about what you download and run in windows is a much bigger thing for security. Again linux had sudo type things (the admin privleges window pops up with) than windows did. Which is a much bigger security thing. To top it all off you can get most software for linux through repos which are curated and safer way to get software. It can be tempting to download a piece of software not available but if you can add a credible repo its not a bad idea to do it that way. I mean linux and other unixes are just engineered in a better more secure manner. Coming from windows and worrying about linux security is like coming from a really cirme ridden neighborhood and moving a nice low crime area but your afraid its going to have more crime later.

  • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
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    12 days ago

    Others have addressed a lot of this - I think your best approach is to to use a structured learning process, like 30 Days of Linux. I’ll drop a link when I can find it again.

    I think the biggest risk for a new user is running commands as root that you don’t fully understand.

    Fortunately distros today default to creating a user account during setup so the average user doesn’t run as root by default.

  • vext01@feddit.uk
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    12 days ago

    I’ve been using Linux and Unix for about 25 years and I’ve never had a malware problem.

    I’m not saying they dont exist (they do), but malware for those systems seems much rarer.

  • cannedtuna@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Linux is very secure, or can be, but that depends on your threat model and how much you’re willing to do or put up with.

    The great thing about Linux is there tends to be a lot of solid documentation that explains what features are for and how to implement them. Links above are mostly to the Arch Wiki. Whatever distro you use, you’d want to start at their wiki. I’m currently using CachyOS, and I’ve found their wiki to be very helpful.

    Some other helpful features to look into are

    • btrfs snapshot support with GRUB or Limine bootloaders: easy snapshot rollback in case of a bad update
    • atomic distros like Bazzite: updates happen on a separate subvolume and don’t apply on reboot if they aren’t 100% successful
    • immutable distros like NixOS: core directories like /usr, /bin, /sbin, /lib, /lib64, /etc, /boot, /opt are read-only for higher security against malicious software
    • boeman@lemmy.world
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      11 days ago

      Add to this periodic CIS benchmark with OpenSCAP to diagnose any openings and certain types of vulnerabilities as you add additional software or make configuration changes. Hardening your OS is a tough task, but even with windows or macOS, you can run into vulnerabilities that are completely there from bad configuration or rouge software.

      Now that I have that out of the way, it doesn’t matter what OS you run, there will be vulnerabilities. Being diligent in updating your machine (both the os and installed software) will do a lot of good to keep your workstation safer.

  • Riskable@programming.dev
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    11 days ago

    One thing to think about with Linux—where I think you’re getting the wrong impression—there’s something like fifteen billion Linux installations globally. Compare that to Windows where there’s about 1.9 billion.

    Yet for some painfully obvious reason, Windows has about an order of magnitude more serious, actively exploited vulnerabilities than Linux. For every serious, actively exploited Linux vulnerability (which includes basically anything in the tens of thousands of packages + kernel that are available and ready to install in any Linux install), Windows has vastly more. And that’s just the stuff branded by Microsoft!

    There’s a whole lot of reasons why you’re much more secure in just about every way on a Linux install, but believe it or not, you know what the single most important factor is, that prevents malware from being much of a problem? Default permissions!

    It sounds silly, but whenever you download something on a Linux desktop you can’t just execute it. You have to take an extra step and mark that thing/malware as executable before you can run it. It’s a step where everyone stops to think, “hmm… Maybe I should double check this.” 😁

    This doesn’t stop the truly careless, of course. But it’s easily the biggest factor in preventing the sorts of “drive by malware” that people often get suckered into running.

    Contrast this with Windows where literally everything is executable by default. You can change a .txt to an .exe and BAM! Windows will now attempt to execute it when you double click on that file (that would throw an error, but you get the idea).

    • rodneylives@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      There are eight billion human beings in the world. I think you should break down that 15 billion number a bit.

          • CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world
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            10 days ago

            I don’t think it even needs to be smart in the sense of being networked (although all network equipment uses it too). Probably any type of fancy interface will just run Linux.

      • Riskable@programming.dev
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        10 days ago

        TVs, thermostats, “smart” anything, android phones, 3D printers, industrial equipment, routers, sensors (e.g. soil monitoring where there’s millions), and zillions more categories.

        Remember: Just about every “smart” device that’s connected to the Internet is running Linux and isn’t getting compromised anywhere near as often as embedded windows devices did (which is a big reason why companies stopped using embedded windows!). There’s vulnerabilities that crop up from time to time (e.g. cheap routers) but that problem can often be attributed to shitty practices on the part of the device manufacturer. Example: Using the same default credentials on every device, expecting the end user to change them.