Please provide more detail than “Trump is a twat” and “epstein distraction” cos that’s fucking obvious
Trump seizes control of the oil production in Venezuela, then attacks Iran causing them to block the strait of Hormuz and oil prices to skyrocket. Profit.
Trump and his staffers are desperately trying to find a way to TACO but still somehow claim victory like his other two expeditions in Venezuela and Iran (2025), because it clearly didn’t have the effect they thought it would have like when Bush II did it.
Unlike the US, Iranian forces had a plan that was formulated for years. Doesn’t mean things will go as they envision, due to US, Israeli, Gulf state, and internal factors putting a lot of uncertainty in the mix. Iran is okay with the current situation in the short term unlike the US, but there is elevated risk for a potential coup, an Israeli-style drawn out genocide and annexation, just a stalemate war of air defense attrition, or who knows what in Iran. There will be pressure from all sides to figure something amicable between the belligerents, hopefully sooner than later.
I predict: Oil/gas prices will stay high for months, air ship and truck transportation costs will be somewhat higher and goods will be a little higher for the same period. Over the next year, governments, businesses and people will turn to electricity and renewables pretty much out of necessity (look at Indian residents turning to Induction Stoves in droves) that will lower our needs for fuel which will hopefully offset the shock from future oil supply crunches. Optimistically, it could accelerate the world’s efforts to net zero.
There was the hope of an uprising from the Iranian people, but 30 thousand protestors killed, and now a response to this war, seems less likely at this point.
Two future timelines I currently see as possibilities:
- The US will pull back, mostly to support Israel and protect transport ships, occasionally firing long distant strikes. (an unlikely best case scenario)
Or
- A lingering war that will continue through to next presidential election, and used as an excuse to not leave the role as potus. (a more likely horrible scenario)
2 is my fear. He started jan 6th to try to stay he’s maybe thinking long term goals here. A lot of people would see a war as a good reason to keep him on. He really does friggten me
He took examples from Ukraine and Israel on how war can extend a presidency, so its to be expected at this point.
People should forget about trying to wait for a vote to change the leadership, and demand impeachment with countless legal reasons available.
So it’s very hard to illustrate all this in an online forum thread… So I’m gonna try and sort of simplify…
For a very long timeIsrael has been very concerned that Iran will develop nuclear weapons, as they should be.
Iran has been executing a proxy war against Israel for 50 years.
Part of that proxy war involves a number of different organizations, one of which is basically in control of Palestine.
The Obama administration negotiated a treaty with Iran that lifted a number of sanctions if they allowed international inspectors to prevent them from enriching uranium, which is a key step in creating nuclear weapons.
The Trump administration in partnership with Israel View that as an absolute disaster.
So they ended the agreement. Which basically opened the door for a Iran to enrich uranium.
Israel has been wanting to bomb Iranian nuclear production sites for decades.
All those sites are underground.
The only country with the ability to bomb shit underground and destroy it is the United States.
One of the most dynamic military leaders in the history of man was an Iranian general who organized and managed that broad coalition of different organizations against Israel. It really is a feat and how well he managed and did all that.
The US military killed him in an airstrike.
The US military has destroyed……. Well, bombed a number of the facilities that iran is enriching or uranium in.
The US military has also killed a number of the political leaders in Iran that’s what’s really messy.
You have to leave the guys alive to turn things off…. There’s no one left to turn things off
Hamas is an independent partner not a proxy.
One that only done so well because Israel propped them up to prevent a more moderate government from forming.
You forgot the bit where they’re trying to distract everyone from the Epstein files and the bit where they literally have no plan.
Yeah, as much as the Internet wants to believe otherwise I don’t think the Epstein Files are really all that important to anyone in any power.
You are correct. Nobody involved here has a plan. I mean Israel’s stated Objectiveis total victory yet Netanyahu’s Governmentcan’t articulate. What the hell that is…
You know very well Israel plan is to destroy Iran as a state so it can’t never function again and so that they accomplish the greater israel project
I don’t think the Epstein Files are really all that important to anyone in any power.
On the contrary - I think if Iran released any of the blackmail on trump that supposedly exists, things would take a wild turn.
However, I do concede this is likely an optimistic view
“Completely fake news, our specialists determined the footage is AI generated”
Don’t believe anything this guy say. Israel want to destroy Iran so it can create a greater israel with no resistance
Oh i apologize if my post paints isreal in a good light. There are no good guys here.
I am going out that at the top of my post.
Regardless of how bad iran is . It is Israel the settler colonial power who want to get rid of Iran to steal more land from Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan , Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Don’t waste your time with more dumb propaganda. Iran never planed to build nukes although maybe they will considered it now since israel want to create a failed state in Iran
The leader we just killed had issued a fatwa against nukes. Whether the new leader will see things the same way remains to be seen.
exactly
HOLY SHIT. That is much worse tham I thought, i groaned when I read about the inspector being overturned. How did he justify that? Thanks for explaining that I’ve saved the comment.
How the fuck can USA get out of this?
It is staggering what he gets away with.
How can all of us get out of this mess? I do not know, nor do i think anyone else does either.
Yep…
Trump issued a threat to Iran before negotiations started that he fully intended to carry out regardless. He then launched a series of missile attacks against Iran with the stated goal of regime change and the cooperation of Israel. Iran’s leadership was hit in the early bombings, but they had been preparing for an attack and launched counteroffensives against US bases all over the region, and closed a vital oil shipping route.
Trumps administration is unhinged and vile, so the early targets also included a girls school and many other civilian targets. Hegseth has been going on rants about how there will be no rules. Congress for their part, came together to fail at enacting a war powers resolution that would have made this ?more? Illegal. True bipartisanship in action. For their part many European states have followed suit, by either tacitly endorsing the war or simply refusing to note that the US and Israel are the obvious aggressors. Spain being a bright spot on that front.
Irans’s attacks have been expanding as the US keeps attacking. They seem focused on building pressure internationally to end the war, but are also hitting places that are supporting or housing US or Israeli troops.
For the why, its hard to say. This is a confluence of the entire US political classes obsession with provoking war in the middle east. Schumer, Graham, and the bipartisan warpigs are doing everything they can to justify the war or slow people trying to stop it. Trump for his part is barely there mentally, but has floated war with Iran as a solution to dire political numbers before. He also just seized a bunch of oil from Venezuela and might see the oil supply crisis as an opportunity to profit. There is no motive too low to consider tbh. Worth considering how much is really Trump and how much is Stephen Miller puppeting the gilded meat sack around.
Israels imperial ambitions are also not to be discounted and they’ve been pushing for this for ages.
Let’s not forget that Trump has been attacking Iran since his first term. In November 2018, he unilaterally reäpplied sanctions, violating the antinuclear treaty, despite Iran appearing to have been fulfilling their end of the bargain. As Britain and France desperately tried to get the treaty back on track, Trump had Qassem Solameini assassinated in early 2020. That would have been the biggest news of the year, and likely would have led to a full-on war with Iran, if we didn’t all have to go into lockdown a few months later.
People say this is a distraction from the Epstein files, but I doubt that is more than a minor factor. Trump has had it in for Iran for years. The far more likely conspiracy is that he wants a war so he can declare martial law and be president for life. Even so, what’s more likely is that Trump is doing fascist action for the sake of action.
Kushner took a 2 billion dollar bribe from the Saudis and Trump said it was fine since he wouldn’t be in his admin in his second term.
Kushner was one of the people Trump had negotiating with Iran right up to the breakout of the war.
UAE also forked over another 2 billi in crypto to WLF, which the Trump family hold major stakes in. And that’s on top of the 180 million they put into WLF around the 2nd inauguration.
What’s going on:
Israel and Iran:
- Israel has terrible relations with virtually every country in the world, and even worse relations with the countries nearby, one of those countries is Iran
- Iran is the only Shia Muslim country in the world (one where the majority of the population is Shia and the people in power are Shia)
- There are Shia minorities in many countries, and in some countries the Shia are a majority of the population, but don’t have power (Iraq used to be like this, not sure how it is now)
- Iran supports armed Shia groups outside Iran (Hamas in Palestine, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Houthis in Yemen, etc.)
- Sometimes these Iran-backed Shia groups act a bit like governments, sometimes like terrorist groups, often a combination of both.
- Israel shares borders with many countries with Iran-backed militias, so is constantly dealing with low-level conflict with groups linked to (financed by) Iran
- Iran (quite reasonably) thinks that the only way it will be safe from attack is if it has nuclear weapons, so it has been trying to develop them for years
- Israel (quite reasonably) doesn’t want Iran to have nuclear weapons, so has been trying to stop them for years, using spying, sabotage, and more recently, direct airstrikes
- Under Obama, a deal was reached where Iran agreed to stop work on nuclear weapons in exchange for sanctions relief
- Trump violated the terms of this treaty (as he has violated many other treaties) mainly because Obama signed it, and Trump has personal hatred for anything having to do with Obama
- With no deal in place, Iran went back to working (at least more openly) on nuclear weapons
Trump, Racists, and Evangelicals:
- The war against so-called “DEI” has meant any non-white person in an elevated position in the US government and military has been demoted or fired, and incompetent white person have replaced them
- DOGE meant eliminating “waste, fraud and abuse”, but mostly they eliminated anything they didn’t understand, which included soft power, Iran analysts, etc.
- Successfully kidnapping Maduro from Venezuela gave the Trump admin a false sense of confidence
- Israel has a powerful lobby in the US,
- Many evangelicals believe that we’re in the biblical endtimes, and that the rapture will happen soon. They want the jews to go back to Israel so Jesus can come back and kill them, then they get to go to heaven. Jews being in control of biblical places is a key element of their theory, so they support Israel because they want the world to end.
Israel’s latest attacks:
- Israel attacked Iran last year, and the US joined in, and they claimed this “obliterated” Iran’s nuclear program
- Despite this, the message is always that Iran is days or weeks away from a nuclear weapon, so both things are true: the Israeli/US strikes against Iran were a massive success and Iran’s program was obliterated, but Iran is still days or weeks away from developing a nuclear weapon
- The Trump admin was trying to negotiate a new treaty with Iran, but wasn’t making much progress because the negotiators were unqualified idiots: a real estate developer (Steve Witkoff) and Trump’s son in law (Jared Kushner)
- Israel saw another opportunity to take out targets in Iran recently, so they attacked, and the US felt the need to join in, despite being in the middle of negotiations
Hormuz
- Many countries in the middle east only have major ports inside the Persian Gulf, and no way to get goods in or out without passing by the Strait of Hormuz
- Getting into the gulf means getting past the Strait of Hormuz, which Iran can easily control, it’s only 50km coast-to-coast in some places
- Iran, at best, has non-hostile relationships with the rest of the Persian Gulf countries, so it doesn’t risk much by sinking any ship passing by in the Gulf
What’s Next:
- Who knows
- The US went into the conflict without a goal
- Israel went into it with goals (destroy the ability for Iran to finance militias on Israel’s border, force them to focus on issues back home), but achieving its goals might make things even worse for the US
- Iran is facing an existential threat, so it’s unlikely to back down, and it’s not really like the US can escalate without actually invading
- In any invasion, the US would be badly hurt, Iran has a population of almost 100 million, 660 thousand active military, and 350 thousand reserves
- Any invasion would also serve to have Iranians rally around their country
- Many Iranians (especially urban ones) hate the theocratic regime, but they’ve seen how after US “interventions” nearby countries have collapsed into chaos. Stability under a hated theocratic leader is much preferable to chaos, so they’re unlikely to rise up
- There are groups inside Iran who might fight (the Kurds for example), but they’ve been repeatedly burned by the US, over and over, going back decades, so they’re not going to take promises from the US seriously
👏👏👏👏👏
Perfect summary, and had a laugh from your description the Evangelicals goals
It would be funny if they weren’t actually trying to bring about the biblical end-times. Also, they don’t care at all about the future because they don’t believe that the future will exist, since we’re in endtimes.
They need to accept the rapture has already happened. All the good religious people have already ascended. This is why all of the religious people who are still here suck.
That would be nice. But, one common theme with religious people is that they always believe that they are going to heaven, but everyone else isn’t.
That’s a pretty solid answer - well done.
Really easy to understand info there thanks
Hamas is sunni
Interesting, I didn’t realize that. I thought all of the groups Iran supported were Shia.
Hamas is the exception. It is a branch of the muslim brotherhood
Most of this is solid, the only thing I question is the whole Iran was working on nuclear weapons.
Everything I’ve heard from non Trump sources was that they were not actively developing and were honoring the Obama deal.
Trump will lose the war with Iran ,one way or another
Next:
- Trump chickens out somehow. Makes another big missile salvo, puts together another video of it for his fans, then says he’s done
- Iran bides its time then retaliates against the US thru a proxy.
- US gets dragged into another long term war in the Middle East.
- US doesn’t have its shit together. Economy nosedives. Somehow Republicans blame that on Dems.
Thats really eaay to understand thanks. Can you give me an example of a proxy that might happen? And what outcome do you think is most likely?
Proxies: The govt of Iran was the opposite religious alignment of govt in either Afghanistan or Iraq. Iran’s army never attacked that country. But some other smaller groups got training / funds / weapons from Iran, because Iran knew they wanted to strike against the US-supported govts in that country
Similarly, if I didn’t like you, I could pay someone else to create sockpuppet accts to criticize you. I can say with a straight face that I never did anything to you personally. But I still got what I wanted.
The Mideast has too much oil for the US to not be involved in the area. So every 20-30 yrs the US bombs someone in the area to keep the oil flowing.
If you wanted another reason to electrify your car that’s one.
Israel wants to des stabilize Iran and become the uncontested regional power on the middle east towards their Great Israel goal.
Broadly speaking, the US is okay with invading Iran because Iran isn’t a US tributary and the Iranian state is unwilling to become a tributary because theocracy is incompatible with US tributary status (A king might swear fealty to an emperor, but god’s emissary can hardly submit to a heathen).
The primary objective of the US administration is to win the midterm elections. War has historically boosted Republican support under low-informations voters and centrists, and going by the standing ovation in Congress, Democrats are happy to go along with the narrative that this is a just war because they too support enforcing tributary status.
That takes care of the motive. The means is the US military-industrial complex. The opportunity comes in the form of the US breaking a nuclear non-proliferation treaty with Iran and then being outraged that Iran isn’t complying.
They could count on Iran not complying because Israel keeps attacking Iran (and its other neighbors), ensuring Iran will defend itself in a way that can be treated as offensive. Israel keeps attacking its neighbors because that is what the US pays them for and because their history of doing that means that if the US cut funding for unrendered services, many Israelis would have to flee to escape facing justice for their participation in genocide.
So that’s means, motive, and opportunity for the US attacking Iran. Now how will it go?
Firstly, the motive being elections means the US will keep the war going until at least after the midterms. Economic consequences of this can be spun as justifying Republican autarky. The biggest consequence would be oil shortages in most of the world. Countries with large domestic production and/or strategic reserves, including the US, Canada, China, Russia, and Venezuela, would be less affected or have their position strengthened (with Venezuela going along with the US because they now know what happens if they don’t).
In Iran, the US will keep bombing targets until it is satisfied ground resistance is sufficiently mollified, then move troops in to occupy. Given Iran’s geography and the theocratic nature of the current regime, it will likely be a phase of shattering state power followed by a phase of occupation and guerilla warfare.
The US will attempt to create safe zones from which the tributary government and military loyal to the US operate and grow in power, likely centered around urban areas, key infrastructure, and strategic resources. Given there is more support for regime change in Iran than in Afghanistan, the tributary government might attract enough loyal troops to slowly take over the fight against the loyalist guerillas and not collapse immediately when US support drops.
This invasion has bipartisan support so even the Trump administration being replaced would not stop it. I don’t know how long the Iranian state can resist, but as long as it does the blockade on the Strait of Hormuz will remain in place, and even after that guerillas will make that route unsafe. After that, getting the tributary government shipshape could take years or decades, on the long end probably getting cut off like Afghanistan.
Iran or its supporters may attempt asymmetric warfare. If the US government wants to, it could replicate 9/11 and its massive boost for Republican popularity by having a similar lack of curiosity about suspected upcoming attacks. There have been articles about a possible Iranian drone attack from a ship off the coast of California which could fail to be stopped. Similar attacks may occur on the rest of NATO, and slowly ebb as Iranian loyalist power diminishes.
The economic consequences of an oil shortage would naturally hit vulnerable targets hardest. Food delivery vehicles might not be able to afford a trip into remote rural areas during a famine, while Europe can rely on electrified modes of transport for day-to-day stuff and reserve oil for essential services.
Countries with more oil, such as Russia and the US, may take advantage of this situation. Ukraine is not looking so good.
At any time, the US could move on to the next crisis and either stretch itself thin or leave the Iranian tributary state without support in what would then be a civil war. Israel will continue its aggression until its funding gets cut and it collapses.
So it goes.
Think it’s time you watched Dr Strangelove
As for “what will happen next”, the USA seems to want a cease fire and Iran is tired of getting bombed randomly, so Iran is going to close the Strait of Hormuz until it can get a better deal that means something. Israel and the USA don’t seem to want to make that kind of deal.
So Iran is going to start a recession by restricting oil supply for the rest of the world to get the rest of the world to intervene or to get that agreement from the USA and Israel.
This will likely last until November, when the midterm election is supposed to happen. Trump wasn’t popular already. A recession caused by military action is going to get a lot of people pissed. That recession will likely pop the AI bubble, both due to a loss of market liquidity and increased energy prices fueling AI.
Don’t get my hopes up
My sense is that Trump is going for the “we’re at war and therefore it would be imprudent to have elections” argument. I agree that this will drag on, but I think it depends on if Trump is able to successfully pull off the first ever skipped election in US history.
I don’t think his supreme court would go that low to allow it, but…the chance that he succeeds is not 0%, which fucking sucks.
That’s my fear too. He wants as much power as possible. He started jan 6th to stay in power he’s easily capable of starting a war to stop an election. My fear is he’ll use war to stay on past his 2 terms
While it’s definitely still possible, I’m optimistic that the US doesn’t have a history of being forcibly silenced. While we may not be great at mass‑movement or general‑strike action on a national scale, or at least we are out of practice, we’re not used to being afraid of speaking our political beliefs and I don’t see that switching overnight.
In a nation like Russia, that kind of political submission to the state was seemingly drilled into people during the Soviet Union (really, through much of recent Russian history). No one runs into the street to take cell‑phone video of Russian thug troops rounding up political foes. They know that if they speak up, they’ll be alone, isolated, and face a bad fate. But in the US, we get outside and document. We know the names of Alex Pretti and Renee Good.
And consider hypothetical war support: there’s no way the political ruling class would survive if the US got into a meat‑grinder war like Russia’s in Ukraine, with millions of casualties. Vietnam almost broke the country, and there were only 58k deaths (not to belittle the number, but Russia has suffered around 1.2m in military losses in just four years).
I think Jan 6 was a wake‑up call that it’s not a joke and not crazy to think they would attempt (and could succeed with) a coup here. I 100% think Trump and co. will try again to stage a coup or fix themselves in power, but I don’t yet believe they’ll succeed.
Good points I agree
Iirc there’s a false flag on us soil coming
I will just leave my comment here as a little time stamp.
But yes, as a way to justify for actions from the US and distract the public.
why would they need a false flag? they’re shooting bombs already
To push the next control method
Make Americans angry enough to forget they are against this and Trump lied about “no new wars” and $20 / gallon gas
Iran refused to sell oil using US$ as currency and supplied Hamas with missiles to shoot at Israel. So they were a pain in the US’ and Israel’s ass.
When spies found out that Iran’s leadership would meet in a place that isn’t underground, and Iran’s ally Russia was kinda busy, the US saw a rare opportunity to decapitate the state. For political reasons they asked Israel to strike first.
That was about as much thought as went into the attack.
Iran struck out against every US and Israeli ally in range and closed the straight of Hormus in retaliation, which blocks 20% of global oil trade.No one in the world knows what happens next, which is kinda typical in wars.
I honestly don’t know if US was driving the ship on the decapitation strike. I think Netanyahu might have been the one who wanted to take the shot and Trump just saw it as a convenient distraction at a time when he desperately needs a distraction. Neither here nor there, really, because both are in it together. Maybe they both (Trump and Netanyahu) had their foot on the gas?
Yeah, that info is just a decision based on the political optics of how the joint operation was conducted (who should strike first). If Netanyahu wasn’t in Washington the week before, pressuring Trump to act, would Trump have opted to hold hands and go for it with Israel? I feel like this is what Netanyahu has been trying to get the US to help them do for years and years.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was at the White House last week pressing the administration to do what it must to derail Iran’s nuclear program, its ballistic missile infrastructure and its support for proxy militias in the region.
Like the kid that keeps asking dad for a PS5, but dad keeps saying no or offering lesser prizes. They finally asked on the right day, when dad was already in the mood to get that PS5, and dad said “fuck it, let’s go get it.” Luckily for Netanyahu, Epstein shit is being stirred and Trump has a nose for making distractions.
Iran has control of and does not appear to be giving up, control of the straight of Hormuz. Basically then entire global economy hinges on this one geographically and physically limiting body of water. Any even elementary student of strategy knows this, has known this, and anyone advising world powers would be well aware of the implications of attacking Iran as the Americans and Israelis have done. As far as impacts you will likely feel, in the nearest time frame, this is the most relevant. 20% of global trade goes though this passage. The majority of oil going to south east Asia, China, Japan, Australia passes through this straight.
Like, I don’t really think its valuable to conjecture whats going on behind the eyelids of the administration, but they clearly misunderstood how vulnerable they were in this regard. The US dollar is suspending through enforcement of the petro-dollar: That the GCC nations are captured in the sense that they must trade oil in dollars. The value of the USD as form of fiat is elevated because of this. The GCC nations are all entirely dependent on the straight of Hormuz for effectively all calories going to those countries. These nations simply do not exist without access to the straight. They are also coupled with the fact that for all practical purposes, all of their water is from desalination plants; plants much more easily targeted as Iran has been both a) targeting radar and detection instillation throughout the region, and b) wearing down interceptor stocks.
While Israel basically tricked America into starting this war, its truly been one of their regional goals for decades. However, both Israel and the US suffer from extreme hubris in relationship to their capabilities, its clear both parties have misunderstood the mindset of the Islamic Republic. Both parties (Israel and the US) are used to negotiating with parties that will do practically anything to deescalate the situation. Iran is not like this. As a point of analysis, Iran (I think rightfully) considers what Israel and the US are doing as a war of extermination, and they’ve seen from other regional examples (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon) what works and what doesn’t work with regards to resisting US/ Israeli hegemony. And we see them doing seems to be very informed by this. In-spite of the power imbalance, Iran has a clear path to victory here and the US has basically none. So long as Iran can keep the straight closed and keep GCC nations shook, the US has no path to victory through air control alone.
What will happen next is:
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Even if the straight were to open tomorrow, we’re looking at 3 months + of global disruption and we have recent historic precedent for this. See the Evergreen and the Suez canal. And that was with all parties cooperating to re-open the canal as soon as possible.
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Prices are going to skyrocket and inflation is going to go back to being at risk of spiraling out of control. This is going to be like covid, but also not like covid, in that we don’t have the buffer in interest rates we did had built in the pre-covid times. The US can not both lower rates and prevent inflation. Its not clear there is any path the US can take financially.
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Before the cold war, full blown wars would often last decades. The period of the cold-war and post-coldwar era are not reflective of how wars are fought historically. Modern war is focused on the doctrine of shock and awe: Dominate the air, use extremely impressive high tech weaponry, and forms of “omnipotent” systems (Wheres Daddy?, Satellite imagery, RF signature analysis ect). The shock-and-awe doctrine is to orchestrate the appearance of such dominance, the other party loses the narrative. However, with a few notable exceptions, this doctrine does not work against an opponent who is determined to resist (See Vietnam, Iraq one, Iraq two, Afghanistan, Hezbollah, etc…). The approach that the US and Israel are dependent upon has been repeatedly demonstrated to fail against a determined opponent. The US will lose this war.
Great write up!
This is probably the best comment here so far. To emphasize the interceptor missile point, the US yesterday pulled interceptor systems from South Korea. You know, the place next to the nuclear-armed country that likes to lob missiles into the ocean just to show off. It should go without saying how dire the situation is if the US is redeploying interceptors from South Korea. Once interceptor stocks are depleted, Iran will be able to consistently, successfully strike targets inside US allied territory. There are some rumblings that Iran’s success rate is already increasing. Once this happens, Iran has the US & Israel backed into a corner even more than they already do.
Oh fuck of course. It’s not just about oil reserves it’s about transportation of it. Thanks
You aren’t the first person, but can you please define your abbreviations no one who needs to read your post knows at all what GCC
For those who don’t know
Your correct and since this is no stupid questions, I should have defined that.
the point isn’t to “win.” the point is to be at war
While Israel basically tricked America into starting this war,
I’m happy with most of your analysis, but this bit bugs me. It seems like a lot of people are eager to avoid American agency when it comes to Trump and his actions - he’s dismissed as a literal agent of Putin, the Russians are blamed for having manipulated the electorate, Musk interfered with the election count directly, it’s all the billionaries’ fault. And now America was apparently “tricked” into killing the leaders of a government by that very government.
No, America owns this.
No. Trump is genuinely senile. Israel and its US cabinet puppets determined his decision without consultation of miltiary experts or GCC objections, or even any ally objections.
I’m not offering speculative analysis with this point. The administration made this point:
Rubio contradicting themselves on this point one day after making it
No, America owns this.
Sure, in an existential sense I agree, but what then? Like what do I do with that conclusion that furthers my understanding? as in if I were to take this form of reductive analysis to geopolitics, how does that impact my ability to predict future states of the world? I take something like this sentiment and I ask “does this sentiment add to my models capacity to predict or does it detract?”
I would say this form of reductionism drops my predictive capacity to practically nothing. I can’t make predictions of future states or back test previous states of the world effectively in that framework. Its a form of cliche or jingoism, which while emotionally satisfying, effectively halts critical thinking. Like it might be a more conscilient or parsimonious explanation, but parsimony and consilience are irrelevant if the models they are a being used to value aren’t predictive. What matters first in a model is predictive capacity. After that you can update other values. But if the first thing you value in a model isn’t predicative capacity in some manner, you aren’t operating in the real world, by definition. You’re valuing something other than a models ability to predict reality (simplicity of the model, or ones ability to understand the model, or how well the model rhymes with other things you think you know).
Like what do I do with that conclusion that furthers my understanding?
You miss my point. I’m not suggesting something to be done, that’s out of scope of my objection. I’m saying what you should stop doing. Stop portraying America as the poor innocent victim of those duplicitous Israelis. America should know better.
I’m saying what you should stop doing.
No, I don’t think that I do. I’m countering that I think what you offer has no real value, doesn’t contributes to understanding and by following that frame work, you feed into the outcomes you allege to be against.
Its not only worthless, its actually less than worthless, because by adopting that framework, you actually cut against your own alleged goals.
Its a reactionary mentality embedded in emotionalism. Just like the those who like to blame voters for the results of 2024 or the people who blame consumers for the failures of recycling in the 1990’s, but can’t offer a functional mechanism for how blaming those parties to the system would contribute to different outcomes.
Israel absolutely tricked the US into this engagement, which most analysts have known was something Israel has wanted for decades. America as a state is utterly cuckolded to Israel for the purposes of this engagement. They aren’t in control of their own foreign policy. Just and just as well, a vocal majority of EU states are cuckolded to the US and seem to be getting dragged in as well, to greater or lessor extents, with few exceptions (Spain, Ireland, Norway). Do they not have agency? Or is agency the wrong way to think about these things if you want a predictive framework that is effective at capturing previous and future states?
Israel absolutely tricked the US into this engagement, which most analysts have known was something Israel has wanted for decades.
If most analysts knew it, then how did Israel trick them?
America as a state is utterly cuckolded to Israel for the purposes of this engagement. They aren’t in control of their own foreign policy.
How? Is America not a big, powerful country, with politicians that serve its own interests? You’re saying it’s some kind of satellite, a vassal state, of Big Bad Puppetmaster Israel? America couldn’t have said “no”?
No, this is a worthless analysis. This is completely disregarding America’s own agency here, its own motives. America did this. America wanted this. And this attempt to place the blame anywhere but where it belongs is, frankly, pathetic. It’s no better than Trump himself scrambling to find anyone he can to blame for his own failures and problems.
Just and just as well, a vocal majority of EU states are cuckolded to the US and seem to be getting dragged in as well, to greater or lessor extents, with few exceptions (Spain, Ireland, Norway). Do they not have agency?
I have yet to see any of those EU states get dragged in. Even the UK, widely considered an American lapdog, has managed to keep fairly clean so far.
But if perchance one of them does turn completely stupid and get involved then be that on their heads. They will be responsible for their own actions and they will deserve the consequences. It’ll be nobody else’s fault but their own.
If most analysts knew it, then how did Israel trick them?
Most analysts/woken people knew that Israel wants Iran destruction for its own sake, does not mean that no Israel agents are in government and incapable of manipulating toddler in chief towards the goal.
You’re saying it’s some kind of satellite, a vassal state, of Big Bad Puppetmaster Israel?
Yes. 99% of politicians swear a loyalty oath to Israel. Most election money is from Israel, and all of the other election money just agrees with team Israel to make it easier.
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