Tommy Siegel | Bluesky
Transcript
A Helpful Guide To Star Wars vs Star Trek
Star Wars
[Image of Han Solo in Tommy’s style]
- Don’t start with the ‘first’ movie, let me tell you where to start
- Looks like ruined farm equipment in space
- In summary: the past was horrible
- JJ Abrams ruined it
Star Trek
[Image of Jean Luc Picard in Tommy’s style]
- Don’t start with the first season, let me tell you where to start
- Looks like a cruise ship in space
- In summary: the future is incredible
- JJ Abrams ruined it
Pray tell what is the best season to start?
I only discovered star Trek due to ds9 shorts which got me into the rabbit hole
I’d start with TNG for sure. It sets up a lot for future series.
DS9 is fantastic, but you’d lose out on a lot of plot lines with out TNG
Verily.
The only good Star Wars that has dropped recently has been Zero Company.
And before that, “Andor”.
The Sequels aren’t bad, it’s just always been popular to hate on the new Star Wars thing, has been since Empire.
If they aren’t “bad”, they’re at best “okay.” And that’s disappointing after a long hiatus in movies that had been filled with a shared universe (with its own peaks and troughs) full of interesting and pretty-much accepted expansions to the lore.
And, this is entirely unsubstantiated, but I feel like much of the design of the new story was shaped by trying to skirt around copyright/“inspiration” issues by avoiding even ideas from the old expanded universe. Basically constructing a story around what was left in a “legally safe concepts” bucket.
JJ abrams is responsible for what nutrek is today, all flash and no substance that KURTZMAN happily copied.
pre-disney star wars decent, but not after disney bought the franchise, and turned it intoa slop machine, and its basically just drama in space at least for the current ones.
Soooo many great franchises got turned into slop machines with no soul and the writing of a ninth grader.
true, SG1 almost become another slopbox, good thing the showrunners dint budge on what the exects wanted for the show, which was 'broader audience"
JJ Abrams
I think you mean Jar Jar AbramsAbsolutely start with the first season of Star Trek! What the fuck kind of nonsense is that? The original series is a gods damned masterpiece! Except for I, Mudd, just skip that one, it sucks.
tng first season was awkward, trying to find its legs.
It was also mostly made up of leftover stories that didn’t make it into the original series.
The worst episode of TOS is the one with the planet of children where Kirk puts the rizz on a little tweenage girl. I think it’s called Miri. Skip that one.
Oh yeah, I completely blocked that one out. That one is disgusting, definitely a skip.
I think that was about TNG? People often say start when Riker gets his beard and then go back later if you like it.
I can agree on that.
TOS is what got me watching almost all of Star Trek in the last 3 years. It was the damn star trek memes on lemmy (when there used to be a lot less content) that made me check it out, and I got hooked. I love me some sci-fi, what can I say
i started with TNG, i assume most of us did, but i dont watch the older ones except some of the important clips.
I can hear it now…
HarCOURT!
No.
I actually kinda like that Abram’s Star Trek takes place in an alternate universe. In that way, it hasn’t ruined anything. None of his movies are in the Prime universe.
But they did blow up Romulus in the Prime Universe and give us Picard.
And I like that Disney doesn’t have mind control drugs (yet?) so I can just consider their shit a seperate universe that Luke hallucinated after banging his head too hard on one of those doors designed more for looking like a cool sci fi door and less for being easy to go through without banging your head.
Disney ruined Star Wars.
Should’ve just used the Thrawn Trilogy as Episodes VII through IX. But that would’ve eventually lead to
spoiler
Chewie dying on Sernpidal
and think how much that would’ve hurt merchandise sales…
That and they would have had to pay the author to use it. That’s the whole reason they de-canoned the books in the first place.
I still believe that they should wipe the last three as “legacy” or whatever the fuck they call the old cannon and go full send with the Thrawn Trilogy.
I agree, but I can’t see it happening until they’ve milked this “timeline” dry.
Are Chewie toys still top sellers?
I don’t know, but his death was the primary reason they killed the Expanded Universe. The merchandise aspect is my cynic interpretation, because the stated non-reason why it’d be a problem makes zero sense.
The real reason was they wanted to go a different direction and shed the EU baggage (and potential royalties) while reimagining the stuff they liked (like Thrawn).
Why couldn’t Picard train his replicator to give him the right kind of tea when he just said “tea”, instead of having to say “Tea, Earl Grey, hot” every time? It obviously knew already what “hot” means.
Also, I happen to know that Riker peed a little every time Picard said “Fire at will”.
The “hot” part was not in in the script. Patrick Steward added it because the tea on set was notoriously cold.
Ohh, this comment section is gonna be good. 🍿
Aren’t you going to argue firefly is better than then both?
Start with the first season.
Yeah but is that first season of TOS, or just skip to first season of TNG
I mean TNG, which establishes the modern lore. Ive actually never watched all of TOS.
I’ll die on this hill. JJ Abrams didn’t ruin Star Wars. He just didn’t do anything NEW with Star Wars. Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars. He was unwilling to yes-and ANY of the mystery boxes and plot threads Abrams set up in The Force Awakens and essentially ruined the entire trilogy by burning any plot that could have happened in the third film.
If nothing else, the complete disrespect to Finn’s implied arc was unforgivable. That boy was going to be a Jedi.
J. J. Abrams established that Star Wars was just a repeating formula rather than a developing story, which would be bad enough, but in order to make the formula repeat he also made it canon that everything that happened in the original trilogy was ultimately meaningless.
He did write and directed it but he was still under Kathleen’s watch. She has admitted they had no overall vision for the trilogy and just winged it.
personally, I think Rise of Skywalker is the weakest of the three.
Totally Agree, I just blame The Last Jedi for that.
Edit:
aaaand. I also blame the fandom.
Rose was part of the story by the end of The Last Jedi. Whatever opinions fans had about her sudden appearance I take personal offense that Disney caved and relegated her to the shadows for Rise of a Skywalker, replacing her with another love interest for Finn. That’s just bad story telling and kinda spineless. The character and the actor deserved better.
That added to the narrative whiplash and tone shift in the trilogy and it 100% didn’t have to be that way. It was capitulation and it further hurt a narrative that was already hurting from all the twists of the previous movie.
If nothing else, the complete disrespect to Finn’s implied arc was unforgivable. That boy was going to be a Jedi.
I must’ve watched all the wrong trailers because I didn’t even know Rey was going to be a character.
Based on what I saw, I thought “The Force Awakens” was going to be about a disillusioned Storm Trooper who “awakens” as the new Jedi to save the galaxy. Would have been an amazing story of redemption. Instead we got… Well… You know.
I kinda respected that they were hiding who the new Jedi was in the marketing. They kept it enough of a secret theult didn’t have many Rey toys ready to go. They did the same thing with Grogu in The Mandalorian.
I’ll criticize Disney for a lot of things, but they do actually seem to allow some of their filmmakers to make artistic decisions that have negative impacts on potential merch sales.
I’d watch that movie.
The Force Awakens was crap but it tended to get the benefit of the doubt because there were all these mysterious threads that might be going somewhere interesting. But the problem is, JJ Abrams had no clue about where he was going with any of it. That’s unforgivable. You need some idea of the story you want to tell. Or just hire a fucking writer ffs. Plenty of people know how to tell a story, JJ Abrams just isn’t one of them. I don’t want to let Rian Johnson off the hook but it was already on a bad trajectory before he crashed it into the ground.
He’s literally been quoted as saying he didn’t realize that the MAIN LINE STAR WARS FILM was going to be PART OF A TRILOGY.
They needed a show runner. Someone there who at least knew the gist of the whole story and had the authority to override director egos.
Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars.
Every once in a while I see a post about what a brilliant director this guy really is and that I oughta give his other movies a chance and I think maybe I should try them… but then I think: No. Some things are unforgivable.
What potential answer to the mystery box of “Luke has hidden himself and completely cut himself off from the force” is there other than self exile? Rian Johnson didn’t ruin anything, there’s just no satisfying answer to such a question. If you dislike the answer, it’s because the question is bad to begin with. Abrams set that up.
I would ask you to consider why Yoda did the same? beyond the obvious of Palatine trying to kill him? Wasn’t Kylo/Snoke trying to do the same to Luke? Yoda was camped on a dark side nexus or something IIRC from the various sources.
but self exile doesn’t need to mean surly and in video game media we have seen Luke running around doing a bunch of stuff outside of the eyes of the new republic. What reason could obi-wan have for letting vader kill him? fans ask in the 70s after leaving the theater.
It’s not about it being a self exile. It’s about the portrayal of his personality and beliefs in that exile.
Yoda was a failed Jedi. Luke succeeded in RotJ by going against his and Obi-Wan’s teachings by attempting to redeem Vader rather than just killing him. Luke’s whole character arc was about finding a new path rather than repeating the mistakes of the previous generation.
Every example of a Jedi Luke has had is a Jedi that put themselves into self exile.
Neither ruined Star Wars. That honor goes to George Lucas and Episode 1.
Yes. It’s weird how much people on the Internet seem to revere the prequels. They’re terrible. Awful dialog, ridiculous plot contrivances, de-mystifying the force, turning Yoda into some kind of Tasmanian Devil, etc. etc. etc.
The sequels were just beating a dead horse.
The prequels were coarse and rough and they got everywhere :(
As individual movies, the prequels certainly had their flaws, but they left the universe in a more interesting state than it was in previously. Abrams turned Star Wars into just another soulless Hollywood sequel factory.
George made Midichlorians and turned the force into something in which you needed to be born gifted, rather than something you could aspire to.
He turned Boba Fett into just another clone and Darth Vader into an angsty teen.
He created a world where everyone forgot about the Jedi in 16 years to the point where Han thinks of it as a hokey religion when as a kid he would have seen the propaganda of the Republic’s main generals being Jedi and then them “betraying” the Republic during order 66.
The sequels might not be good, but let’s not pretend the prequels were better just because you grew up with them.
I can’t argue the quality of the prequels with indifference. I was too young when they dropped to hate them. I will say that they aren’t really that great and episode III is good because I watched the Clone Wars. The prequels weren’t great, but the sequels where essentially sabotaged by a proud director.
I will admit that Genndy Tartikovsky’s Clone Wars show is perhaps the greatest piece of Star Wars media to ever exist, but as far as the movies go the prequels were overall sabotaged by an auteur’s pride and him being in a position where no one could tell him “No”.
Making Finn a Jedi just because he had misgivings about being a Stormtrooper, and held a lightsaber once?
Because his touching the force woke him form his programing. Kylo sensed it. I didn’t say he was going to be a good Jedi. but his competency was on par with Kylo in a way that Rey was not. Rey was outshining both of them. Her whole deal was set to be that she had raw power but didn’t want to play either side.
There is a general rule in film making and story telling. You don’t do something without purpose. Finn holding the lightsaber was signalling, yes. It was narrative foreshadowing. checkov’s gun given weight by the promotions for the movie which had Finn holding the lightsaber. Rey was going to have her own light saber, maybe even a saber staff.
I swear people just don’t have media literacy anymore.
You don’t do something without purpose.
there’s one of the most analyzed moments ever, because there was no reason.
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homie, luke was a moisture farmer who shot rats and talked to a hobo.
I guess I’m one if the relative few that really enjoyed the new ST universe movies. They’re fun, well cast action films. Are they true to “morality tale” Trek? No. And I’m kinda tired of every director/writer trying to make Spock a chick magnet that can barely control himself.
As far as SW goes, there are very few good movies. The OG ANH and ESB, but RotJ is meh. 1-3 suck, world class actors and wooden AF, bad story writng even if it does flesh out the pre OG3 universe in movie-land. Same for the new Skywalker series. However, Andor and Rogue One are amazing, and I’ve enjoyed a bit of the hit-or-miss Mandalorian series.
Not hating on Abrams, but he’s like hiring Harrison Ford or Chalamet for a part. You’re getting the actor, not the character, Abrams is gonna do what he does.
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