Thank you for the added context :)
I hadn’t heard of it myself, so I thought it prudent after reading the Wikipedia.
Definitely the right move! My entire news feed is full of this particular case, but that’s not true for everyone. I appreciate it!
Missing context.
not sure what context this is supposed to add
The rapists.
and that context was missing before?
There it is, thank you JoMiran!
This is one of those comics where I have no clue what’s actually going on and who Jane Doe is and subsequently want to look it up but then realise that I really don’t need that information in my life, it’s probably a harrowing and dreadful story. I’m gonna enjoy my blissful ignorance and listen to ride the cyclone instead.
If you do decide to looks it up, the reach term to find stories about this event is below
Tap for spoiler
Cornell 7. In 2024, A group of 7 frat fuck sticks gang raped a woman for 7 hours. Their only punishment was to write an essay. Cornell swept it under the rug.
Is this the one where she admited to consenting to everything but still claims it was rape because she was drunk and regretted it later?
Just so you know where the downvotes and hate are coming from; and for anyone else who doesn’t understand either: “consenting while drunk” is not consent. There’s no ‘regret it later’, since there wasn’t consent - it’s more like ‘feel regret after becoming aware of it’, but even regret is the wrong word. disgusted, violated, furious.
I don’t have immediate access to the evidence, but my understanding is that these men and/or their accomplices intentionally got this woman too drunk to resist. She was unable to competently say yes, but she was also unable to competently say no.
If you think of this and other rape cases stemming from ‘they were drunk and regretted it later’ situations as the fault of the drunk person, please go educate yourself about consent and why being intoxicated precludes it.
I don’t have immediate access to the evidence, but my understanding is that these men and/or their accomplices intentionally got this woman too drunk to resist. She was unable to competently say yes, but she was also unable to competently say no.
Close, they were feeding her ketamine.
That suggests they weren’t also drunk and high on ketamine. In her very own story, she had to push a passed out dude off of her because he couldn’t get it up, and they replaced him with another dude. Isn’t that dude the most raped of all here?
As the public, we’re getting a bunch of fragmented information. At first, her statement made it look genuinely like it was consensual (slash everyone was drunk and high), then there’s maybe some stuff redacted from the statement? In the end it’s going to probably be some “middle ground/nuanced” thing, yet again.
Both are true. They got her drunk before the first two guys, then after the text inviting the rest of the frat to rape her was sent out, another guy forced her to take ketamine off of his dick.
I don’t know for sure what the facts here were. If she was unable to say yes/no than that is obviously rape. My understanding was that she was able to and did say no to some things (which the guys then did not do) and agreed to others. According to her own statement to the police, which seemed trustworthy to me. If that is what happened, I don’t see how it was rape. If something else happened, than it could be rape.
No!
I am not one of the people who say you can’t possibly give consent while under the influence BUT everyone has the obligation to NOT DO anything to a person that they might not like.
If you fuck a drunk person and than that person says you raped them you did not make sure they were able to really consent.
For this specific case you don’t seem to have the empathy to understand, a person who is so drunk that they were not able to consent in the first place than them saying yes or no to specific acts has like no meaning at all.
If you have ever been blackout drunk you should be able to imagine that saying no or yes really loses all meaning in that situation.
Your logic fails miserably on the fact the the guys were drunk too. If your logic applies, she also raped them.
And no, I was never black out drunk in my life and have no sympathy for someone who knowingly takes mind altering drugs and then complaines they did things with altered mind they regret.
No, you’re ignoring the “and then that person says you raped them part.” There’s no indication from before, during, or after they raped her that she coerced the men into something they didn’t want.
she didn’t call her friends in to have sex with those guys for hours on end. they did. they weren’t high and dunk enough to fail to call in several other men to have sex with her. there’s also a legal different between choosing to do something and lacking the ability to stop other from doing something to you. again, she didn’t call in more men to fuck the guys she was using with for hours on end. I bet if she did, you’d be singing a differently tune, because logically you don’t fight for maximum victim blaming when you’re not REALLY upset women might be treated with respect a little. I hope your garbage behavior is a lack of life experience and you learn to stop being this way, if not, let’s see that rap sheet!!
I genuinely need people to explain to me how if a bunch of drunk and high PEOPLE fuck EACH OTHER, it’s only the woman that’s raped, and only the men that are responsible for any drunk actions.
Sex is something, in general, that you do together. Why the hell do you expect a bunch of smart judgement calls from men, but not from the woman? Unless, of course, you subscribe to the patriarchal norms that no woman could ever like “just sex”, and that sex is always something men “inflict” on women.
she wasn’t sober enough to text 9 plus of her guy friends to come in and run on train on those guys who were using with her. They were, because they did just that.
I was pretty wild in my 20s, I went to a lot of parties with a lot of drugs and alcohol and naked people, and things happened, but somehow I never raped anyone. if someone slapped me away, seemed AT ALL annoyed, I moved on, and I certainly didn’t find someone high and horny and responded by texting 9 of my guy friends to come in and fuck them, explicitly stating that they didn’t need to even try to check if it was OK and just go ahead and whip it out, that sounds like rape from every angle I can think of. I remember at that age a friend telling me a horror story about a girlfriend of hers showing up high to have consenting sex at a place and then being raped by multiple men. it’s not about who’s high and who’s a woman and after the fact deciding what it was, it was rape when she got too high to decide, and it kept being rape when they kept calling in more and more men FOR HOURS to keep raping her. if a friend of mine texted me and says ‘hay this girl is real high and do you want to come in here and fuck her, she’ll be fine with it’ I’ll go ahead and not do that. and block them. what the fuck. that’s clearly wrong on so many levels, even anonymous group sex and consensual non consent have more levels of not rape than that. this isn’t even the first time a woman has stated they were OK with several men having sex with them and then it went too far and she had no way of stopping the situation and then after hours of being in that situation she felt it was pretty clearly rape from the men’s point of view as well. if you’re involved in group sex and you don’t know what stop means or what ‘I’m tired’ or a deep sigh of not into this anymore means, or what a safeword is for, or you don’t know where their limits are, and you’ve never heard of aftercare, you aren’t kinky, you’re a fucking rapist. this ISN’T how people who do drugs and have group sex operate, everyone has limits, some people AREN’T into pain, you don’t just decide once the ball is rolling, you have to have communication and a clear way out for everyone at any second, and even a little resistance or annoyance should be significantly noticed and responded to. I managed to do this when I was high and drunk. it’s not hard, you just don’t rape people
The police did a poor investigation including not seizing phones, and her statement is lacking detail. As per her statement there’s big memory gaps… you don’t know that she was conscious the entire time. There’s also the snapchat offering her as “free pussy” which even the men haven’t said she agreed to. There’s multiple men, she was outnumbered and heavily under the influence… Consent has to be freely given
you don’t know that she was conscious the entire time.
I don’t. I never claimed I do. But I also don’t tend to say people are criminals based on things that could have happened but I don’t know if happened. I made it clear what facts I was assuming.
There’s also the snapchat offering her as “free pussy” which even the men haven’t said she agreed to.
I didn’t read about this. If there were explicit images of her taken or distributed without consent, that is a crime. Not rape, but a reprehensible crime that they should be imprisoned for.
There’s multiple men, she was outnumbered and heavily under the influence…
The first doesn’t matter (criminally speaking, not making moral judgments here), the second only if she wasn’t able to give consent.
Consent has to be freely given
Yes. But any coercion must actually exist, not just be in your head.
Now I wasn’t there, I don’t know if there was coercion or she passed out or anything else. But I saw nothing so far that would make me believe they raped her, even in the parts of her statement that were released. People should be presumed innocent unless proven guilty and here even the accusers statement doesn’t seem to hold much, let alone any independent evidence.
Do the gaps not raise a concern for you? And even the men don’t say she wanted the snapchat message sent, showing she didn’t consent to being offered. Abd I disagree that multiple men being in the room doesn’t matter, as it creates fear/intimidation.
That’s not a good article on alcohol and consent. This is not true. Here’s a better write up on the subject.
https://bwell.brown.edu/resource/substances-and-consent
Kind of harmful to spread honestly. This is the kind of misinformation that showed up in consent talks 10-15 years ago. It really should be treated with the nuance the subject deserves so people are properly educated.
I apologize. I’m no expert on the topic, but an ally. I’ll read the link and improve my understanding.
Have you ever considered not being a piece of shit?
no
Consented
Drunk
Drunk people can’t consent, dipshit.
Edit: And that’s before mentioning she was given high amount of other substances that she was not used to.
Insane take. For one, drunk is giant fucking spectrum. But more importantly, SO WERE THE MEN!!! The only reason you people don’t care is because you haven’t deconstructed the patriarchy in your mind. Sex to you is still something a woman would never really want, and that men inflict upon a woman.
she didn’t call in other men to have sex with those men she used with, she didn’t tell them to keep having sex with her for hours on end. that’s a key element here your victim blaming logic is missing, maybe stop.
If you are in a mind altered state then you can’t concentrate to shit.
Let’s put it this way, would anyone allow you to sign a contract for a load or house if you were drunk. No they wouldn’t.
No one will let you out of a contract because you took one or two shots prior. Unless you are unconciouss or visibly don’t understand what is happening, consent is consent. Or did she also rape the guys since they were drinking as well, also unable to consent? From what I read, she was neither passed out nor passive.
If they actually spiked her drink, she was passed out, or anything else of the kind, that’s of course rape.
Drunk is big fucking spectrum. She was definitely not blackout drunk. Most importantly, all the goddamn men were drunk and high too!! Did she rape them? Or is sex something a woman could never want, something men inflict upon women?
Stop equating rape and sex.
Jane Doe is the title of the chainsaw man movie ending theme and thats all I need to know about that. Banger song and movie tho
Why is this getting down votes, the song IS good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLqsLsooJY
Probably because they kinda said they didn’t care about the rape.
There’s a ton of bad shit going on in the world, and I can’t affect 99.999% of it directly. My empathy battery is fucking dry at this point and while I do know about this situation, I know there are hundreds if not thousands of others I don’t know about.
For my mental health, I could imagine limiting my exposure to additional horrific things if I could.
Every time something like this hits national news, I use it to send my state leadership another request asking them to make a new category in the statute renaming ‘sexual battery’ (paraphrased, sexual contact without consent) to ‘rape’ if there is intoxication involved.
Right now my state is [misdemenor]no consent => [felony]underage; active-no; active-no with violence.
I want a felony non-consent with intox, and I want the law to have very limited requirements for the victim to prove intoxication, since it might be days or even months later that the victim is able to speak up.
Huh I Didn’t say that and didn’t notice you could read it like that. I meant I dont need to know more. I know a reference and that reference has a tragic backstory to it and I don’t want to traumatize myself by knowing the actual backstory. Thank you for telling me
thats all I need to know about that.
Yeah it was this little detail that reads that way.
By all means, avoid the details as needed for your own mental health. I really understand that reaction. As long as it isn’t in a dismissive way of course.
Jane Doe is a pseudonym used to represent the (female) victim in court documents when the victim’s identity and/or privacy shall be protected.
Aahhh, so that’s why the name seems familiar even though there’s nothing in particular I associate with it (except for ride the cyclone), thanks!
Wait, you’re not traumatised by my response? g https://lemmy.world/post/52932971/26261891
you’re welcome!
AAAAHH SOME HELPFUL AND VERY NON-SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT AN IMPORTANT DETAIL TO THE CONVERSATION HOW WILL I EVER RECOVER
:)
Ah, giving details about a horrific thing to someone that explicitly said they did not want detail about the horrific thing. Internet, ever so helpful.
Explaining that it is not a real name is arguably reducing the level of detail that they thought they knew.
They came into the thread. They commented on the thread. They are not the only person in this thread. To think that the thread should come to a complete halt because one person who willingly participated said they don’t like the topic is asinine. But at least you and I both got to do what we love: complain pointlessly.
Welcome to the reality of many people who simply can’t escape this topic like you can.
If providing a definition for a general expression to someone who mistook it for a name is “giving details about a horrific thing” to you, then that’s definitely a you-problem.
The person youre being outraged for found the comment helpful… This is fkn stupid 😂
If you’re a woman, more power to you.
If you’re a man, get reading. You don’t get to sit this one out.
I hope whoever started this censorship fad falls into a meat grinder feet first. Stupidest bullshit ever.
I think it’s also because some people are extra bothered by setting the full word without some attempt to mark it. Really if this was like the rest of the fediverse there would be a CW on it. And please don’t quote Louis CK at me.
Those people should just suck it the fuck up. It’s a goddamned word. Marking it or making the letting look off to get around moderation highlights the word if anything. It’s stupid crybaby bullshit.
Alternatively, we live in a society.
I don’t mind accommodating sensitive crybabies if that’s all it takes. But everyone gets their own space so it’s chill.
Algorithms, investors, capitalism…
Don’t forget ad companies, and probably Mastercard and Visa.
Enshittification too. There was a time on the Internet when you could say rape and suicide and kill. Then shareholder capitalism arrived and said actually these words decrease shareholder value by 0.001% and we can’t let that happen anymore
its about megyn kelly how she justifed her SA/SH WAS different.
A is assault. What’s H?
Probably harassment
Right? Isn’t self-censorship super fucking annoying?
Well, I understand censoring S*x or sex, but assault and harassment shouldn’t be. Not everyone can understand acronyms
Harassment
I always understood SH as an acronym for self harm
In this context Sexual Harassment seems more likely, but that’s the problem with censorship, you can never be sure what the person using it was trying to say, or if they were even actually trying to say anything to start with.
Sexual Assault. Sexual Harassment. Rape.
For fuck sake, people censoring words to skirt ‘the algorithm’ so their ‘post is higher’ isn’t helping. Making people have to ‘decode’ voluntarily-censored words impedes vital attention to - and discussion of - a horrible subject and hideous act that needs to be dragged into the light, kicking and screaming. Censoring these subject seems like obfuscation, and these loathsome acts should never be hidden. People who perpetrate such crimes thrive in darkness, when all they deserve is shame, ostracision, and long prison sentences.
using abbreviations in comments is fine, it’s just like any other shortened term
the censoring in the post is dumb, though
Using SA is pretty normal to tone down the horrible implications of the word. It’s not censorship in the algo sense, but it’s instead to lessen the impact the word can have on victims of it.
Fair point.
iDK what the the lady in the comic and her friends did in their past, but this Cornell case is pretty blatant. To start with, the idea of fraternities is very stupid from an outsider point of view, rich kids having eavn other’s backs is not a good idea, with their family and personal connections. Very American stuff. Then the drugs, which bear death and blood, Americans just can’t grasp it, how their recreation and fun implies violence and dead against the poor, which is commonly a racist activity.
Then the rape does not come as a surprise. Drugs and a life of privileges and a sordid education about blessed individuality. A girl gets kettamined, all alone in one of this houses. It may have some nuance in the sense of consent, but it is clear someone drugged her with a criminal intention. Probably all of them knew.
But this comic is very problematic because it’s not clear what happened to that lady in her past. Was she gangbanged under ketamine with her friends by seven frat boys? In topics like rape, you don’t just assume things lightly.
not clear what happened to that lady in her past.
Sexually assaulted without consequences within a social culture that condones it.
Sure, but I don’t think the American society really condones the Cornell U situation. I mean, even if they elected a sexual predator, it was a close election.
Wow, that’s a powerful one.
This is…so fucked up. Because it’s true. The statistics are insane. I hate society.
The statistics really are abhorent, and not just the heartbreakingly high share of women who have been assaulted but also that 95% of men in North America have tried to coerce women into sex
look at the chart, not saying it will be that much less if you use your personal definition of rape, but the most common method “The most common strategy was telling a woman whatever she wanted to hear and this was used by the majority (78.1%)” probably wouldn’t be called rape by very many people.
It’s coercion which isn’t rape but it isn’t ok either.
It’s vague enough as to presumably include flattery
Oh jesus…oh shit…oh god…
That’s…wow. That’s worse than I thought.That is beyond depressing. That’s just…holy shit, what’s wrong with this world?
I hate society, but I love seeing new posts from you! I was really happy to see your name in my inbox this morning, Miisha <3
Awww, Velma 😭
I’d hug you if I could, really 🫂
Thank you, it means a lot to me 💜hugs
You come get some Velma momma hugs whenever you want or need, please! My inbox is always open for you <3
You are just the kindest. Thank you so much ❤️
Me too!
Now she’s getting death threats because she dared speak up
that really isn’t suprising considering all the publicity
I was horrified to see that she was swatted the other day. They literally tried to kill her by police.
It’s fucked up that a common way of trying to get someone killed is to send law enforcement to their house. How badly has our society messed up to make that our reality?
This is only a common way in countries with low police standards. In Germany you could probably also provoke the police sending the SEK to someone’s home, but they’re way better trained how to not use their weapon. Not to mention the one who called will get fucked sideways for such a thing.
Not to say our cops are all great (fuck no), just that the US doesn’t properly educate theirs about deescalation and non-lethal tactics.
We expect better deescalation from corner store cashiers than from police
In Quebec we recently just made it a crime to hurt a cops feelings:
Yeah, my point exactly.
Jane Doe’s sworn statement in November of 2024 did not allege that she was drugged against her will or gang raped. On the contrary, Jane Doe’s statement described her participation in drug use and sexual conduct as voluntary, conscious, and consensual.
…
The View’s Sunny Hostin, a former federal prosecutor specializing in child sex crimes, said “she read the Jane Doe’s original nine-page 2024 statement” and “there is no way, according to her statement in 2024, that any prosecutor would have brought the case.”
How odd
Its ok. They consented to some kinky stuff, relating to cutting off oxygen to their balls.
And if they fall off, its just a known risk they consented to.
It’s already been revealed that Cornell purposefully held back evidence from the DA. Keep up.
Doe replied that “non [sic] of the sexual stuff was illegal”
Believe all women
The man started by apologizing for “how things went down.” He said his memory is “kinda fuzzy,” and that he and another man feel bad for being too intoxicated to “shut it down and kick people out before it got way out of hand.”
The woman in the text chain replied that her memory is “super clouded too,” and said they had all been heavily intoxicated.
She also wrote, “non(e) of the sexual stuff was illegal.” She said she liked being with him and another man. Later, she suggested they smoke together again, “but like leave out the extra 5 billion men and ketamine.”
You’re not being as clever as you think you are.
Thanks, I understand it’s normal to start planning to hang out with your gang rapists ASAP
It literally is
lol I wonder what it’s like living in this fantasy world of yours
You too can experience it, by doing research instead of basing your worldview on vibes.
It’s a lot less comfortable.
deleted by creator
I read the evidence available to the public and formed my own opinion. She regretted it after other women started slut shaming her.
She was planning to go party at the same frat house, with the same people, to use the same drugs, to get a smaller train run on her and ONLY after her invite was withdrawn did she decide to go crying about events.
I want you to know that you’re a real piece of shit
You will die alone and lonely
Fawning is a pretty normal trauma response along with freeze, fight, and flight.
Managed to get yourself banned from the Europe community for being a nazi, eh?
Oh yeah apparently being anti-slavery is nazi behaviour
Mhm.
This reminds me of a story my daughter told me. My daughter and one of her guy friends were sitting around talking about their experiences. They got into the typical one upping each other and he dropped the first time he had sex was with his babysitter when he was 12.
My daughter immediately apologized for what had happened to him (babysitter was 17). He was confused at first because no one had ever reacted that way. Most people cheered or egged him on when he told them. After he thought about it he thanked her. I was very proud of her when she told me this.
I’m proud of your daughter, too 💕
kinda like the ISAIP episode, where Dee said dennis was 'raped" when he said he bedded an older lady at 14, then the realization sunk in for him after being confused for a second.
…I’m a guy, and I remember defaulting to “bragging” about having a 19 year old girlfriend when I was 14. That seemed socially appropriate because of the praise I got. My partner at the time apologized like that too and I , also, was confused.
When I remembered what happened the first time it was pretty bad.
I was spending the night at my friends house while both our parents went out and she was the “adult” in case anything would happen while they were gone. She kept walking by the door in less and less clothing.
Then I remember her bringing us some snacks and drinks in her underwear for our video game marathon which caught my attention. We intended to stay up all night so I was confused when my friend fell asleep kinda suddenly.
I wasn’t tired so I kept playing. She comes out into the living room in only a towel, and just came over and took it from me, like. No words exchanged or anything just kissed me on the forehead when she was done with me. My friend is still snoring.
Suddenly I wanted to spend the night every weekend. Same scenario though, my friend would zonk out after snacks and she would come in and use me up. Of course it took me decades to realize she was drugging her brother so she could do that to me. I thought she loved me so I started treating her like a girlfriend. My parents picked up on it and did nothing. Said nothing. Took me to go hang out with her alone often.
Even now it’s really disgusting to think about. She is no longer alive so I can’t really do anything or tell her it was fucked up.
I have a hard time connecting to people. I think that’s why.
😢 that is so upsetting the adults reinforced it and approved it and encouraged it, how confusing it must have been, you were just a kid, yeah you kinda liked it but when we look back on things in retrospect through our adult eyes we see clearly, and your adults should have known better through their own adult understanding and they should have protected you. Because children & adults are simply incompatible as sexual partners and almost always causes lifelong psychological & social trauma for the victim 😢
I’m sorry that happened to you, that was fucked up.
Therapy has been really helpful. I don’t want to tell the whole story to anyone I know so being able to dump it all on some old lady that I don’t know is kinda amazing.
Im doing better about it now. Thank you.
What made you start to realise it was fucked up? Is it when you realised you’d been used rather than loved? And how might it affect how you’re able to connect with people now?
Just trying to understand how we go from celebrating a situation to feeling scared by it.
I saw her at the store one day a few years ago. We exchanged pleasantries and all that you’d do seeing an Ex, which is how I saw her in the moment. Something bothered me for a while after that. I couldn’t believe how short she was! Like she was less than 5 feet but I didn’t think I was a full foot and a half taller than her.
That’s because I wasn’t much taller than her then. I hadn’t finished growing. And then I remembered how it all went down. Realizing it could have had meaning to it, with someone I at least knew and maybe cared about. The fact that even my parents were just fine with it started to make me sick.
Started thinking about relationships in my adult life and how none of them have been satisfying. I’ve never been close enough to anyone to really have that kind of bond with. Being used and praised for it is a mindfuck.
This sounds exactly like the book The Reader, a fictional story but eerily similar to this comment :(
It doesn’t sound like a book I’d enjoy, but I’ll check it out. I force myself to read things I don’t enjoy from time to time.
Oh god this pedestrian fucking comic again…
They censored “rape”? Ok…
Pedestrian? Lol, do you drive a comedy car or something?
Oh god, this pedestrian fucking comment again…
She censors rape becauseost platforms she posts on auto remove and ban for the word rape.
Everyone has known a woman like this 🥺 can’t criticize what she’s been through but she’s out there perpetuating harm and you can’t make her see that
It took my mom decades to see the truth about what happened to her as a little girl. She didn’t tell my grandmother until a couple years ago. Heartbreaking.
It’s one of the many reasons that blaming victims should be called out each and every time. It’s imperative to be honest about these crimes and to believe victims when they come forward.
It’s imperative to be honest about these crimes and to believe victims when they come forward.
That is also not without its problems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_rape_hoax?wprov=sfla1
The Duke case resulted from a journalist who thought doing an investigation would be the same as disbelieving a victim, and editors who agreed. Now rape-apologists have a bloody shirt to wave around.
I’m for provisionally believing people, but also not rushing to judgement in each and every case. We can do both.
I never really understood believe victims to mean punish the accused with no evidence beyond testimony, more that we don’t need to loudly declare that victims are probably actually liars and offer support to people who clearly need it
Compassionately suspending judgment is not something we do well as a society. Battle lines are quickly drawn, sides chosen, and war begins before the jury is even seated.
We may not do it well right now, but we can change it.
Right, which is what makes misogyny such a bitch to bear
Yeah, I get why it happens. Declaring a unilateral truce isn’t a winning strategy, either. That’s why I said society as a whole has a problem; if one side instigates, the other has to respond. I don’t really have a solution.
I’m not really sure what you mean. There aren’t sides
The rate of false claims is much, much lower than actual rape and sexual assault. It’s not non-existent, but we shouldn’t immediately assume a rape victim is lying.
More often than not, the default is to dismiss and downplay claims.
Agreed!
My problem with lowering the legal standard from “beyond a reasonable doubt” to “believe victims”, isn’t that there are a lot of false reports.
Right now no one believes or prosecutes real reports because of rape culture, why would anyone bother with a fake report? However, if we decide all someone has to do is say “this person raped me” and that’s enough to put someone in jail then assholes are going to start filling false reports to hurt people they don’t like.
I believe that men and women are all people and that many people are assholes. So I think the same women who, as men, would commit violent crimes now have a shockingly easy way to hurt people. And even if you believe that women are better people than men and they would rarely do it no matter how easy it is, men can do it to.
All it would take is to meet up with someone, escape to a private space ideally with witnesses and now I can claim they raped me. I think that makes it dangerously easy for assholes of any genders to really hurt someone through the legal system.
I’d like to see what a functional legal system that cares more about protecting victims than it does about protecting “promising young men” looks like. One where we exterminate the rape culture that saturates our legal system. If we actually prosecuted and punished rape cases that currently ALREADY MEET the threshold of “beyond a reasonable doubt” that would by itself fix a huge part of the problem.
Also, until we fix our general rape culture you would just have tons of jury nullification, tons of judges and prosecutors throwing cases because the “threshold is too low”. People talk about jury nullification as if was a good thing, but 90% of the time it was used was for protecting white racists in Jim Crowe and protecting usually drunk drivers in vehicular homicide cases. It will be used here if people think the threshold of “believe victims” is too low.
“Believe women” for me works when interacting with the victim. Why people have to start picking apart a traumatic story when they hear it is insane to me. It’s crazy that we need rhetoric to tell people “if someone trusts you with a traumatic story, don’t be a dick about it”.
The official FBI stats indicate that less than 5% of claims investigated turn out to be false. That’s counting hoaxes, false alarms, and malicious reporting. I want to say they investigate around 388,000 reports annually on average so the combined number of events that don’t turn out to be true is less than 20k and the number of purposely false claims is going to be a lot less than that.
And is 10-20k people per year falsely punished for rape okay to you? I’m just trying to understand your statement in context better.
Theyre not punished for it, the report is found to be false during the investigation and you may be surprised to find out the investigations are rarely public enough for anyone to know they happened.
But we shouldn’t automatically believe as well. We need to doubt, not believe anyone who claims to be a victim.
The rate of false claims is much, much lower than actual rape and sexual assault.
And this is minimum debatable for me, at least.
There are good evidence and arguments on the opposite.
I can bring sources for my claims. It’s not as debatable as you want to push here.
I have my sources too; it’s debatable as the metodology used to collect that data it’s at least suspicious, to say the least.
And, hear me out, I’m not here to argue or to say that women are the villainesses of the story and that they’re manipulating everything, nor to deny that millions of women are assaulted and raped everyday, but hey, there are some big biases, fallacies and metodological errors that are distorting how the data is collected and interpreted, whether it’s deliberate or not.
It is not true that there are more false allegations of rape than true allegations.
For anyone curious, they’re apparently finally reopening the Cornel 7 rape case for the dudes who had to write an essay for gangraping a woman for what amounts to a working shift…
yup. meet my aunt. many years of pick me isms and trying to shame me for speaking out for the metoo movement.
she was kidnapped as a young woman in a foreign country. she says she survived the ordeal and was never afraid during the whole episode but since i have known her she was absolutely cruel , shaming any victim of rape, hoisting her opinions up on being a survivor looking down on everyone else
slowly… she found she couldnt stand to be alone anywhere. not even without a big dog.
then it got worse
fast forward decades later now she is in shambles struggling with that past trauma that manifested as severely crippling anxiety as she grows older and cant even be around more than a few people without having a massive emotional breakdown. the last one she ended up hospitalized. now isolated herself on an island, claiming shes just wanting ‘alone time’ and cant stand people.
doesnt hesitate to middle finger at any women who speak up about rape.
behold: the true ‘survivor’.
Sadly, things like this happen to victims of all kinds of abuse. When I was a kid, my father would sometimes tell me about things that his father did to him. Eventually I recognized that he had suffered horrible physical and verbal abuse. His father, in turn, had lived a life filled with trauma. Instead of dealing with it, he unloaded all his trauma onto his kids who then unloaded their inherited trauma onto their kids, including me.
When I began to recognize this dynamic, It was like I could see the little boy, within my dad, who just wanted to be loved but instead was systematically destroyed; through no fault of his own. His capacity for joy and love were greatly compressed, and the void filled with fear and anger. I saw that I was just like him and I was horrified at that discovery.
Sometimes people try to run away from the pain and fear. I think that’s why they try to pretend they’re above it. Because it feels easier to malign people who share your experience, in order to try and pretend it wasn’t real, than it is to face the pain and fear.
But until you face it, you will never escape it. It will always be there wreaking havoc on your life and lives of those around you.
this comment made me think a good bit
i’m so happy i’m breaking untold generational cycles of familial trauma and abuse by not having kids and ending my bloodline with myself
for everyone reading out there, there’s never anything wrong with cutting off shitty family if they deserve it. don’t let anyone guilt you into believing otherwise
I think a lot of mental illnesses are inherited this way. I would love to see some reseach on this. Most research that I could find focuses on mental illnesses being inherited through the genome.
“i went through it and turned out fine. If you went through it and became traumatized, it means you were weak. And I’m not weak, so I wasn’t traumatized”
Tale as old as time.
Thank you for your aunt’s story, it made me once again realise my levels of misanthropy aren’t healthy and I need yet another 100 hours of therapy.
I mean, you’re not wrong to have a certain view of men. It’s just that living in those feelings all the time is harmful.
Misanthropy is the general hate and/or distrust for the human species, not just men.
You’re right, I somehow heard “misandry.” But I would have wrote the same thing. People suck.
I watched one of those kidnapping storys on youtube and I thought until 40 minutes in that the situation must have beed retty bad for her until the last 5 minutes which gave lasting anxiety. That shit isn’t just bad, its horrifying
![Realization [PizzaCake]](https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/58eacea0-b255-4a2d-b579-35265a7cffee.png){kind=link}