• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Wasn’t Mueller behind the massive illegal spying program under George Bush Jr?

    https://archive.is/PFUm4

    Opponents have challenged provisions of the USA Patriot Act, the focus of contentious debate on Capitol Hill this week, that expand domestic surveillance by giving the Federal Bureau of Investigation more power to collect information like library lending lists or Internet use. Military and F.B.I. officials have drawn criticism for monitoring what were largely peaceful antiwar protests.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President's_Surveillance_Program

    • Shirasho@lemmings.world
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      4 days ago

      What Obama said was not entirely true to Robert’s personality and actions, but that is beside the point.

      The point is that some people have decorum and are good speakers. Some people, even if they don’t mean it, are respectful of the dead, even if they don’t deserve it.

      And some manchildren have none of that. The day that man baby dies I probably won’t have any decorum either.

      • lumpenproletariat@quokk.au
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        4 days ago

        The point is that some people have decorum and are good speakers. Some people, even if they don’t mean it, are respectful of the dead, even if they don’t deserve it.

        “It doesn’t matter if he was evil, he spoke well and respect bad people dying”

        Why do centrists always police language over action?

        • Shirasho@lemmings.world
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          4 days ago

          You just assumed I’m a centrist because I expect politicians to be respectful of each other? Holy shit dude there is something wrong with your moral compass. Respecting people and disagreeing with them are not mutually exclusive.

          • lumpenproletariat@quokk.au
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            4 days ago

            I assumed you’re a centrist because you went on to praise “decorum” instead of the negatives he did, but I suppose to be fair you could also be a right winger.

          • Gathorall@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            It’s like the pro-life of conservatives, a good soundbite but actually “decorum” means respecting absolutely nothing, like pro-life means intense hatred towards living people.

            “All lives matter” is another school of thought equivalent to insisting on decorum.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        And some manchildren have none of that.

        Obama very wisely and maturely appointed Mueller’s protege James Comey to head the FBI. Comey very diligently and methodically played Ds and Rs against one another to secure his position as a radical centrist. And between the two of them, the conditions were laid for a Manchild to take control of the executive branch.

        I just don’t get the need for hagiography. All these guys sucked. Some of them were just smoother about it than others.

          • lumpenproletariat@quokk.au
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            4 days ago

            If Trump wasn’t any of those 3 things, would you have any more positive view on what he’s done while in office?

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Obama is not a pedophile

            He sent his kids to work at Miramax fully aware of Harvey Weinstein’s history. He spent more labor and resources conducting a Cold War across Latin America and the Middle East than cracking down on the crooks, the white nationalists, and the pedophiles at home.

            Ffs, his chief economic advisor - Larry Summers - absolutely was a pedophile. As were his political allies in the tech sector, Elon Musk and Bill Gates.

            If he wasn’t personally schtupping kids, he was enabling and enriching those that did.

            Trump, himself, was engaged in open and notorious human trafficking through Eastern Europe during Obama’s tenure. This whole thing could have been nipped in the bud if his FBI director James Comey cared half as much about Krasnov as Hillary’s emails.

    • Hatshepsut@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      Yes, there was his part in the selling of the WMD narrative in Iraq:

      On February 11, 2003, one month before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Mueller gave testimony to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Mueller informed the American public that “[s]even countries designated as state sponsors of terrorism—Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Cuba, and North Korea—remain active in the United States and continue to support terrorist groups that have targeted Americans. As Director Tenet has pointed out, Secretary Powell presented evidence last week that Baghdad has failed to disarm its weapons of mass destruction, willfully attempting to evade and deceive the international community. Our particular concern is that Saddam Hussein may supply terrorists with biological, chemical or radiological material.”[48][49] Highlighting this worry in February 2003, FBI Special Agent Coleen Rowley wrote an open letter to Mueller in which she warned that “the bureau will [not] be able to stem the flood of terrorism that will likely head our way in the wake of an attack on Iraq”[50][51] and encouraged Mueller to “share [her concerns] with the President and Attorney General.”

      But he did oppose the renewal of the warrantless wiretapping:

      On March 10, 2004, while United States Attorney General John Ashcroft was at the George Washington University Hospital for gallbladder surgery,[52] then-deputy attorney general James Comey received a call from Ashcroft’s wife informing him that White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card and White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales were about to visit Ashcroft to convince him to renew a program of warrantless wiretapping under the Terrorist Surveillance Program which the DOJ ruled unconstitutional.[52] Ashcroft refused to sign, as he had previously agreed, but the following day the White House renewed the program anyway.[52] Mueller and Comey then threatened to resign.[53] On March 12, 2004, after private, individual meetings with Mueller and Comey at the White House, the president supported changing the program to satisfy the concerns of Mueller, Ashcroft, and Comey.

    • lumpenproletariat@quokk.au
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      4 days ago

      Yes, but centrists expect us to move on and forget about all that stuff because they support it.

      People like Obama and Mueller are entirely to blame for the role they played in the move towards state empowerment and fascism. However as they appear in opposition to Trump they will garner public sympathy.

    • Nasan@sopuli.xyz
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      4 days ago

      Being able to handle hurt fee fees like an adult needs to be a requirement for any public office.

      • autriyo@feddit.org
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        4 days ago

        At this point I’m so jaded that I just kind of accepted it to be real…

        I just don’t care anymore, he’s shown his true colours and for whatever reasons people still like him.

  • TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    Did I miss something? Robert “Patriot Act” Mueller is now liked by Lemmy just because Trump doesn’t like him?

    • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it
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      3 days ago

      It’s about decorum.

      Berlinguer[*] has been described in many ways but was generally recognised for political coherence and courage, together with a rare personal and political intelligence. A serious and morally rigorous man,[87] he was sincerely respected even by his opponents, such as the Italian Social Movement leader Giorgio Almirante,[**] who paid his homage to Berlinguer and lowered himself in front to his coffin at Botteghe Oscure.[70]

      [*] national ssecretary of the Italian Communist Party (PCI)

      [**] Giorgio Almirante (27 June 1914 – 22 May 1988) was an Italian politician who founded the neo-fascist Italian Social Movement, which he led until his retirement in 1987

      Allegedly Almirante, a guy who literally sentence fellow Italians to death, said that “Oltre il rogo non vive ira nemica” (“No foe’s wraith survives the funerary pure”)

  • whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 days ago

    As one of probably 12 people who actually read the Mueller report it was a list of crimes the president and conspirators committed, and very clearly left it up to the branch of government required to impeach and remove the president, legislative via Congress. That part was the job of Congress, not the judicial branch. But obviously then the US Congress abdicated their responsibilities to uphold the constitution in both the facts of the report and both impeachments, ignoring the facts of reality and their legal obligations under the constitution. Because people like Mitch McConnell whipped politicians to kill any action the executive lied that the report contained no crimes and corrupt mass media propaganda sold the lie to the public as usual.

    • Raiderkev@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I always tell Maga chuds to actually read the Mueller report before they tell me that there was “no collusion”. They are fucking simpletons that get their hot takes from Fox News or some stupid influencer (likely on the Kremlin’s payroll) and run with it. They have 0 critical thinking skills and can’t be bothered to do a single bit of research beyond the idiot box. It’s maddening.

      • mechoman444@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        It is incredible to me how they’re willing to bend and break so many rules and laws of this country, including the most fundamental tenets of our constitution. But indicting the president is the one thing they’re not going to do. That’s the one law that is sacred above all else.

    • NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net
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      3 days ago

      Take him off the pedestal in your mind. The man is responsible for the existence of ICE, and has one of the highest scores of drone striking civilians out of any president.

    • abigscaryhobo@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      He’s a politician and a former president? Of course he’s on X. Every single politician has been for almost a decade now.

  • spacesatan@leminal.space
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    4 days ago

    Correct take for the wrong reasons vs bad take wrapped in decorum.

    ‘the difference is real’ yeah sure I guess.

  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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    4 days ago

    Mueller being a republican, he wasnt going to do real damage to trump. but trump is very vindictive, any perception of being accused he will attack them regardless of thier loyaltly.