So people kind of knew asbestos was harmful wayyy before it mostly stopped being used in 1979 (USA). But, it was still used constantly in many industries and ended up everywhere. What do you think is an example of something we find out is DRASTICALLY harmful 10-50 years from now? My guess would be screen time.
Someone mentioned PFAS, I would add regular old exhaust fumes. Terribly bad for you, terribly bad for the brain, effects linger and compound.
China did studies on it back before they went hard core renewables and electrical, turns out breathing fumes drops your IQ by so many points, and it takes more than 24 hours to kind of get back to normal, but if you whiff it again before that the timer resets.
I’m summarizing from memory, but that’s the gist of it.
Fuck cars, fuck fossil fuels.
Vape juice
Definitely
3/4 of politicians will say porn. 1/4 will say marijuana. Gotta protect the children /s
I think porn is equivalent to a drug/alcohol. Some people can do a glass of wine with dinner and relax. Others need to get hammered every time and punch a cop. Some people can get the poison out with some porn daily/weekly and be cool. Others end up gooning for hours a day and fucking themselves up. Regardless, I don’t think access to any drug/legal porn should be restricted by the government.
- The American industrialized food chain
- Glyphosate
- Modern technology-centric lifestyles
- Dark patterns
- Most social media
For all the panicky people:
Microplastics are bad, but they’re not remotely close to asbestos bad. Nobody is dying horribly from emphysema because they accidentally contacted microplastics two decades ago. The effects absolutely exist, but they’re quite subtle and do not involve suffocating while you cough your lungs out in small pieces.
Gylphosate is bad, but it’s mostly bad for the people working directly with it and ignoring every safety precaution (the Venn diagram of those two groups is pretty much a circle). Eating food that was once treated with gylphosate will not be remotely bad for you on any measurable scale.
Source: am chemist, work as a safety professional (independent, no large company is paying me for anything but an occasional audit that is mostly unrelated to chemistry)
But, I’ll happily add something that’s bad, but not on the level of asbestos. Indoor cooking on fire and/or with poor ventilation. It creates combustion products, releases particulate and smoke and many complex volatiles that are just drifting around in your house for pretty much the entire evening.
Edit: and growing your own food on local soil in a city. That dirt has been collecting pollution for a century, and the odds are pretty decent that it might actually qualify for remediation if you live near anywhere industrial or a big road that’s been there for a while. Get your soil tested, or use raised beds if you’re growing food.
Microplastics get smaller and likely more dangerous every year. We don’t know how much present day cancer can be attributed to microplastics, there is no control group.
I feel bad for the poor humans on Sentinel Island that, despite being completely isolated from industrial society, still have our microplastics in them.
That’s okay they don’t wear polyester, use teabags, use plastic pellet fertiliser or prepare food with plastic so their exposure is probably super low
Obviously microplastics wont be as bad as asbestos. But since we have kept making our world “safer” with these things, horrible stuff like asbestos wont really be a problem. The consequences will not be as bad, like you said. But I don’t think the point was “what will be as bad as asbestos” but more like “what will be something that we will find out is worse than we first thought” or what will be something that has unintended/unforseen consequences.
I’m not panicking, I just had my daily inhaled dose of asbestos dust today, doing a front end alignment. What do you think most brake pads are made with?
Source: Am mechanic, and know what the smell of freshly wet road consists of, which is all sorts of toxic substances, including asbestos dust. And we’ve all smelled freshly wet pavement before…
What do you think most brake pads are made with?
Today I learned the US allowed asbestos brakepads till mid 2024. Jesus fucking christ people.
Nobody is dying horribly from emphysema because they accidentally contacted microplastics two decades ago.
Aren’t the vast majority of people suffering cancer from asbestos exposure the people that worked with asbestos for years? From what I understand, you’re very unlikely to suffer from a single exposure.
That being said, asbestos is fucking everywhere. Veritasium recently did a video on it, and a lot of the soil around Las Vegas just naturally contains it, and gets kicked up by vehicles, construction, wind, etc.
the natural stuff is in clumps that your not able to breathe, and yeah asbestos is natural and almost everywhere there’s rocks. it’s usually in long fiber like strings. even when it’s broken up, it’s not particle size and airborne. it’s usually bonded together.
it’s that stuff that was industrialized and refined. that stuff that can become airborne and inhaled. One particle that gets absorbed might stay with you forever but it’s usually the build up of many exposures that causes the problem.
so many older houses have it in the attic and siding. it’s not going anywhere
Aren’t the vast majority of people suffering cancer from asbestos exposure the people that worked with asbestos for years?
Sorta kinda. It was much easier to get prolonged asbestos exposure than repeated glyphosate exposure. We used it in everything, including carpets and roofs. The asbestos fibers in those roofs are fine, but the glue holding them together isn’t. It’s been falling on the ground since forever, but it’s accelerating more and more.
Meanwhile, the only people working unsafely with glyphosate are basically a subset of farmers. Now, I’ve basically NEVER seen a farmer handle chemicals according to the instructions, so within that group unsafe exposure is basically 100%, but it’s a much smaller fraction of the population.
Microplastics.
I think so too. We don’t really have conclusive studies yet on what microplastics do to our health, but we do know we have quite a lot of them inside our bodies. At the same time certain types of cancers are getting ever more common, and amongst younger people as well. Might not be connected, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised.
Every year microplastic pieces get smaller and more numerous. The health effects of microplastics likely worsen over time
Aren’t at least some of those cancers thought to be from processed food and low fibre diets?
If you’re referring to the study blaming colon cancer on processed meats, it’s a major reach.
It was an epidemiological study, which are notorious for poor controlling of variables. If the effect has a relative risk increase greater than 100% (i.e. doubles risk or more), then you can use the results of an epidemiologal study, but results less than that should be treated with a lot of skepticism. This particular study was only 18%, well within the error bounds of this type of study.
For contrast, the epidemiological studies used to establish a causal link between smoking and lung cancer had a risk increase in the ballpark of 10,000%
You’re totally on the money with your core thesis about epidemiological studies here, and I agree processed meats as a standalone variable are likely a massively overplayed factor in CRC research.
When it comes to the more general claims in the GP comment though, re: processed food and low fiber, there are literally hundreds of independent studies at different levels all pointing in similar directions. It’s pretty incontrovertible at this point.
See any recent review on CRC etiology for reference, e.g.: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Elroy-Weledji/publication/377724506_Clinics_in_Oncology_The_Etiology_and_Pathogenesis_of_Colorectal_Cancer_OPEN_ACCESS/links/65b3f83e79007454973be66e/Clinics-in-Oncology-The-Etiology-and-Pathogenesis-of-Colorectal-Cancer-OPEN-ACCESS.pdf
Thanks for an interesting source!
I legitimately think it’ll be what kills humans off.
We can survive climate change, albeit at a greatly reduced population, but microplastics are already impacting fertility rates.
Are fertility rates really a problem caused by microplastics? There are people who want to have kids who can’t, but the ones who are young are a small percentage of people.
The two things with the most overwhelming influence on fertility rates is the willingness of people to have children and their access to birth control.
It’s not something that’s been extensively studied in humans, but it does cause reproductive harm in animal models.
Nah, we’ll adapt. There are already bacteria that can break down and eat plastic. At some point, someone will have a genetic mutation in their gut bacteria that also causes it to breakdown and consume plastic and then the probiotic industry will be tripping all over itself to patent and sell it to us.
Yeah thats a scary one
There’s no replacing plastic like we could do with asbestos. We’re screwed
There are bioplastics that are actually compostable and biodegradable, and I’m sure with enough research we could develop others with better properties.
But why would we research a way to make the world a better place when we can just pull oil out of the ground and burn it and make forever chemicals out of it instead?
In everything from clothes to blankets to tires. Everything including chewing gum.
Microplastics is the obvious one. High fructose corn syrup. Palm oil is used in so many things (even juices and biscuits/cookies). Billionaires. Politicians.
In terms of materials, plastic food packaging maybe?
Yeah microplastics seem creepy
Oil extracted from the ground. That takes the trophy for the whole century.
Cars. I hope vroomers rots in hell
Hottest take and speculative: Covid.
And it kind of depends on how you think about the scale of impacts. Aspestos is horribly damaging for a few people directly exposed. The rate of exposure to covid is orders of magnitude higher.
I think we’ve really only begun to see the long term impacts, and we know already of many of the long term issues related to decline in cognitive abilities, heart issues, all kinds of other stuff. But we right now, only know the small “near tail” behavior of those issues. It will take decades to find the “long tail” behavior of the disease.
So if asbestos exposure is 100x as damaging as covid exposure, say… but 10,000x as many are exposed to covid… its overall impact is 100x that of asbestos.
Very interesting what long term effects many aspects of that situation will be.
Yeah. I mean, I think we’ll see a global drop in total average intelligence equivalent to wide-scale exposure to an environmental toxin like lead.
Asbestos is bad.
But how do you quantify the impacts of a global average decline in IQ of 1-2%?
From having covid or the vaccine?
I wouldn’t speculate trying to split out anything regarding covid. I would treat it as a singular event.
My likely candidates: Fossil fuels. Rising CO2 levels can lead to brain fog, right now indoor CO2 levels due to bad ventilation already lead to imaired cognivity. With rising atmospheric CO2 levels this will become more common. Nano particles, different materials are being used today with dimensions similar to those of asbestos particles, and it turns out they have the same effect. It’s not the asbestos, it’s how the body handles these particles. Think of stuff like mineral wool, carbon nanotubes, silica. Sitting. More and more people are sitting down (inside, so they also lack vitamin D) for long parts of the day, and it leads to all kinds of medical problems.
Look at the silicosis litigation that has started. Everyone wanted granite and quartz countertops, 30 years later, people cutting all that now have lung disease
I do workplace safety, and it’s incredibly hard to work with (manufactured) stone in a safe way. The dust gets everywhere, and you basically have to take the same safety precautions as with asbestos remediation.
Seems like the lungs are way more fragile than we would like to admit.
That’s one way to look at it, I’d say they are pretty robust seeing how we abuse them, and how long they’ll last in conditions they didn’t evolve in.
Not to mention the use of fine silica in things like abrasives and friction braking compounds.
You know that stinky smell on the streets and roads just after it starts raining? Yeah, that’s a combination of asphalt, tire rubber dust, and asbestos brake pad dust… What a lovely smell!
Asbestos never disappeared, it’s still used in most brake pads to this day, though there is at least some recent motivation for vehicle manufacturers to switch to other materials.
A day late and a dollar short if you ask me, cuz I bet that unless you live under a rock, you’ve inhaled asbestos before. ☹️
Yeah, thats why I included “mostly” in my question.
Asbestos isn’t used in brake pads anymore, we’ve gone to organo metallic mixtures. So mostly carbon with some iron, manganese, and nickel thrown in.
Meanwhile, while I service vehicles over 30 years old, and new old stock still sits on the shelves and they ain’t making new parts for old vehicles anymore…
Yeah, please, please tell me that everyone’s brake pads were manufactured within the last two years, I’ll laugh you right out of the shop. 😂🤣
So you swapped out a few pairs of NOS parts on a couple classics. I worked as an engineer for akebono, one of the biggest brake manufacturers in the world. Almost every European and American manufacturer ditched asbestos around 1990. Some imported “value” pads may contain asbestos, and some classic cars are still gonna have asbestos pads. But the vast majority of cars on the road do not.
Honestly? Oil usage. Everyone knows it’s bad, and the only people really in a position to do anything about have a vested interest in leaving things as is.
This sounds exactly like Asbestos.
What oil?
You mean fossil fuelfuel or like sunflower and olive?
The one that’s choking the world economy because total output went down 20%
