Many people on lemmy.ml deeply respect and admire authoritarian governments and organizations.
Iran, China, North Korea, Soviet Union…
The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.
Iran hangs homosexuals. Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks. The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping. The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion. China censors the internet. China wants to eliminate Islam. North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.
Why is lemmy.ml so fascinated with authoritarians?
Locking. Too many people breaking rule 1.
Keep it nice people!
Because that’s Marcist-lenisim?
Stalin named it, and he’s the one that set the definition of what that means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
They don’t call it “Stalinism” because that’s way harder to defend.
The ones you see online don’t even understand it, it literally requires supporting the left most party, but I’ve never seen a .ml account actually pushing for change thru the two party system, despite that literally being the first step:
Marxism–Leninism holds that a two-stage communist revolution is needed to replace capitalism. A vanguard party, organized through democratic centralism, would seize power on behalf of the proletariat and establish a one-party communist state. The state would control the means of production, suppress opposition, counter-revolution, and the bourgeoisie, and promote Soviet collectivism, to pave the way for an eventual communist society that would be classless and stateless.[12]
Most people online that say they’re “ML” don’t understand anything about it. They “learned” all they know from unsourced shitposts.
Which is crazy, because this is the closest actual ML has ever come, after trump the Dems are most likely to gain so many seats, it’ll effectively be a one party government starting 2029.
If we get a progressive Dem that will name a progressive DNC chair after becoming president, we’re fucking there. A one party government that’s genuinely for the proletariat.
Any that claims to actually be ML and isn’t pushing for the DNC as hard as possible right now is lying about their self professed label, or never understood what it meant
this is hilarious and sad to read at the same time
It definitely caused a predictable reaction from .ml accounts
Cognitive dissonance is pretty hard to deal with when people actually know what your ethos says.
Give em time tho, some day they’ll be just as good at it as modern Christians or maga.
Most people are fed up with your binary libshit politics, nobody cares about your manufactured culture war of lgbt vs christians. Keep living in your comfort zone which your govt is providing you by bombing schools in middle east.
It’s weird how many 1 month old accounts have such serious issues with me…
nobody cares about your manufactured culture war of lgbt vs christians.
I’m wondering where that came from tho, that’s a new one
I joined lemmy in 2023, one account was gone because it was on lemm.ee instance, another account I made on .zip was banned by admin because he didnt like some of my comments
nobody cares about your manufactured culture war of lgbt vs christians.
I’m wondering where that came from tho, that’s a new one
Can I get an answer?
What is your question? you are the type who believes fascism can be voted away and so support the establishment parties who manufacture culture wars.
Disclaimer I’m not from the states.
Believing the Democratic Party will in anyway abolish or even threaten capitalism is laughable. Even the most “left” (I don’t like the left/right axis) politicians in America are at most social-democrats and are more likely to actually enact social liberal policies. The democrats will never pose an actual threat to capitalism.
The republicans are much more enamored with the status quo, but the democrats won’t resolve the structural contradictions the USA (and the west) faces.
Believing the Democratic Party will in anyway abolish or even threaten capitalism is laughable
I’m not talking about “the party” I’m talking about the DNC…
And the DNC is basically a dictatorship run under the chair, for four years they’re accountable to no one and for a long string of chairs that’s worked out horribly.
When a Dem becomes president, they name a DNC chair. Meaning the last one was obvious a neoliberal appointed by Biden and thats why they didn’t let us have a primary.
Right now the DNC chair is legitimately nonbiased. They won’t say shit till after the primary, and support everyone equally that goes to a general.
That means, ML should be pushing really really hard for a progressive Dem in the presidential primary, one who they believe will appoint someone explicitly progressive as chair.
Like, if you think the literal first step in ML invalidated the whole thing…
I’m just explaining what their plan is, go to .ml and tell them that you believe their entire plan is fundamentally flawed and if they agree, ask them why they still say they’re ML.
The DNC is incapable of being a communist vanguard, the purpose of a vanguard party is to build up a reliable cadre of disciplined communists that can bring the working class struggle under one banner for the purposes of revolution. The idea that a liberal party dominated by capital could be confused for a vanguard is genuinely baffling, and the fact that you think Marxist-Leninists organizing in parties actually attempting to become a vanguard like PSL is baffling. I’ve never seen someone so confidently incorrect about Marxism-Leninism.
Lenin’s central thesis to the vanguard model is written plainly in What is to be Done?
God, the “actually, Lenin would have voted blue no matter who” takes are the most compelling evidence of “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” I’ve ever seen.
Lenin supported participation in bourgeois electoralism in a communist party, while also being extremely, constantly critical of social democratic reformists. The Democrats having one good election is not going to cause “the proletariat to seize power and establish a one-party communist state” unless you’ve been watching too much OAN.
You must not sink to the level of the masses, to the level of the backward strata of the class. That is incontestable. You must tell them the bitter truth. You are in duty bound to call their bourgeois-democratic and parliamentary prejudices what they are—prejudices.
Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.
The conclusion which follows from this is absolutely incontrovertible: it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revolutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete”.
Lenin’s reason for participating in bourgeois electoralism was specifically to reach people who believed it was an adequate solution in order to persuade them to engage in mass action and outright revolution. This “Lenin was a reformist, actually” line is complete and total nonsense.
God, the “actually, Lenin would
I think your confusion is you think Lenin had any say what so ever in what Stalin called “Marxism-Lenism”
Which is a pretty foundational misunderstanding coming from a literal .ml account
Dear God, where did you even pick up these brainworms?
Yes, I’m well aware that Stalin coined the term “Marxism-Leninism.” That doesn’t in any way mean that Lenin “had nothing to do with” the ideology, since his writings formed the basis of it.
It’s literally the first step of ML…
If you’re so against that, have you thought of evaluating all the parts?
Were you even aware that one of the core tenets of ML is voting for the lesser evil no matter what?
If you’re so against that, have you thought of evaluating all the parts?
Against what? Your completely absurd, blatantly ahistorical distortion of theory? Again, where did you even pick up these brainworms?
Were you even aware that one of the core tenets of ML is voting for the lesser evil no matter what?
No, because it isn’t. You’re just trolling, aren’t you? Did you read a single thing I quoted?
You quoted Lenin…
Again, he had no say in “Marxism-Leninism”, because Stalin made it up using their names.
You can’t defend ML by using quotes of Lenon or Marx, because those parts may or may not be in ML.
You keep saying you understand that, but you clearly don’t or you wouldn’t be doing what you’re doing.
Lmao. So just to make this absolutely clear, in your worldview:
-
Lenin was an evil crazy revolutionary who only advocated participation in bourgeois elections for the purpose of guiding people towards revolutionary activity
-
Stalin, a moderate reformist, invented an entirely new ideology called Marxism-Leninism that had absolutely nothing to with either Marx or Lenin despite fighting side-by-side with Lenin during the revolution and extensively citing both of them.
“Stalin, the moderate reformist” is a new one for me so I feel like I gotta take a step back and clarify that that’s actually what you’re claiming here.
Edit:
- Reforminsm and revolutionism. What is the difference between revolutionary tactics and reformist tactics?
Some think that Leninism is opposed to reforms, opposed to compromises and to agreements in general. This is absolutely wrong. Bolsheviks know as well as anybody else that in a certain sense “every little helps,” that under certain conditions reforms in general, and compromises and agreements in particular, are necessary and useful.
“To carry on a war for the overthrow of the international bourgeoisie,” says Lenin, “a war which is a hundred times more difficult, protracted, and complicated than the most stubborn of ordinary wars between states, and to refuse beforehand to manoeuvre, to utilise the conflict of interests (even though temporary) among one’s enemies, to reject agreements and compromises with possible (even though temporary, unstable, vacillating and conditional) allies–is not this ridiculous in the extreme? Is it not as though, when making a difficult ascent of an unexplored and hitherto inaccessible mountain, we were to refuse beforehand ever to move in zigzags, ever to retrace our steps, ever to abandon the course once selected and to try others?” (see Vol. XXV, p. 210).
Obviously, therefore, it is not a matter of reforms or of compromises and agreements, but of the use people make of reforms and agreements.
To a reformist, reforms are everything, while revolutionary work is something incidental, something just to talk about, mere eyewash. That is why, with reformist tactics under the conditions of bourgeois rule, reforms are inevitability transformed into an instrument for strengthening that rule, an instrument for disintegrating the revolution.
To a revolutionary, on the contrary, the main thing is revolutionary work and not reforms; to him reforms are a by-product of the revolution. That is why, with revolutionary tactics under the conditions of bourgeois rule, reforms are naturally transformed into an instrument for strengthening the revolution, into a strongpoint for the further development of the revolutionary movement.
The revolutionary will accept a reform in order to use it as an aid in combining legal work with illegal work to intensify, under its cover, the illegal work for the revolutionary preparation of the masses for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie.
That is the essence of making revolutionary use of reforms and agreements under the conditions of imperialism.
Oh hey, Stalin cites Lenin in his book titled Foundations of Leninism and argues for the exact same position I just showed Lenin expressed! What are the odds!
-
Stalin did not distort Marx or Lenin, he synthesized what Marx and Lenin theorized and practiced into a unified ideology and term. The reason it isn’t called “Stalinism” is because compared to Marx and Lenin, Stalin’s new contributions to Marxism-Leninism are like a puddle to their oceans, a tree to their forests.
If we get a progressive Dem that will name a progressive DNC chair after becoming president, we’re fucking there. A one party government that’s genuinely for the proletariat.
America was apparently a Marxist leninist utopia in 2009 lol
This can’t be genuine, right? :D
because they believe to make society better you must punish and control the people through fear.
And they fantasize about being the people who get to do this. Because they ‘know’ better than everyone else how they should live and you need to be ‘educated’ like they are if you are to be a member of this better society.
Pure projection
Authoritarians are always the same no matter what holy book they wave around. Ultimately, all they care about is their own power. Now, our dear friends from .ml certainly don’t have any power, but they like to fantasize about it.
people like internet echo chambers because it makes them feel big.
Authoritarians are always the same no matter what holy book they wave around
… but you’ll notice, they always have a holy book to worship.
Even the ones that call themselves ‘Atheist’. Those are the worst. Because instead of purporting to speak on behalf of the fluffy undefinable divine, they simply replace it with themselves. Hence the miraculous double rainbows, new star in the sky, and season changing instantly from winter to spring on the day Kim Jong Il was born.
Even the ones that call themselves ‘Atheist’. Those are the worst
No, you are the worst. The gall of choosing between religious authoritarians vs non-religious authoritarians and picking based on you’re innate hatred of atheism is stunning.
Every authoritarian system makes the head of it into god-king. It was so with the pope, Stalin, every emperor that ever walked the Earth. And you literally do not know anything about history if you claim that atheist are the worst.
By “holy book” I also mean titles like “Das Kapital”, “Mein Kampf” or “The Art of the Deal”.
yes exactly what I was thinking as well
Are you really putting one of the most cited economic texts of all time next to the ravings of two genocidal fascists?
Unresolved daddy issues.
Not even joking. Left or right, if you spend more than five minutes talking to somebody on the authoritarian side of the political spectrum, their relationship with their dad WILL get mentioned. They’re obsessed with dads.
sounds like all of my bad first dates with the ladies. daddy issue girls can’t wait to tell you about their dad.
Hmm I can’t say I have the same experience, but perhaps I did not dig down deep enough during those conversations into their relationships with their parents.
It always seemed to me the difference between an authoritarian and a non-authoritarian socialist/communist was based on their view of other people: the authoritarians I spoke with usually regarded people as flawed and in need of guidance, whereas non-authoritarians seemed to believe people are inherently good but corrupted.
most people’s primary problem with other people is that they are not themselves.
What do you mean by “non-authoritarian?” Are you speaking of a divide between Marxists and anarchists, or something more vague?
yea I was trying to say anarchist without saying anarchist :)
Authoritarian communists vs libertarian communists – but the libertarian there tripped me up into a state of doubt. Marxists vs anarchists could’ve done as well, but it might not necessarily be linked to communism or socialism at all, and just saying something about the nature or cause of authoritarianism, hence the dumbing down to non-authoritarian.
So is authoritarianism the presence of having a state, even in a temporary form, in your eyes?
TIL I’m obsessed with my dad.
Thanks to this comment, I’ll go to therapy, start doing mindfulness meditation, start going to church on Sundays, and become vegetarian.
Thanks for your contribution
There is no “authoritarian side” of the spectrum, the question is which class should have authority, the working classes or capitalists. Secondly, I have never seen anyone on Lemmy.ml or Marxists otherwise speak of their parents when explaining why they support Marxism.
They are weirdos, just add to blocklist and move on.
It’ll be sad to see you go.
“Top 10 lies the USA wants you to believe. You won’t believe #1!”
Then provide a counter-argument. You’ve been accused of seeking to replace one authoritarian regime with another and your only response is “nuh-uh, propaganda”. If you can’t articulate what you want, why you want it, and and why you believe it’s not what the people opposing both you and the current regime offer, how are you ever going to achieve momentum to build the system you seek?
Then provide a counter-argument.
Come on dude… this is not a good faith argument and not worth my time. “Why protest bombing their schools when they hang gays?” JFC…this is an absolute troll post.
how are you ever going to achieve momentum to build the system you seek?
I’m sorry, what have you done lately? I’ve fought with Proud Boys, I’ve marched with strikers and donated to mutual aid support, I help get progressives and socialists elected to local positions, I fight against ICE and am active in rapid response teams, I fight for LGBTQ+ and immigrants and minorities, I fight for a free Palestine, I’ve marched with teachers unions, etc
What organizing have you accomplished?
You got called out because instead of providing a good faith argument in favor of your belief you just posted some snide remark. I pressed you to provide any sort of substance and you accuse me of being unworthy of your time?
This is an anonymous forum for the sharing of ideas and conversation. Anyone can post a laundry list claiming radical actions, but there’s no proof. Nobody knows who you really are, nobody knows if what you say is true, and there’s no way to prove it because unless you’re going to post a lot of irrefutable personal information online it’s just talk. Personally, I give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word that you do engage in those actions, but I could claim I’ve aided and abetted arson at a fur warehouse, doxxed an animal researcher and harassed them to the point they’ve had to move to a different state (then did it again), lived in an Occupy encampment for months through the winter, and beat a bonehead with a lock and chain outside a punk venue while getting a knife to the abdomen in response. Could be true, could be bullshit; it’s the internet.
Anyone can organize. The Proud Boys organize. I wasn’t asking for your organizational resume, I was asking for what the philosophical goals of your organization are. Why is what you seek to achieve not what OP accused you of authoritarianism? And now, additionally, why is it that so often when pressed to provide an explanation of those beliefs do people resort to “troll post”, “bad faith”, “not worth my time”, and non-sequitur replies? You are probably correct in the assumption that your reply won’t change my belief, but that doesn’t mean it won’t provide insight into how another person thinks that may influence future interactions or contemplation from myself or one of the many people on this forum that read it.
I ain’t reading all that. Free Palestine.
Is this why they call you silentjohn, because when pressed for a defense of your beliefs you refuse to answer and instead drop hashtag grade slogans? No wonder we’re losing to the fascists, the commies can’t even defend the philosophy they stand for.
No wonder we’re losing to the fascists
I repeat: What organizing have you accomplished?
Blocked.
I repeat, anyone online can claim organizing because it’s anonymous. You’ve been challenged to explain the philosophy behind what you’re organizing for.
I just think they’re neat
But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.
Our glorious leaders. Their barbaric dictators.
Watching anime is a crime.
UK, EU, & US are getting closer to this every year.
uhm… no.
- United Nations doesn’t care much about rights of people being sent to slaughter against their will at genocide scales, but does care a lot about “anime promoting bad gender stereotypes”
- Visa and Mastercard have started a great crusade against anything involving anime culture
- You can get arrested for having a slightly suggestive loli drawing on your phone (read what category 3 means, it’s easily most of official Monogatari or Nagatoro character arts and posters)
I’m not collecting this, so links are not of best quality, it’s just something I could quickly find. But if you pay attention, you will find stuff like this happening almost every week.
- a lot of manga/anime DO have despicable stereotypes in them, but so do many other things which are still completely legal.
- corporations being fascists isn’t anything new and they are also US corporations, so you are still generalizing a bit too much. also manga/anime move tons of money and corporations love money, so not gonna happen.
- lmao I knew we would get to lolis here and, brace yourself, while I don’t think people should be jailed because there is no harm caused to minors, I still consider it pedophilia and it should require some kind of action, like for example requiring the person to have psychological treatment or something like that. that being said manga/anime isn’t just lolis (luckily) so, again, you are generalizing quite a lot.
it should require some kind of action, like for example requiring the person to have psychological treatment or something like that
Do you also think lgbtq people and furries need psychological treatment?
so you compare belonging to lgbtq+ to being a pedophile?
I see you haven’t tried thinking about it critically even for a second. Seach “Piper Perry” and think who is closer to resembling a real underage person: an average “petite” pornstar, or an average anime “loli”. Yet somehow “underage looking” anime characters are always claimed to be “pdf” taste while “underage looking” petite pornstars are only claimed to be “pdf” taste in Australia, famous for calling even smaller than size 3 breasts a “pdf” taste.
first, I don’t care about what you think is worse.
second, being attracted to little girls, even if drawn, is LITERALLY pedophilia.
the fact that there is pedo bait in porn makes another valid point for my thesis that manga/anime will never be illegal since that kind of porn is decades old and I also linked you an article about that guy arrested (and discharged) for lolis pics that further proves my point.
I also notice you avoided my question, but I take it as you regretting the comparison between lgbtq+ and lolis/furries.
Just block all .ml instances and move to something not lemmy based. Piefed is good. Plus blocking and entire domain fork thing, whatever you call these, is as easy as one click.
This is the way.
If you don’t like ml, just block them and leave lemmy.
Why exactly is leaving Lemmy necessary? I blocked the .ml instances, but I’m content with Lemmy for the rest
Because Lemmy itself is developed by the same folks who run .ml instance. Luckily there is piefed and mbin, which are compatible.
Piefed is a 1 to 1 replacement with access to the same content.
The lead lemmy developer has some u n usual political ideologies which are incompatible with my own.
The lead lemmy developer has some u n usual political ideologies which are incompatible with my own
Ooh, interesting. Do you also leave buildings whenever someone plays Michael Jackson?
What a silly thing to say.
Firstly, it’s classic, textbook whataboutery.
Secondly, I’m struggling to remember the last time I would have been anywhere that would have played Michael Jackson.
Finally, you don’t seem to understand the basic concepts of approval, support, and patronage. The existence of alternatives is critical
- I may not like my government, but I can’t just flip to another one so I’ll vote accordingly but pretty much go about my life
- I don’t particularly like a lot of mozilla’s decisions in the last several years, but chrome & friends is worse. All I can do is use a soft fork. Still using a soft fork but at least not supporting firefox directly.
- I don’t align well with desalines, and given the ready availability of alternatives, I can switch away without issue.
Oh, well. Nice to meet you, I guess. I hope you have a good day
Just because we block your instance, doesn’t mean we cannot interact with each other in communities on other instances!
Oh this is actually eye-opening. Thanks for explaining it. Had no idea.
It still feels sad and frustrating, but it feels a little less sad and a little less frustrating
And umm yeah nice to meet you
.ml Is made by and ran by Marxist-Leninists.
Marxist-Leninism being an entirely made up bullshit ideology from Stalin to paint any and all actions he committed as “communism” or “progress to communism”.
Its also the adopted “ideology” of every self proclaimed communist state such as China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc. Any contradictions of the ideology between how these states practice it is brushed off by M-L fans as “Marxist-Leninism with <INSERT COUNTRY> characteristics”.
To a M-L fan, none of the core principles of communism actually matter, and are never actually pursued. They don’t care about::
- Proletariat ownership of the means of production
- Elimination of the system of Capital
- Proletariat rule of society
And both hilariously and bafflingly, they will point to what benefits a respective M-L country has as “proof” that that country is following or pursuing communism, even if that country blatantly shows it refuses to adopt those big three above. They also blame the West, specifically the USA for those faux communist countries failing to achieve communism.
I.E. M-L fans fall for bread and circuses very easy as long as they’re told its a communist bread and circus
So TL;DR, .ml’s are Marxist-Leninists who don’t actually care about socialism or communism and are voluntary NPC propaganda machines for authoritarian regimes that abandoned a pursuit of communism long ago.
my favorite part was when you pointed out corruption and capitalism so rife in every country that is supposedly communist, they say it’s ‘necessary for the transition’… right.
some of them are still under the delusion that Russia still a ML state…
necessary for the transition
Eerily similar to the MAGAs who are happy to suffer the “temporary” pain of tariffs today, since it’s going to “Make Us Great” in the ill-defined future
Or the Brexiteers convinced that the sunlit uplands are just around the corner of the “short term pain” of abandoning the UK’s closest and largest trade partner.
Fucking morons, happily led around by their prejudices.
“With every mistake, we must surely be learning” -George Harrison
There’s a reason M-Ls are called “tankies” and “red fascists”.
They just simply are. They are fascists in Che Guevara t-shirts.
Do anybody care about anarchist/liberal opinion about MLs? ML ideology defeated nazis and has changed landscape of the planet, your ideology is cringe and non existent, keep seething. ML is a science and it will always exist
Do anybody care about anarchist/liberal opinion about MLs?
I care more about their opinions on MLs than MLs’ opinions on anything
ML ideology defeated nazis
No, it didn’t. Defeat of the Nazis was a collaborative effort between allied nations and factions of varying ideologies, mostly liberal, one made up (Marxist-Leninist)
Actually, you can credit MLs (especially as its OG was in charge at the time), with severely weakening the Soviet Union with massive purges (including of the military), famine of Ukraine, complete fumbling of preparation for war, and the Nazis almost reaching Moscow until Stalin’s generals begged him just enough to fuck off and let them do their jobs.
Oh, and let’s not forget the alliance MLs made with the Nazis to take Poland together. Their first instinct was alliance with Nazis. That only changed after Operation Barbarossa.
and has changed landscape of the planet,
Yeah, it caused irreparable damage to the communist movement by appropriating it for fascism that pretends to be communist.
your ideology is cringe and non existent, keep seething.
- What is my ideology? Do inform me and provide evidence.
- Psychological projection that rivals your average MAGAt
ML is a science and it will always exist
FUCKING
LMAO
ML wouldn’t even cut it as an art, let alone a science. But I bet the rest of the 13 year olds in your discord server thought that line went hard.
I care more about their opinions on MLs than MLs’ opinions on anything
Ofcourse you care about opinion of CIA and global capital ideology
No, it didn’t. Defeat of the Nazis was a collaborative effort between allied nations and factions of varying ideologies, mostly liberal, one made up (Marxist-Leninist)
Such a shameless downplaying of sacrifices of soviet people. 80% nazis were killed on eastern front by the red army. Liberals suffered little to no damage in WW2. It was collaborative, sure but the biggest contributors by far were soviets.
Actually, you can credit MLs (especially as its OG was in charge at the time), with severely weakening the Soviet Union with massive purges (including of the military)
Debateable to say red army got weak due to purges, alot of counter revolutionaries were purged.
famine of Ukraine
not intentional
complete fumbling of preparation for war
Who told you that? stalin tripled size of red army in 2 years following the MR pact and shifted industries towards east, they were preparing but they just didnt have enough time.
Stalin’s generals begged him just enough to fuck off and let them do their jobs.
Lie.
alliance MLs made with the Nazis to take Poland together
No, it was a non aggression pact
Yeah, it caused irreparable damage to the communist movement by appropriating it for fascism that pretends to be communist.
I mean no other form of communism has ever been tried and people like you have played whatever the establishment say about communism, the global capital will obviously defame communism, it has done since century but so called people of left has played major role in spreading that narrative too. No other form of communism being tried results to no failures and no challenge to the global capital or status quo, so you can just keep blaming the tankies while the status quo isnt threatned at all. ML is still the morst popular far left ideology, theres a reason for it.
What is my ideology?
A radlib or democratic socialist, mamdani AOC type.
Psychological projection that rivals your average MAGAt
There is big world outside US politics, get some help.
ML wouldn’t even cut it as an art, let alone a science.
lol
But I bet the rest of the 13 year olds in your discord server thought that line went hard.
A lot of such parties made by 13 y.o. are at the forefront of communist movement while all you do is larp online
So … fascists who idolize rapists
che was a rapist? wow thats news to me
Isn’t that all fascists tho?
Can you guys ever think out of your american chauvinist mindset? Marxism Leninism exists for more than a century, it has nothing to do with MAGA and have hundreds of pages of theory and have been applied in real life multiple times, atleast think, its crazy how stupid you people are.
some of them are still under the delusion that Russia still a ML state…
Literally no sane ML thinks that, russia is a liberal bourgeosie state
A note on my biases: I am a leftist. I am generally “anti-authoritarian”, but I have read some theory and listened to enough commentary to understand why folks are pro-authoritarian (and why Authoritarian is a label only applied to enemies of american hegemony). I am on .ml - which I don’t think matters, anyone’s account can be anywhere - fediverse, baby.
Lemmy.ml is a website hosted on a server. Why do its mods and some users hold those beliefs?
Many of those people are communists. Opposition to american hegemony is the main reason, or critically supporting other actually existing socialist states. They may think China isn’t perfect, but they’re attempting socialism and are standing up to the US and have the best shot at success. In the case of North Korea, they may think that attempt at socialism is genuine and much of the bad stuff they do is falsified or exaggerated for propaganda or just be giving critical support to a country that has been destroyed by the US via war and sanctions.
Or, in the case of Russia & Iran, they have stood in firm opposition to American hegemony, military bullying, etc. even though they are not Communist/Socialist. So, even though they do a lot of bad things and don’t have socialist values, they are a lesser evil than America. For Russia, them pushi g back against NATO is seen as a direct war against the advance of global capital, even though Russia is capitalistic and fascistic (much like a weaker version of the US).
In all of these cases, when a person supports these governments, they are not really saying “Country good”. They are saying “I critically support Country in opposition to American hegemony and global Capital”. There’s a lot of memes and jokes, and some people just really support Russia and NK uncritically - humanity is a rich tapestry - but that’s the gist of it.
Now a question for you: How does a democratic country stand up to American hegemony?
Given the US’ massive power and history of destroying socialist movements with tremendous violence (military and economic), can a country maintain its status as a real democracy without the US:
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covertly funding extremist groups to coup the democratic government (Iran),
-
committing direct election tampering to elect a pro-US party (Venezuela),
-
launching proxy wars to murder their people (Vietnam, North Korea),
-
destroying the country’s economy with sanctions and completely disconnecting them from global trade - causing mass starvation and poverty (North Korea, Cuba)
The answer is that without a country capable of standing up to the US, they do not. These countries that still have socialist goverments have to hold on to power in a world where US hegemony is a fact.
The problem is that “critical support” effectively boils down to affirmative defense for being a hypocrite, and the entire framework has literally nothing to do with any particular economic system or theory of statecraft. It’s literally just being mad about the cold war in a very weird way which insulates them from self reflection. It’s the exact baggage which keeps leftist ideas marginalized in most of the world.
It’s no accident that .ml is banned in China. Even the world’s most ostensibly successful socialist state understands that this tankie extremism is not helpful.
The answer is that without a country capable of standing up to the US, they do not. These countries that still have socialist goverments have to hold on to power in a world where US hegemony is a fact.
Maybe a naive question but is there no way to have a country that stands strong against the US and its interference without being repressive/authoritarian against your own people? What’s the point of being a socialist dictator for many years/decades if you’re not allowing the people to gain collective control of the land/resources/means of production/etc. for their own benefit?
I think the trouble is that “freedome of speech”, “freedom of expression”, etc. can be and are weaponized by colonial/hegemonic forces.
But, that said, that’s why I am not 100% supportive of this view. Possibly naïvely on my end, I think those sorts of freedoms are important not only for individuals but also as a check on state power. That said, I see how manipulative the US state department can be - and for that matter how manipulative foreign govts have been to the US - especially in recent election cycles… so I think it is a double edged sword.
That’s part of the reason I am also not a full blown anarchist/libertarian socialist. I can see the value in centralized state power when it comes to defending the state and people
What’s the point of being a socialist dictator for many years/decades if you’re not allowing the people to gain collective control of the land/resources/means of production/etc. for their own benefit?
The point is you’re making that up. Example: USSR.
The USSR reduced inequality to the lowest levels in history, redistributed the land to the peasants from the nobility and the landowners, guaranteed healthcare for everyone for free, free education to the highest level, guaranteed employment and abolished unemployment, guaranteed housing (at an average cost of 3% of monthly income), high quality public transit at affordable prices, heavily subsidized basic foodstuffs, and arguably most importantly, LITERALLY DESTROYED NAZISM saving tens of millions of lives in the process.
Did the system have mistakes? Of course it did, and you won’t find richer criticism than within communist circles, because people actually read about the topic instead of getting our information from the CIA. But despite its flaws, it was still the most liberating and anti-imperialist project in human history, it uplifted hundreds of millions from literal destitute poverty under tsarist autocracy and these people gave themselves all of this progress, importantly, without exploiting the global south.
How can you hate in 2026 the main system that has shown itself capable of facing and destroying fascism?
Socialist countries are generally more liberating for their working classes than oppressive, hence high public support, but necessarily curb absolute freedoms such as those of capitalists.
Thank you for sharing and clearly being one of the people able to hold two ideas in their head at the same time, even when the ideas don’t jive.
opposition to American hegemony and global Capital
Everybody who feels this way should be celebrating Donald Trump. He’s almost finished a job in 1 year that many thought would take generations.
I think they don’t completely diverge. I am sympatetic to this viewpoint, I just don’t fully endorse it. I think as leftists we should be generous to other leftists and their ideas.
Some do feel that way. Others feel that he isn’t a strong departure from where we were already heading. I think accelerationism is bad and we should never put ourselves in a position where fascism wins. Fascism needs to always be playing defense until it is totally defeated. Especially when it supports american hegemony, genocide, global poverty, etc.
“As a leftist” lol yeah good one that.
Oh, the old Whatabout the USA (/west).
Nah, historical communism is fascist (so URSS, China, NK. Russia is just a dictatorship nowadays).
Socialism and fascism are entitely different, both in theory and historically. In socialist countries, the working classes are in power and public ownership is the principal aspect of the economy, while fascism is the violent assertion of power in capitalist countries to prevent the working classes from taking power.
Assuming you’re good faith, I really just don’t think it’s that simple. There’s also no whataboutism. If you had read and engaged with the OP and my comment, you’d see OP was directly comparing these countries to the West, which notably does include the US. My comment does the same, because I am engaging with the OP.
I’d recommend looking into the history of fascism if you want to learn what makes a country fascist. There’s many different viewpoints, and some do define fascism in a way that would capture what you’re saying and exclude the US. I don’t think those are very good definitions - they usually say “fascism is when dictatorship”, basically.
Others use definitions that explicitly tie fascism to particular ideological views (specifically views held by fascist Italy and Germany) like anti-semitism or anti-communism. That’s probably too prescriptive and excludes basically any government that is not Italy or Germany in the 20s-40s.
You can see a good summary in the wikipedia article caleld “definitions of fascism”. You’ll see there are many definitions of varying quality and historical accuracy. The best definitions, in my opinion, focus on traits that capture the governmental structure of fascist states that make them different from non-fascist states. That includes economic and structural points.
I think we can use a tighter definition of fascism. Fascist governments have these traits:
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privatization of public goods (that’s a hallmark of fascism, they literally invented privatization in Germany in the 30s, and maybe actually Italy in the 20s)
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some sort of in-group supremacy dynamic (racial in the case of Germany & Italy)
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extreme nationalism & militarism
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suppression of democratic groups (e.g. trade unions)
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a government characterized by state-directed autarky, with production organized into government-sponsored cartels. (This is why privitization is important: that’s what makes this possible)
So, does the USSR have some of these characteristics? Sure. Of course. Modern day China, too. And the US & Russia. But to be fascist, a government needs to do a few of these things at once - it needs to have the economic and structural factors that distinguish fascism from other forms of government.
Lol what a wall of useless text to just try to wry away the soviet union(et al) away from fascism, like they were not as bad even if “technically” they were not fascists.
What a stupid take too, they were competing to be the worst and the soviets won, they murdered and oppressed more people.
Yeah, not good faith afterall. Learn to read, I guess.
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They’re right, you’ve got nothing
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Idk man. I don’t believe in any of that I’m just chillin.
yeah I see more posts about what lemmy.ml folks are like than experience such myself. Im a bit instance blind though ask I also just hang and just block folks if they are too annoying. I don’t need to get upset and sing from the rafters how bad they or their instance is. Ok I do bitch about the guy where I had to block like over a dozen alts but he was like pretty annoying.
It might be because this place is so small. A single idiot screaming loudly will take up the whole room.
