Time to popularize Linux phones. I read that the security model is lacking, but especially given that Android is Linux too, it shouldn’t be too difficult to catch up. The EU is also interested in tech independence, so that could be one of the sources of funding. And there are a few viable early projects, like Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish.
There need to be enforced of competition law here. Companies aren’t going to voluntarily support a platform with few users. Users aren’t going to move to a platform without critical apps.
We live in a dystopia were you have to have the banks app to do online banking even on your desktop. You can’t charge your car without an app. You can’t navigate your car without a map app that has traffic information. Etc etc. I want FOSS alternatives to all these, but there isn’t and Google could take even having a FOSS platform at all.
This something we need regulators to fix. It is a politically problem, not a technical one.
America screwing up trust should wake up Europe to dealing with American tech monopolies. Now it’s not something just nerds and economists complain about, it is a geopolitical problem.
Corporations are getting WAY too much fucking power over our personal lives, it’s at critical mass where their power is superseding that of our basic democratic rights.
We all knew it would happen, and here we are. We need to fight the fuck back with everything we’ve got, and coordination and planning is the first step.
There has to be something already happening, where do we sign up, who do we get in contact with? Where’s the team?
Does anyone know or have any leads on that? I have the possibility to devote my life full time to it and I’m feeling like me and many others are not being utilized the way we could and are capable of.
IDK, I’d think the best path forward would be to just fork Android and move on from there. That’s what Graphene OS already does. Just standardize on Graphene OS for everything and get them more devs / resources.
GrapheneOS has strict standards for what phones they support, which is why you can currently only install it on Pixels.
Sailfish is not very alive. Ubuntu Touch too.
But honestly yes. I think the problems are mostly in hardware support.
The political problems driving the push for independence are fairly recent, so the current state is unlikely to be extrapolable.
There are devices using these operating systems that are also gaining popularity, like Jolla, Volla and Fair phone.
Android is not Linux (the OS), it just uses the Linux kernel. That means almost nothing is transferable from one OS to the other unfortunately.
That’s all Linux is though, arguably
The tech companies are doing a great job at making me uninterested in the hottest new phones. I used to follow the news about them and know the tech specs and stuff, because I’m a nerd and gadgets are fun and smart phones in particular are the intersection of SO much technology and engineering. Moore’s law was alive and well during all my formative years, so I am even conditioned to expect the excitement.
But lately, not only have I been ignoring what the big players are offering, I have been ignoring the phone I already have! Instead I have a PC at the end of the couch with a monitor on an arm that s swings right over my lap.
I use my phone pretty much just for music, web browser, Voyager (Lemmy on the go), and occasional texting. When I am at home I will sometimes misplace my phone for hours and just not worry about it.
I have already pushed the megacorp phone + social media experience so far out of my daily life, that if future options for open linux phones are rough around the edges and don’t have tap to pay then oh well I don’t think I care.
It’s much easier to live without the shiny new thing once you see how well your brain does when separated from it. (and you have some loved ones who are still hopelessly addicted to the scroll)
Sometimes I use my phone so little that I only need to charge it every 2-3 days. Nearly everything that it does my PC can do better and not try to lock me in to a dozen different
monthlyweekly subscriptions.PCs are the best, especially the keyboard (I don’t like using a mouse), the shortcuts, and the terminal.
TD;DR
(FOR EVERYONE)
Here is the petition that we all need to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/stop-google-from-limiting-apk-file-usage
(FOR DEVELOPERS or “DEVELOPERS” 😉 )
Here is the form that we need to fill:
(Please UPVOTE this so others can see!)
I’m on the fence with getting a new phone. Should I buy something now, like a Pixel 10 or Fairphone 6 and flash Graphene/eOs on it, or wait for next gen which might have these restrictions?
Sorry to piss off all the Apple shills on here, but sounds like an opportunity to me. I think there’s enough of us that want something better and some traction with Graphene and some Linux options. This should be a spark to ignite some fires. I’m disappointed but unsurpised by this news, but also a little excited about the window of motivation and opportunity this opens.
Honestly, I’m worried. Current Linux options are expensive and or shitty. IDK if Sailfish is still a thing. I can’t use Apple. If I keep taking good care of my not-so-shitty Xiaomi phone, maybe I have a couple more years until I’m pwned.
PostmarketOS seems promising, though.
SailfishOS is still very much a thing and they have a brand new phone on the way. Since it hasn’t been released yet it’s hard to get into specifics, but early interest seems to point in a positive direction at least.
I look forward to LibrePhone coming online. I hope it comes soon …
“Librephone — Free Software Foundation — Working together for free software” https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/librephone
Could you go over what Graphene is for phones? Is it easy to switch to an alternative to android?
Its a version of android OS that can be installed on Google Pixel phones. Its a relatively easy switch if you’re technically inclined, but the device needs to be carrier unlocked.
If it’s just a fork of Android, doesn’t that mean 194 days from now they either need to branch off entirely and write their own code from here on out…
Or…
Never advance the base code?
No. As long as the base remains opensource (AOSP), they can remove the bad parts. Graphene has made numerous contributions to AOSP, I’m confident they can manage that. And if the user base growths, I hope their fundings will follow.
It would be a good thing for the world if AOSP was forked with big resources behind an open project with an open governance. But that needs lot of resources.
I’ll switch in a heartbeat if they support a nonGoogle phone
They’re working on it. Unfortunately most phones have poor security hardware, which is why its limited to Pixels at the moment.
It’s Android with all of the Google removed where possible and sandboxed where not. You can choose to install the Google Play services and use it like any other Android phone or use it without any Google software.
Some things won’t work, namely things like some banking applications and NFC payments, because they require on hardware attestation that Google will not allow Graphene to pass. Essentially everything that isn’t banking/payment related works exactly like any other Android phone.
It is just a secure phone (though you can still install Facebook on it if you want) that is designed around mitigating attacks that could violate your privacy and security.
Very easy to install, you just buy a Pixel directly from Google (don’t buy from the carriers, they’ll be locked). Enable OEM Unlocking in the Developer menu and then plug it into USB and you can install it directly from the Graphene site via WebUSB. It takes about 5-10 minutes, then your phone will reboot (It’ll give you a scary looking screen about not running a Google OS that you’ll see every time it reboots but it’s just informational, it doesn’t affect anything and the system will boot into GrapheneOS in a second or two).
The more complete instructions and WebUSB install process:
What really bugs me about it: The first step from “how to ungoogle your phone” is “go, give money to Google” by buying their hardware.
Remember to contribute to postmarketOS!
Has anyone tried a Murena (/e/os) phone?
I am thinking about it.
I’m doing my part ! Mail send with help from fdroid.
We need alternatives to big tech. They’re reigning in and locking everything they can down, and the states are loving them for it as it solidifies their ability to control us.
They’re kind of already is. It’s the free and open source community.
The problem is phones are actually incredibly impressive pieces of hardware and the fact that we can Mass produce them has diluted that opinion. I’m actually to look into building my own phone and I wanted to have at least some near-flagship specs. I know how to design my own circuit boards and get someone to print them. But acquiring CPUs that perform at least 1/4 as well as Pixels or iPhones is objectively not possible, these companies have deals with manufacturers for exclusive products. And even if you could these chips are so precise you will never be able to figure out the signaling yourself.
Maybe things have gotten better now that we have ai and you don’t need to be any sort of expert in anything you just need to be good enough at decision making problem solving and communicating to acquire the skills and knowledge to work on these chips. And by the time you’ve done all the work and acquired all the hardware you might have spent close to 3 to 5K on a device you could have just bought for $800. All for what, to circumvent privacy breaches that should be illegal in the first place?
And that’s the root problem we’re trying to solve. Another symptom of these companies being able to engage in the bad behavior that they do is that they gain the ability to overvalue themselves. There should be no safety or privacy concern when engaging in the purchase of any device for the same reason that people should not fear food poisoning every time they go to the grocery store.
That’s what the regulators are for. This is a legal issue not a technical one.
But the only underlying cause for why we’re not regulating tech companies is because fear of privacy violations is not reducing market activity. Apparently people are still going to use their phones even if their phones are listening to them having private conversations. Apparently people will still buy shit off of their phones even if their phones are going to use that data to show them ads.
Apparently the harm of your privacy being breached does not hurt enough to prevent you from doing good things.
Now if Android takes away my F-Droid, Tasker and Termux I’m gonna throw a fit. That’s not privacy that’s self-determination, I bought an Android because I can customize it to be as low friction for me as I need, if my phone starts giving me friction then we’re going to have problems.
Europe is slowly working on that. Ironically, Trump’s policies were kind of a blessing to Europe, because it forced politicians to finally start working towards strengthening the independence of the region.
What we need is a good linux phone that is affordable, has hardware that isn’t slow, and isn’t over sold to an annual pre-order.
Sadly, if the first two are true, the third one becomes an issue.
What we need is a large company to see that is a sign of huge pent-up demand. Apparently, HP and Dell are both talking about switching to Linux as their default OS for desktops. Once all the desktop manufacturers find themselves in the business of selling hardware with Linux on it, either mobile manufacturers will copy, like Samsung, or the desktop folks decide to make their product smaller.
What everyone has wanted from the beginning was a desktop in their pocket. The amount of time that no one has produced that despite major demand, and the amount of development that has gone into building any other stack, just feels like willful suppression at this point.
Is there some government somewhere telling large-scale manufacturers that they can’t build something as free and open as a desktop that isn’t at least the size of a laptop? Because it actually takes less technology to make something that’s open than something that is closed. And there is just as much appeal for the consumer to not restrict them.
What we need is a good linux phone that is affordable, has hardware that isn’t slow, and isn’t over sold to an annual pre-order.
That’s not enough, sadly. That phone must support, at the very least, all the national ID and banking software. And that bit might be tricky.
This always gets brought up, and is the chicken-and-egg problem, but only sort of.
Supporting software designed for different platforms is not the phone’s responsibility. It should be the government and bank developers’ responsibility to build software for platforms their citizens and customers use.
Android and Apple do not jump through hoops to run Windows desktop software, for example, and the notion is kind of absurd to begin with. Yet this argument is used for Linux smartphones all the time.
Some of this also applies to people without phone / with dumbphone.
Android apps do solve a lot of UI problems a that are unique to the phone interface. If only Linux could run APKs. Oh wait, it can. Linux can run anything.
It’s a kind of “yes, but actually no” situation.
Way back when, smartphones were a relatively new thing. Nobody gave a crap, so building a new OS that had similar capabilities to the competition was easy. We had a bunch of those over the years.
However, every new OS means new architecture, every architecture means developers having to take it into account when building apps.
Eventually, the smartphone market essentially defaulted to Android and iOS - long gone are Windows Phone, Blackberry OS, and a dozen others.
They didn’t die off because they somehow had to - they died off because they couldn’t keep up with feature parity with Android and iOS.
Nowadays, everything is being made for these two OSes. And by “everything” I mean things that are actually crucial to people - banking apps, ID apps, train ticket apps, parking lot apps - things that they either cannot replace with “not in a smartphone” solution, or can, but it would force them to juggle cards and papers.
Any new OS coming in must take that into account. If Linux comes to mobile phones but can’t run national ID apps or banking apps, it will have a market share of maybe 1% - the hardcore fans, and the “technological preppers” who are always anonymous, always off-grid - and that’s that. No users further users will switch, and because no users switch, no developers will take it seriously enough to make their apps work on it.
Windows Phone is a great example of this. At its height it had around 20% of the European market share. And what happened? Snapchat (massive at the time) and Google actively worked to undermine and destroy it, because they knew that - in the long run - it’ll be cheaper than having to hire a third group of developers. With 3rd party alternative apps being constantly blocked, the OS eventually went down to sub 5% in its biggest market, and sub 1% in the US, and Microsoft finally pulled the plug.
An OS coming in without critical app support won’t ever get to even 1% of market share in any region larger than “local Linux fanclub”.
Those who have the expertise should start contributing and working more on Linux for mobile. Postmarket has made great progress it just needs more manpower
What kind of roles do they have for people who don’t know how to code? I’ve considered helping translate things before, but my languages are among the most popular, so it’s almost always already translated.
You should checkout their contibuting guide. There are many ways to contribute as non programmer.
This is why we should use things like GPL.
You can put this on a Nothing CMF Phone 1 btw.
You can also buy it preinstalled on a fairphone through Murena’s website. And the bootloader is locked.
I understand installing e/os yourself sometimes gets you stuck with an unlocked bootloader. I have no idea if that’s true for Nothing phones, but thought I’d post up an alternative for those concerned about that.
I don’t understand why most people consider that having the bootloader locked is so important. You’ll get a terrifying warning message when you start your phone. But without a physical access to your phone and your password, no one can do anything.
Banking apps and some authenticators won’t work on a phone with an unlocked bootloader.
True, bank are using stupid rules sometime. I had a revolut account before switching to /e/os deleted it because of this. This was not my main account and I dont have issue with the other bank apps, so I can understand the problem. That said when you are switching to a custom you’ll always have some limitations you just have to know were you set the bar, and this is really personal choice.
The only response I’ve seen so far from F-Droid is that they’ve put up a banner to Keep Android Open. Has there been any kind of plan for next steps?
They responded to it when it first came up 4 months ago. I’ll paste my appropriate comment from that time.
The f-droid team spoke to that in a recent post. The post basically said that if that change isn’t stopped on a government level there’s no way for them to continue working. They didn’t mention roms.
Edit for the link: https://f-droid.org/en/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html
Everyone is talking about getting a fairphone and whatnot but I’m concerned about the open source apk communities shutting down since the market share and interest is killed by this.
My main issue is losing YouTube ReVanced. I refuse to pay for Premium! Especially to one of the wealthiest companies in the world!
So, does it mean that degooglized android phones will suffer as well?
Not yet, but surely AOSP distros are in the crosshairs next if they’re not already.
How do I "uncertify"y Android device? Install a fork I guess. Shame it’s not as easy as installing a new OS on the desktop.
Problem then becomes that banking, streaming and other apps won’t work because root == security issues (according to the companies who push towards a more closed system). Completely stupid. Like saying that having admin or root rights on your desktop poses such a huge security issue that you cannot login to your bank. Furthermore, if you do root your phone, then you should be comfortable tinkering with technology and understand the potential dangers that such an endeavour might present.
I’m a software freedom enjoyer so I don’t have most of those types of apps already (only Discord… which I hope friends ditch soon).
When I looked into installing a new OS it needed some program or use Android Studio which had it. However, the AS binary demanded I agree to an EULA beyond the “open source” license I was expecting. Whatever I needed it couldn’t find an up to date method of compiling it myself.
(Fairphone 5)
I could live without banking etc. on my phone - has become a habit. Also, android auto is a must for me, unfortunately. Because of the complicated process of getting approval from governmental bodies when implementing technology for cars (safety stuff mostly) I doubt we’ll see any foss alternatives any time soon. Could be wrong - Fisker Ocean cars have a great community that mods the software, but probably wouldn’t have happened if Fisker didn’t go bankrupt.
