You must log in or # to comment.
Guys, take lessons, take lessons!
For what. To utilize all the rail lines in my city to grill.
Excuses incoming in 3, 2, 1…
“But, but, but the us country is huge. We can’t be expected to protest about something all the way over there…”
“But, but, but, wait for the midterms. We’ll sort it then.”
“But, but, but, the protests are gaining steam now. It’s not easy to coordinate these things and we need time…{also we’ll conveniently ignore you when you point out that we live in a world of instant communication and that protests and strikes were coordinated decades ago when we didn’t have today’s technology}”
Here in Minnesota we’ve still been protesting every week…
Glad to hear - we don’t hear about it as much up in Canada lately. The news cycle is always desperate to keep up with whatever the orange buffoon is fucking up next
Oh yeah. That’s true. The news really dropped off once the federal government “pulled back” ICE. But they’re still doing the same shit. Still kidnapping. We’re still documenting and doing our stuff.
“But, but, but the us country is huge. We can’t be expected to protest about something all the way over there…”
Oh, is all of Europe protesting in unity when protests are happening in Paris? i must have missed that.
Not at the moment. But that’s mainly because other countries shouldn’t really be invading each other over domestic issues!
However there was a huge ‘protest’ about 90 years ago when a useless dictator tried to overtake a massive part of the world. You really should look up history about it and see how they tackled that dictator, they didn’t have today’s technology and that ‘protest’ spanned a huge area.
It’d be very helpful, though that does require you putting a bit of effort in…I mean… What is a shitty little protest in Madrid gonna do to Brussels? You are comparing apples to oranges.
Protesting local matters, like French people being pissed about French shit makes sense. The French understand their power structure well.
Protesting continental matters is considerably more tricky, because of the distance involved.
Comparing all of the US to all of Europe is an apples to apples comparison.
And you see how well the anti isreal genocide protests are going… So appreciate you making my point for me.
Protesting in Houston does fuckall to Washington in the immediate.
True…
You really get involved in France, if you want it or not. Great for democracy IMO.
I mean in a certain sense they are a bit true, the French protested for so long that Paris has created the Rue in order to have some control over the crowds
The rue?
I don’t know the exact name but it’s these large streets
Boulevards? Grand boulevards?
I’m confused because “rue” in French is literally “street” in English 😁.
Yeah those
It’s a sauce used for thickening, but that’s not important right now
With regard to point 3, ‘today’s technology’ is very much a double edged sword. Yes, you can communicate instantly but surveillance has modernized just as much.
As reductive as it sounds, I think part of the issue is it happens all the time in other countries because it happens all the time in other countries. The connections to each other already exist. The networks already exist. All the instant communication in the world doesn’t make a lick of difference if you have no idea who else to call. At this point, I feel like that’s the real benefit of protests. You gotta meet like minded people somewhere to get any real momentum and third spaces are pretty fucking dead.
I don’t think the issue is necessarily a lack of will to organize now, I think the issue was a lack of will to do so years ago. Hell, decades ago for that matter. So now the people that genuinely do care have to build their entire network from the ground up while under heavy surveillance which yes, is going to be fucking slower.
You can’t do that in USA. You don’t have the public transport infrastructure.
I just thought of how that would look on the San Francisco cable car tracks. Fast sausages.
Ahhh but many cities and towns have some sort of rails in the streets, and bonus: they’re not being used!
Yeah but they’re all filled in and broken.
I would like to see the rest of the comment about “climate accords polar bears”, please.
Yeah same I’m curious now.
I found those on a 💩website https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/climate-paris-2015-polar-bear.html?sortBy=relevant
But we need to know what were the bears doing!
…i see soiled groins…
Dying from climate change 🙁
Hero, thank you
Do French protests always follow tram tracks? Otherwise, it seems like you could just use normal wheels.
If I just saw the picture and I knew it was a protest, I’d have figured that these people work for the tram and are protesting the tram company.
Are their tram rails powered? If they are, it could be using that power to cook while moving. I assume they aren’t, at least not the rails but maybe overhead power, but it would be cool.
They are not powered.
Tram lines are not powered, that would be a huge safety hazard. Most tram systems use power lines that run above the tracks.
And is some more eastern countries (like mine) would make it to easy to steal electricity ;]
In some places they are powered. It’s generally much more expensive to do safely so it’s only done in historic places where overhead wires would ruin the place.
I know It’s the case in the centre of Reims for example.
They don’t specifically follow the tram tracks, but in major European cities, tram tracks are simply everywhere. As the route of the protest has to be registered in advance, it’s very easy to plan for this.
With standard wheels on the barbecue, it would be far too bumpy to barbecue properly. And the risk of everything tipping over is 100 times greater.
I think it’s a brilliant solution.
the route of the protest has to be registered in advance
Wow, that’s dystopic. Very “you protest because I allow it” vibes. Nice for emergency services though
Registering a protest in advance is standard practice in the US and Canada, too. Cities can and do enforce basic rules for crowd control, rerouting traffic, etc. For example, you might be allowed to organize a protest in a public park during daylight hours, but if you do it at 2am in the streets of a residential area the cops are going to arrive and shut you down.
https://www.aclu-wa.org/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-guide-protests/
It’s not dystopian, just democratic. Any democratic constitution reserves a very universal right to protest. You still have to notify the police beforehand so that they can reroute traffic. Of course the police also ensure that the protest doesn’t turn violent, but first and for all they provide for the safety of the protesters.
Lol you can definitely tell you’re European XD
The police here in the US are nothing like that. If you call the police to let them know you’ll be protesting you’re just asking for trouble, it’s like taunting them before trying to fight them. I wouldn’t be surprised if they show up at your house to harass you, or somehow set it up to where your planned protesting spot is either unavailable or otherwise impossible to use. They’ve been known to arrest people for giving water to the homeless, those waiting in line to vote, protestors, and pretty much anyone the government or specific officers dislike. It’s commonly stated here in the US that short of a murder occuring, there is no good reason to call the police unless you want a murder to occur.
Normal wheels would be much heavier to push. Steel wheel on steel rail is basically zero effort, you just have to plan your protest accordingly^^
Main thing that keeps me from fitting in in England is how much I love the French. 🇫🇷
We luv you too m8
I love the French because every other country I have been to besides France where I have attempted to speak the language, people are super appreciative of my efforts, even if I’m shit.
Not so in France. There’s often an air of arrogant expectation, because making an effort to speak French isn’t considered going above and beyond, but is expected (and if your French is mediocre, then you are not meeting that expectation). This isn’t always as abrasive as I make it sound here, but it is a sharp contrast to my experience in other countries.
I weirdly like this though. It’s a reflection of how British people travel about the world with a default assumption that many people will speak English. I have a Norwegian friend, for example, who said that when he was travelling, he was grateful that he knew English, because there would often be some people who could speak at least some English in most places he went. Attempting to speak French in France reminds me of how much privilege I have when travelling, because the French are as stubborn about expecting people to speak French as the English are about English. But the French are mainly like this within France, whereas English folk carry their expectations everywhere with them.
France feels like our sibling — we have a tumultuous relationship that could easily give the impression that we hate each other, but it’s far deeper than that. One of my interests is fashion history, and it’s so funny how many instances there are of a trend originating in France that people in Britain take notice of and want to emulate — in part because it is French: trends that are developing in a different cultural context, and are thus exotic and interesting compared to British fashion. Sometimes there’ll be attempts to stop trends from crossing the channel, but that just makes them seem cooler. If you want an example of one such trend, this video from Abby Cox is great.
But the cultural exchange happened in the other direction too; sometimes a trend would start in Britain and slowly diffuse over to France. Stuff like this is why I see the French as being our family. For better or for worse, we are joined together by history.
What’s funny that if you’re a French Canadian, you spend most of your life resentful that English is everywhere. Quebec has laws doing everything possible to try to prevent English from becoming a major language in Quebec. But, as soon as someone from Quebec goes travelling, they’re probably grateful that they know English because it’s the common language of the world these days.
I grew up primarily speaking English. But, I don’t think I’m too arrogant about expecting everyone else to speak it. I’m always pleasantly surprised when there are signs in English in places where there can’t be that many tourists.
What I did kind-of take for granted wasn’t necessarily English, but it was the Roman character set. When I went travelling in East Asia, I came across Thai script, Korean, Japanese and Chinese. Previously when I’d travelled in other places, if I didn’t know the language, I at least knew the letters. So, I might not have known how to pronounce the name of a place, but I could still read it and match it to the place I was looking for. But, when I was in Japan, I had to try to remember that the stop I wanted was the one where the first symbol sort of looked like a box with some scribbles inside and a lid on top, then the next one looked like a T but with two bars at the top instead of one.
I learned a little Japanese in high school, and it’s a surprisingly easy alphabet to pick up… The actual language is another matter!
Hiragana and Katakana aren’t too hard, but Kanji is another matter, and Kanji is used a lot in the names of mass transit stations, for example.
French language is the original lingua franca, it’s no wonder that if you admit that you don’t speak well yet, they will simply ask “Why not?” It’s probably not as far as we’d expect from the hauteur of English-speaking tourists, we just get our way more often I think. When I took my family to Paris last year I expected to get some of that high-handed treatment, but even out as far as Calais they were almost unfailingly forgiving of my decidedly mediocre attempts. I hope to go back soon, armed with a little more of the language.
In Holland everyone would switch to English immediately after I butchered the greeting in Dutch.
It made it super hard to learn the language
So glad to come to the comments and not find this debunked
I wonder how the terroir affects the barbecue
Do those actually achieve anything? The biggest protests I heard about where the ones against pensions reform and this reform was only delayed when the ruling party failed to form the government several times. It was result of typical politics, not protests.
What I see happening over and over in Spain is:
- Some union announces a strike and presents it demands
- They sit and negotiate with the government
- (optional) They don’t reach an agreement, strike is enacted and services are limited to legally guaranteed ‘necessary minimum’
- They reach an agreement, strike ends.
No protests, no grilling on the tram rails. Just negotiating and using legal leverage. Last one was railway strikes after series of accidents. They reached an agreement before the strike. Unions called it “historic” and won better investment in maintenance and personnel.
So, do the French protest actually achieve anything or does it only look nice in memes? Can someone give some examples of what they won recently?
They achieve a lot less since Macron is in power. He “listen to the street” (to the unions actually) a lot less than its predecessors. The yellow jackets had to go very far, with a lot of victims, just to get a few concessions. Repression is a lot more fierce with a lot of police violence. This had the effect of discouraging a lot of people, protests are generally smaller lately. It makes some think that direct actions is the only way now but not much has happened.
To find national protests with real achievement you’ll need to search before Macron. There were some local achievements lately though. And protest are not done alone, there are usually strikes, negotiations and legal leverages at the same time.
This picture is actually from 2018 I think, so the beginning of Macron as president.
In some cases I think it does help to protest and take to the streets and not only strike. For example striking dock workers and metal factory workers is one thing. Having them march on the capital is another still… There’s definitely overlap between these groups of workers and soccer hooligan groups for example. A large protest of certain groups imply the promise of non-state controlled violence if agreements aren’t reached.
Other case is when the protests is just really really big. A few hundred thousand does work to get the message spread more clearly how ‘willing’ they are to keep striking. While striking and just sitting at home during strike sends rather mixed signals.
It also enforces the “we’re in this together” in the workers.
It all sounds nice in theory but does it work in practice? I’m asking because I really don’t know what the effects are in France. We see a lot of marching but what are the actual results? As I said, the biggest recent protests I heard about were those against pension reform and those didn’t achieve anything. Did they the unions also strike to abolish this reform? From what you’re saying the protests would indicate there was a will to strike and the “we’re in this together” message was definitely there. The government didn’t budge. Did it work in other cases?
One example where I know mass protests worked were coal miners protests in Poland. Any time the government tries to reform the unprofitable mines the mines go to Warsaw, block the streets, burn some tires, punch some politicians if needed and get what they want. This only serves the interest of this very small group and every one else loses. Other groups like teaches and nurses that don’t want to punch politicians never get anything.
In Spain the government is way more scared of big scale disruption over long period of time that one time traffic problems in the capital. You limit the railway network capacity to 60% (legally you can’t limit it more) over couple of days and the whole country feels the pain. You organize a protest in the capital and one city suffers for couple of hours. I wonder how does this compare to France. Do they also strike? Do they achieve anything?
I’m not very familiar with situations in every country ;) A bit in Belgium and Germany. In Belgium it is like the Polish miners: if certain groups are involved, I think the effect is felt in agreements in the end. But that is still what is needed after all: agreements. No union wants to strike forever, there is money to be made after all, striking is expensive for the workers (which is a main reason unions exist at all). Workers and owners share similar goals, don’t forget: work, make money, be wealthy. Strikers generally aren’t disputing that, all they are disputing is how much % of the wealth goes to whom.
If the Metallurgy takes to the street, politicians are scared. If farmers/truckers block highways, politicians are scared. If dockers go to Brussels, they bring fireworks (also literally), politicians are for sure scared of them. These do happen to be some of the best paid ‘low education’ jobs. Is it a coincidence?
The magic is, and it happens rather rare indeed, that all of them strike together, you need the dockers supporting the nurses etc. Unfortunately I think the battle against the pension age is lost everywhere. The EU serves as a divider by the way: we’re always told we need to earn less of pension later or … because “all our neigbouring countries are more competitive in this field!”. Then you tune in to the media in the neighbouring countries: it’s the same fairytale. The capital succeeded in dividing the workers across Europe, unions across EU-inner-borders extremely rarely join forces, and it has become a major weakness of the unions in EU today.
In my experience the general public transport strikes do more bad than good to the workers, for sure in the long run. These strikes are just way to common, general opinion outside the profession is that they are already generously treated for pensions, holidays, etc.
Then there are a few groups of workers… they barely have to announce a strike and they’ll get what they want. One group is the train drivers (not all public transport, just the drivers). Another are the maritime pilots. If these strike, nothing moves. All ships/trains are blocked and the entire economy bleeds like crazy immediately.
But no, I can’t provide you with any concrete evidence of protests actually having forced a better deal than if no protest would have been held. It’s a gut feeling i guess. I don’t think there has been a lot of A/B testing on this, tricky to organize ;) And between countries cultures and striking traditions are just a tad too different to be able to compare it easily.
Protests and labor strikes increase the leverage workers have when negotiating for better compensation. There is no leverage if there is no protest.
One of my favorite examples was a mutiny during WWI where they were fed up with charging to their deaths. The tangible results were the commander got sacked and they didn’t have to charge to their death.
Yes, I even gave concrete example of how rail workers in Spain used this leverage recently.
I’m asking for concrete examples from France. What did they achieve recently? WWI is not recently.
35 hr work week has been maintained https://apnews.com/general-news-96d7f44de4e44f1ebdc7bf86f5e856e4
This law did pass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Khomri_law
Very curious you claim that they maintained 35 hours work week while only posting a link about the protests. It’s like people think that protesting something == getting something.
You seem to be right. I was wrong. I really thought they won that one!
The showing was amazing and inspiring, but if they didn’t win the thing they were fighting for, then we need to learn a lesson from that too. Thanks for pushing back.
How about the gilets jaunes protests? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_protests
The french, specifically, have a long tradition of putting their foot down and refusing to accept what their government is doing. I don’t have specific links discussing it, but I know that occasionally entire major motorways will be shut down because farmers or lorry drivers have blocked them with heavy industrial machines, and they stay that way until those people decide to move. I also know that there’s an entire region (Brittany) where the motorways aren’t toll roads, unlike the rest of France, because every time they try the cameras and toll booths get destroyed.
Originally, the yellow vests protested because of an increase onfuel tax, to finance environmental measures. They got that tax increase to be halted. Also, agricultors regularly protest and get the reintroduction of harmful pesticides. Basically, the only trade-off the government is ready to accept is giving up on ecological progress.
Removed by mod
Yes, but what did they achieve? I know about the protests. The wiki article you linked doesn’t mention any gains.
“Participation in the weekly protests diminished and eventually ended entirely due to the COVID-19 pandemic in France, although minor protests continued after health restrictions were lifted.”
Those were mainly Macron opponents protesting and demanding his resignation. He didn’t resign. They had some other demands but the article doesn’t mention if any of them were realized by the government.
So yes, the protests looked nice in pictures but besides damaging some property, what did they achieve?
They successfully canceled a gas tax raise.
I think it was more of a delay than cancellation: https://www.connexionfrance.com/news/more-drivers-to-pay-higher-pollution-taxes-on-new-car-registrations-in-france/705889
Gas prices went up everywhere anyway. But yes, I guess that was some concession from the government so it’s a good example.
You’ll have to look a decade in the past.
Under former presidents (Hollande, Sarko and Chirac) protests did work.
Now it’s only since Macron that they are less effective as he does not care unless everything is literally burning.
I don’t have examples in mind, I participated in some of them but I was younger and do not really remember the details.
But is it Standard-gauge?
This comment prompted me to check the gauge of my city’s streetcar, and I am happy to report that it is standard gauge as well. Too bad it only goes down two streets so it’s relatively unlikely that a protest would march along it.
(I kinda need a new barbecue anyway, so it’s still a design criterion to keep in mind, just in case.)
Yes, actually.
The real reason they got rid of trams in this country
French people are very serious about 2 things:
La Liberté et La Cuisine
Yeah, you stop believing in the first part when you see what they vote for.
As if they were one homogenous voting block? The reason the French government is in a stalemate is because the people vote for so many different things that no coalition can form a governing majority.
Trying to describe that as “they all hate freedom because of the way they vote” is kinda weird, and quite ignorant.
I don’t think any country can be described so singularly as “what the people vote for”. There’s always a diversity of opinions. Some countries suppress dissension, censor opposition, and only allow certain voting choices (e.g., Russia, China, Belarus, etc.); but even those countries have dissention, the dissention is just kept quiet by the repression and censorship.
But the French? Dissention is part of their culture. Political opposition is alive and well there. So try understanding what you’re talking about before posting something ignorant next time.
The whole country made a big deal about being sad about a nazi dying and you’re talking about political opposition?
Stay deluded.
You’ll have to specify what you’re referring to, and somehow quantify “the whole country being sad” about it.
Otherwise you’re just a troll.
If I can have a sausage sizzle as I’m protesting, I would go out more often.
StoryTime
I once got called out to protest for ‘personal freedoms’. They didn’t explain much further. I get there and its full on anti vaxx. They want their freedom to work without a vaccine. Wish I had the balls to walk away, but I stood there for an hour or 2. (Oh yeah. I’m in Australia, but the guy who invited me posted sympathy for Charlie Kirk. So I’m glad we not talking anymore)
Will never forget that fireman, who probably come back from saving someone’s life (or at least, coming back from saving someone’s property) giving a thumbs down to the protest.
100%, it wasn’t at me directaly, but now 4-5 years on, I still remember him.
can I do a story time WITHIN a story time?
Whenever Violet08 posts, there will be a tonne of comments along the lines of “oh. This account again”.am I recognised here too? I always post a lot after a few drinks, so maybe 1-2 people will recognise a spam post, look up and see ‘oh. Midsized is drinking again’
:::
am I recognised here too?
You don’t ask NSFW questions while posing as an 18yo girl, a bit less memorable
But now you are tagged and I shall remember you
Aspirational goals. Canada did not pick up enough Francais.
We have a whole Quebec political party that’s about not voting for federal elections… Want to protest against the libs or the cons? Vote for the Block!
As an Ontarian I appreciate the BQ. All I’m saying is Quebecois don’t burn nearly as much shit as the French. And the rets of us aren’t doing anything. Having a less capital-compliant part of Canada would be good for all of us.
Whenever the French are protesting something they all seem to end up setting their own cars on fire.
“I’m unhappy about the retirement age being raised by one year, here let me set the fire to this random persons fiat, that will show the government”
Whenever the governments of the US and Canada do anything we can’t even be fucked to do much of anything, so I think shutting the hell up and letting the French do what they do is probably better than trying to mock them for at least trying.
Yeah but we burn the richs’ restaurants too.
Absolutely fantastic. Once you get over the initial chuckle at how novel a concept it is, its a god damn power play.
An army marches on its stomach.
