- cross-posted to:
- videos@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- videos@lemmy.world
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School administrators doing more for public safety than fucking police would.
Great job focusing on the gun (grabbing that arm) and then incapacitation. Lucky this ended this way.
The police wont endanger themselves to save others. They argue in court that they are only there to do paperwork, and that “protect and serve” was just marketing, and was never a promise to do either. Useless bullies. They use their monopoly on the use of force to protect themselves, and thats it.
Its also liability. Doing nothing has been successfully argued in court over and over. If they do things and bad things happen because of it, they can be held liable. I think there are some cops who would definitely jump in there, but i agree that most wouldnt put themselves in that situation.
won’t
I saw one story that alleged a police officer endangered himself to save others. The kind of thing police might want to quantify.
Hmm…
Anyone know if they have tried to quantify how often they put themselves in harm’s way? Some starting point for analysis (removing incidents that don’t meet strict criteria), eventually get to a number: “police endanger themselves less than x% of the time”
Each year the U.S. pigs shoot and kill over a thousand people. They always claim, without exception, that those were dangerous situations (for the police).
In reality, of course many of them were not, and the cops just murdered someone because fuck it, but it’s impossible to know exactly how often that occurs.
A couple hundred pigs die each year, but they don’t break down those numbers. However, reliable data shows that the majority of on-duty deaths are traffic accidents, the majority of those are caused by the pigs themselves, either through carelessness, recklessness, or negligence.
I’ve always fantasized about this, just without the gun
ugh please tackle me Principal Schoemern
Thankfully the gun had no bullets from what is seen in the video. (If you look at the gun you can see it was pulled back and had no bullet to chamber so it stayed locked, this is similar to the action of some guys that have magazine loaded)
The gun was definitely empty when he dropped it; but it looks like there’s shell casings ejected during the struggle. Several land on the floor, bottom of the top camera view. At least one moves along with the gun when it’s kicked away.
He fired it until empty while pinned to the bench.
Thats wretched
… if you read anything on this reports are the principle was shot, what are you even going on about here?
No I didn’t read the reports I watched the video showing it was empty at the time it hit the ground. That really sucks he was shot
The principal was shot in the leg. Also, it looks like the student is squeezing off shots when his hand is pinned. The gun has the slide back when he drops it because that’s what happens when you’ve fired all the rounds.
Absolutely when all rounds are gone that’s true.
(Sadly that means none of the bullets went straight through, which tells me it was likely a 22lr handgun, otherwise we would have seen rounds pierce the back)
Many people state a 22 is most deadly for that simple fact, it often has the power to enter, but not to leave, so it richochets inside of a skull or ribcage causing more damage than immediately exiting
A 22 is a dangerous weapon that can definitely kill somebody and needs to treated according to The Rules just like any other firearm.
What you said about bouncing around inside skeletal structures has no basis in reality, though. I’m a non-gun-nut American with some firearm experience, but my supposed knowledge doesn’t matter in a world where you can watch 100 different youtube channels dedicated to shooting a variety of objects with a variety of calibers.
You might be thinking in the right direction, though, about situations where a bullet does more damage when NOT passing all the way through because it has dumped all its energy into the target along with expanding/fragmenting. Consider what happens when one of those youtubers shoots through water. Usually the smaller handguns like 22 or 9mm get decent penetration while high-powered rifles with multiple times the kinetic energy and momentum fall short of those. But because of the rapid energy dump you get other effects like a high splash.
Many people state a 22 is most deadly for that simple fact, it often has the power to enter, but not to leave, so it richochets inside of a skull or ribcage causing more damage than immediately exiting
This is a myth and one made up by people who don’t know how firearms work. A 22lr is not going to do more damage to someone than a large caliber round… otherwise we’d be using 22lr to fight wars.
It’s why it’s not legal to kill anything but small game with it as well. Because it’s inhumane to try and kill anything bigger than a squirrel with a 22lr.
I didn’t say it would do more damage because it was a smaller caliber, I said it would do more damage because it didnt exit. But you fabricated a scenario to say my statement was a myth.
Pffft, that’s Hitchcock and Scully.
They thought the gunman had come to the school to shoot up the vending machine!!
Weren’t those two shockingly effective when they wanted to be?
Would you look at that, yet another “good guy with a gun” came in to stop the bad guy with a gun…
Fucking sad that the people who routinely save lives in these situations are just normal people risking their own lives, and then you have some assholes advocating for more guns.
Sadder still, is the assholes with the guns are cops too chicken and end up camping outside the school’s, or bullying children in the hopes of making everyone feel as unloved as they were when they were kids.
I’ve seen lots of videos of good guys without guns saving people from bad guys with guns, but I’ve never seen a “good guy” with a gun do jack shit.
I occasionally carry a firearm, but it’s for protecting me or my family against an attacker. Honestly it’s more for if I run across wild hogs than anything. It doesn’t make me an action hero who can charge a mass shooter.
In the event of a mass shooting, the rule is to run. If you can’t run, you hide. If you can’t run or hide, you fight back.
Carrying a gun doesn’t change that. My little pocket pistol is inaccurate, low-capacity, and low power. If I try to use it to fight a mass shooter I’m probably just gonna be putting more bullets in the air while getting myself killed.
Tackling the shooter like was done in the video is a better tactic. Even if you could draw and shoot accurately in the time it takes to run a few steps, the shooter would probably still have time to do damage before bleeding out. Tackling them and taking control of the gun is faster and more effective.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned the guy who shot Charlie Kirk lol. You guys have more class than I do, that’s for sure.
Let’s stay on topic.
This guy is a hero.
What they said is the topic.
It’s rare. Off duty SAS guy did work in Kenya that one time. Saved a bunch of people.
This is the only one I’ve seen. And she’s off-duty military police.
To be fair, once. We’ve seen it once. In all the years of mass shootings. That Texas church where the guy shot the killer from like 25m away while he was moving.
Jesus YouTube tried to delete this from history. Sorry about the Reddit link.
Not just once, it’s happened multiple times. There was also the one at the mall where the good guy was then mistakenly shot by the police, that one time 4 store patrons all pulled guns on an armed robber, those are just the ones that I can recall off the top of my head.
Actually Defensive Gun Use (hereafter DGU) estimates vary wildly, from the CDC (self) reported numbers by John Lott and Gary Kleck (500,000-3,000,000), to the more realistic estimate (based on verifiable police reports, and completely discounting the concept of defensive display) by Harvard of 100,000 DGU/yr.
But in any case, by the lowest estimate we have, DGU still happens at least 100,000 "once"s per year, and more if we count defensive display (though that’s hard to get numbers on so I like Harvard leave it out of the “official” count, it does still happen, and likely more often than bullets actually get fired.)
[for anyone] If you carry be careful for second gunman
Was a good guy once who stalked a gunman (grocery store?). About to save the day, good guy gets hit in the back from the perp’s accomplice :(
-per some YouTube channel on probably defense & safety years ago
I remember that video, yes, always be wary of trailing accomplice(s). Amongst many other things, really, it isn’t always as simple as “have gun.”
I heard a story of someone who was at a gun show and some geniuses thought it would be a good idea to try and grab a bunch of rifles and just run for the doors, and of course about a dozen people drew down on them.
But then, that’s like, proliferated guns at a gun proliferation party preventing guns from being proliferated by a tiny degree more than they would have otherwise, so… that kind of feels like a net neutral, overall.
And importantly, a guy running away.
And a theft, not an assault.
There was a case a few years ago where a good guy with a gun stopped a shooter. The bad guy apparently shot and killed a cop, and reportedly wanted to shoot other cops. The good guy shot & killed the bad guy.
Then the cops showed up and killed the good guy with the gun.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/28/colorado-gunman-police-officer-killed
What evidence do you have that the “”“bad guy”“” did anything wrong?
It happens occasionally, but it’s pretty rare. I heard a story some time back of a gunman who drove up on a birthday party or something, and a bystander shot them.
The rate is far lower than the rate of gun accidents, or even gun homicides though. It’s not an argument for lax gun laws. It just is an occasional side effect that can’t and shouldn’t be counted on.
I think John Oliver did a deep dive and found in the history of shootings, a small handful were stopped by “a good guy with a gun” while a significant number beyond that were stopped by people without guns.
He went further: the good guy with a gun often were used for disciplinary measures (read: send black students to the school resource officer) instead of guarding the place. Not only that, but in school shootings were more violent where there was good guy with a gun.
That’s actually incorrect, the lowest estimate for defensive gun use (by Harvard, only counting verifiable police reports and completely discounting defensive display, the most common form of DGU) is 100,000/yr, while gun deaths including accidents, homicides, and suicides, are ~60,000/ yr. That’s still a difference of 40,000.
Also good to keep in mind, only 45% of Americans even own a gun, and only somewhere around 20% carry it ever, and even less carry everywhere every day. Combine that with many mass shootings taking place in schools which federally ban firearms or businesses which often have “no weapons” signs on the door (which depending on the state can actually be legally binding), with all of that the chances of there being a “good guy with a gun” in the first place are still pretty slim. If he’s a “good guy” even if he brought it he likely left it in the car in accordance with the law and posted signage on the mall (or whatever), and it can’t do any good there.
That’s total bullshit.
Here’s what Harvard actually has to say about guns and it is 100% the opposite of what you’ve described.
My mistake, it wasn’t Harvard, it was Phillip Cook using the NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey) Data. It’s only been 8yr since I read the article, please forgive my indiscretions. In my defense Harvard is also mentioned.
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense
Needless to say I disagree with the disqualification of defensive display categorically, but understand why it would be done for official estimates (though that would mean the official would be purposefully low, by the nature if many of them not having police reports or being one’s word against another even if they exist there’s no real reliable way to collect those statistics, so I think it’s best to leave them out.) Mostly I think it should just be kept in mind that the official estimate is based off of incomplete data and is low, lest we end up with ridiculous estimates like 3,000,000.
And yet still,
Harvardthe NCVS data* (whoops lol) estimates defensive gun use as 40k higher than gun deaths, and that’s with less than 20% of Americans carrying daily. To say it’s so rare it’s a myth is to say all gun death (60k), gun homicide (12k), accidental gun injuries (~1,500) and deaths (~500), are also myths due to rarity. And also the OG Black Lotus card at 1,100 printed.The rate is far lower than the rate of gun accidents, or even gun homicides though.
Is still indeed not true, regardless of if I misremembered just who said that one detail from 8y ago.
Again, your unsourced bullshit is not an actual summation of verifiable data.
It’s just right-wing talking points, dude, with the veneer of pseudoscience.
More guns = more people die from guns. It’s not any more difficult than that.
I mean you can disagree with the accredited crime researcher and the NCVS data he used (it is a move I guess) all you want, but I’ve posted the source where I got my claims, so “unsourced” is verifiably false, it’s right there.
More water = more people drown, it’s not any more difficult than that, ban water.
You can keep posting right-wing jerkoff fantasy as much as you want. Doesn’t change the fact that the guy got his science wrong.
Gun deaths are on average 40k not 60k. We’ve never even hit 50k a year.
Rest what you said is true.
r/dgu subreddit collects all the known good guy with a gun articles as well.
can we please move gun suicides to their own category
Good luck with that. The anti2a groups want those in the same category so that it pumps up the numbers. When 2/3rds (66+%) of your statistic of gun violence is based upon suicide. It’s not as catchy to use.
truth
and gun violence in schools stands fine on it’s own
anyone seeing those numbers should be disgusted enough
This guy vs the entire Uvalde police force
Just another day in a US school.
Except the guy didn’t get to do the pew pew part.
JFC, dude came boiling out of a shadow on the wall.
I had to watch it three times before I saw what the camera angle showed as a barely-there nook in the wall.
This is what heroes do. They run towards the danger, not away.
Well, unless they have bone spurs.
The principal pulled it off he got lucky. All of his attention should have been on that gun. There’s no reason to use a one handed neck.Grab.
All focus is on getting the gun, then worry about the rest.
Next time, feel free to demonstrate.
Fair point!
Yesterday I interrupted a violent robbery. And got lucky too…No gun tho.
Two kids, id guess 13 and 15, jumped a Latino man on his scooter. Pushed him off it. I was 50 ft away w my pit bull taking a walk In a big east coast city. The kids were wearing gym like clothes, looked like no weapons. One was 6ft one was maybe 5ft. They looked like they weighed 90lbs each.
The Latino they jumped was maybe 5ft, poor responsiveness. Was sluggish…maybe drunk, high, or stunned?
I just raised my voice and walked towards them saying, " whats up kids, you got a problem?" And made direct eye contact.
It was a bluff, while I can fight im not going to get closer than 50 ft w my dog. You dont fight when you have your kid or pet with you.
Kids were stunned, i surprised them…and they ran off. Im a big guy 6ft, 250, train in muay Thai and strength training 6 daYs a week. But im over the hill re: age, I dont wanna hurt no one.
I got lucky because no one got hurt. Me included.
Victims name was eduardo, barely spoke a lick of English. Weird day.
I’m sure the principal appreciates your insight and advice and will apply it the next time he has to heroically prevent a school shooting
American hero right there. Those families will never forget what he did for them.
Is the redshirt guy trying to get redshirted? Picking up that gun while police is on the way could easily lead to misunderstandings.
Dude, police had just heard shots. They werent coming in for at lesst like an hour.
Here in Denmark we had a once-in-a-blue-moon shooting occur in the shopping mall called “Field’s”.
Police geared with MP5’s arrived within 10 minutes and barely waited at all storming into the shopping center. Other armed police were actively doing evacuation duty.
A sniper in a helicopter eventually saw the shooter trying to escape the shopping center through a utility door, and he subsequently got caught.
This happened the same year police in America were seen, fully armed, waiting outside a school because it was “too dangerous” to enter.
doesn’t Denmark require national service for two years?
if so, those cops were already better trained than any US cop and it’s unfair to compare them.
Props to this principal. He’s got more stones on him than half the cops in America.
underpaid and still ain’t afraid quote the luda man
Yeah. Cops are paid too much to eisk their lives.
Someone: <installs motif in the middle of the floor> Also Someone: nooo don’t walk on the motif.
Maybe it’s undergoing renovation?
Science and medical had to rush the guy before security even joined the fight.
