Is it normal in the USA to allow the general population to use deadly force? That’s fucked up.
Uuhh… Yeah? Second amendment.
If you went back in time and showed them a modern day assault rifle, they would probably have some opinions about the second amendment.
Lots of ifs/ands/ors/ and buts. Varies by state and generally only under legally defined self defense situations with some judicial discrepancy, mind you it varies by state and some regions are so loose with it that you can just get murdered by going on someone’s property. Which may make sense if you live in the middle of fucking nowhere and give warnings and are a thirty minute drive from another person but there have been cases where shit like that happens in suburbs,.
How’d the USA get to be a nation in the first place?
Hugs and kisses!
Is this just a way to shoot your pregnant mistress for free?
It’s basically an excuse to shoot any woman, anytime, so long as you can conceive of a way to claim that you thought she was seeking an abortion. It would be a prosecutorial nightmare, at best, and open season on women at worst.
No, because that will terminate the pregnancy too. But since people are stupid, that’s how will read it (as the upvotes prove).
It’s about shooting the doctor performing it and arresting women wanting it.
Only if she’s trying to get an abortion
What’s she going to do? Testify she wasn’t?
We should probably try to find the girlfriend of this bill’s sponsor. I’m concerned for her safety.
Only if you leave her brain dead. You kill the baby as well and it’s first degree murder
More accurately: someone raped a 14 year old girl, the pregnancy has become ectopic. The punishment for trying to save her life is worse than the person who raped a 14 year old.
“Republicans hate women”
I think even republicans know that republicans hate women at this point
They’ve never made a secret out of it. Anyone who doesn’t see that lives in denial.
I can’t even… Use of deadly force to save a baby in a mother’s womb? Are you like supposed also do a C-section right there on the spot so that the mother dies but the baby is fine?
Keep in mind, this is deadly force to prevent an abortion. Abortions are only done during the time that child is unviable. Essentially no providers give abortions past 24 weeks. So, even if you use deadly force to prevent an abortion, the baby is pretty much gauranteed to be unable to survive outside the mother at that point. You are then undoubtedly killing both mother and fetus.
Sounds like a fitting addition to the repo men scenario. Sadly this is reality.
Wouldn’t the use of deadly force to prevent the abortion actually aid the abortion?
Look, if they thought things through they wouldn’t be Republicans.
I’m increasingly the opinion that Republicans don’t actually know where babies come from.
I mean Republicans are stupid and all but I think they’re intending for this to be a deterrent. It’s a stupid and cruel deterrent, but it’s probably not meant to somehow kill the woman without killing the baby.
it might not be meant for that, but it will be used to excuse that
essentially through the entire pregnancy people will get to be terrified as all it’d take to legally murder them would be making them look like they wanted an abortion
I’m pretty sure that I saw a depressing statistic about the number of pregnant women getting murdered now. An unfortunate number of men murder their pregnant wives/girlfriends.
Here is the proposed text of the NC state constitutional amendment affirming personhood at conception, then including:
Any person has the right to defend his or her own life or the life of another person, even by the use of deadly force if necessary, from willful destruction by another person.
Here is the NC Dept. of Health and Human Service’s required abortion information describing the state’s abortion laws. They ban after 12 weeks, with exceptions for rape and incest before 20 weeks, and life-threatening anomalies before 24 weeks.
Here from the Raleigh Observer quoting state democratic lawmaker Rep. Julie von Haefen:
Von Haefen said the bill is a distraction from other bills being voted on and passed, including multiple constitutional amendments concerning unions and taxes, at least some of which will be on the ballot for North Carolinians to weigh. She said the amendments “are being used to drive conservative voter turnout.”
And here is my take: NC state republicans use women’s healthcare as a political pawn for pushing anti-worker and anti-tax interests, which neatly encapsulates the US culture war for the past 60 years. This bill will not pass, because it is insane, but it may succeed in its intent: looting the pockets of the people of NC.
If it’s to drive voter turnout, it’s also to keep Roy Cooper from flipping a US Senate seat
Have you met the voters of North Carolina?
This bill will not pass, because it is insane, but it may succeed in its intent: looting the pockets of the people of NC.
how many times have we said “It wont happen, it cant happen, its too insane” in the past 10 years? only for it to very much happen?
Shoot for the Gilead. If you miss, you still land among the capitalist nightmare hellscape.
“Our first mistake was teaching them to read. We won’t do that again”
I swear to god they’re trying to legislate a civil war. They preach us vs them political rhetoric and want everyone running around with a gun. What a shit time to call yourself an American, but then again I’m not sure there ever was a good time.
I think its also them seeing vigilantism as a way to get around constitutional requirements like due process and the 8th amendment. This is the kind of law people created by people who see the constitution as an obstacle.
It is somewhat comforting that they still see the constitution as a barrier to the hellscape they envision for society.
Playing around with the monopoly of violence in the US strikes me as a bad idea.
But yes, they’re mobilizing the klan again.
I swear to god they’re trying to legislate a civil war.
Yes. Thats what they want. They want a mass uprising that they can use to suspend rule of law, elections, etc, so trump can become el’ presidente’ for life and commence to doing whatever the republicans want to do, free from oversight of law, courts, etc.
I suddenly want to play Tropico.
trump can become el’ presidente’ for life
Honestly, I wouldn’t be opposed to that, so long as the two-term-limit remains effective…
Killing live people - women, children, POCs, poor, other countries, etc - has always been acceptable and even promoted by Republicans. It’s only ending potential pregnancies when they “care” about lives. Except of course when it’s their wife, mistress, daughter who wants an abortion, then it’s ok.
If I were to summarize how this fits into long term republican vision of society it would be the following.
“Abortion, like healthcare, home ownership, and free speech is a thing we should reserve solely to for the wealthy and anybody making less than 2 million a year should not have access to any of these things”
“Rules for thee, not for me.”
2 million a year is a close to perfect way to divide the owning class for the rest of us. A surgeon has more in common with a grocery store clerk than a CEO and people really don’t understand that.
Honestly in some ways the actual number doesn’t matter, if you earn your living by selling your labor for a salary or wages you aren’t the problem
The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion
This is 26 years old and still worth your time if you’ve never read it.
has always been acceptable by
RepublicansAmericansFixed that for you
in texas, they have breeding facility for minors that got impregnated by ice agents, to hide the rape from the public.
people keep talking about “first-degree murder”
is there “second-degree murder”?
Depends state to state, in some, first degree is basically terrorists and serial killers.
First degree usually means premeditation
Yes:
Second-degree murder
Any intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned. A situation in which the killer intends only to inflict serious bodily harm, knowing this could result in death but with no specific intent to kill, constitutes depraved-heart murder, which can be considered as second-degree murder.
Are they punished differently in the US? In most countries there isn’t really a distinction because of the difficulty in proving intent.
If somebody repeatedly kicks and punches somebody into unconsciousness and ultimately kills them from internal bleeding is that first degree or second degree?
Likely second, unless there was some evidence it was planned in some way. Like, if they also found a text talking about how much they hated that guy and wished he was dead, you could make a case for first. If there was a plan to bring the person to an isolated location for their fight, it would likely be first in that case. Same could be said for tracking their work shifts in preparation, casing their house to see when they’re alone, etc.
Intent is not the difference. The difference is planning.
I am not a lawyer, but this my understand:
If you’re enjoying a quiet time in the park and a kid shouts, which disturbs you, so you shoot the kid in the head. You intended to kill the kid. You aimed at his head and shot a deadly weapon.
However, it was not planned. Your plan was to enjoy a quiet time in the park. You just killed the kid because of a momentary rage. You didn’t even know the kid.
I believe that would be second degree.
If you didn’t intend to kill, that would be something else, like gross negligence or whatever. For example running a red light and killing a kid that you didn’t even see because your enormous American car (which you call a truck, but the bed is always empty). That would not be first or second degree murder. In America it may just result in a traffic violation because you ran a red light. Might be a 100$ fine.
Generally speaking, second degree doesn’t involve premeditation. You get in a bar fight and kill someone or walk in on your wife with another man and shoot in a blind rage.
Manslaughter is generally when you kill someone criminally without intent. That would be something like running a stoplight, which is a crime, and t-boning a car killing a passenger. You were committing a non-violent crime with no intent to hurt anyone, but you still killed someone.
Felony Murder in many states is when you commit a felony that leads to someone’s death. For instance, you commit arson for insurance money (a felony), and someone gets killed trying to put it out. It’s also been used on robbery accomplices when their partner kills someone.
Depraved Heart Murder is when you knowingly do something so incredibly reckless someone is likely to get killed and choose to move forward. The depraved indifference in that case is considered malice aforethought (essentially intent). An example would be knowingly selling tainted medicine for profit. A great real-life example was the Schlitterbahn executive that paid off injury victims for a dangerous waterside to keep them quiet because the slide was really profitable until a kid was decapitated by the ride. The executive was charged with murder for covering up the dangerous ride instead of shutting down and fixing it.
thanks
so just to clarify, insurance companies intentionally delaying care to patients would be depraved heart murder, right?
This is unbelievable. I remember reading into misogyny through the ages and there was a law like this in one of earth’s oldest human societies. How have we gone this far back???
Religion. That’s why. It’s cancer.
Really? Because I see only one religion pushing this shit, and it’s Christianity.
Despite the fact abortion, in terms of it being a threat to the mother’s life, is perfectly acceptable in the Bible.
I beg to differ. Today this is moneyed elites throwing certifiably insane people concessions because sane people would impose taxes on the rich. To the wealthy protecting their money comes before the freedom of the masses.
It doesn’t sound like Hate, it sounds like Slavery.
Hate would be activelly going out and trying to kill women, whilst punishing them for not letting their bodies be used by others as objects is, IMHO, much more a Slaver’s take on other human beings.
A Slaver’s motivation would also be pretty in tune with Tradition for Republican members of the power elites in North Carolina.
Removing the remnants of a miscarriage is also coded as an abortion. So theres still plenty of hate in this bill as well.
Hopefully they won’t pass a law requiring shotgun weddings in the case of pregnancy.
Abortions are actually very common due to miscarriages. I was personally affected by this and was present for a 9 month old abortion of a stillbirth. Even though my wife gave birth it was classified as an abortion because the baby had passed. We even have a abortion certificate.
So, according to proposed law a gunman could enter the hospital and kill the doctors, nurses, my wife and me in order to stop an abortion of a dead baby.
Makes perfect sense.
You’ve also got to remember that most of these people have never had a proper relationship with a woman in their lives, so they wouldn’t know about any of this.
It’s a different and more complicated kind of hate. I find it useful to split bigotry into bigotry to dominate and bigotry to exterminate. American racism towards black people is the former, while American racism towards indigenous people is the latter.
Misogyny is almost always about domination, but it’s a unique kind because they can’t switch to extermination or even bluff it. They can’t hide women away to exist quietly in the background. They’re fully dependent on women to reproduce, and for most misogynistic men, for sexual pleasure. Many of them resent that they’re dependent on those they see as inferior for such things and that they can be leveraged.
So yeah, this is hate, just a hate that they can deny because they don’t want to think that they hate women, just women’s independence.
Well, I suppose the broader point I’m making is that it’s Sociopathy/Psychopathy.
The most harm done to people (I would even say, the most Evil) comes from people who couldn’t care less for how other people feel because they have no Empathy with other people’s suffering, and thus when they can will do whatever to others for their own personal upsides, even if those “upsides” are only satisfying their own personal petty psychological desires such as those you point out.
Hate actually involves some element of thinking of and caring about the other person (though a negative “caring”, of the “I want to make them suffer”), a kind of Evil which is very rare in real life even if it’s the most common in the movie “evil guy” stereotype.
As I’ve learned (from amongst other things working in the Finance Industry), the most common Evil is people knowingly doing things harmful to others to make money for themselves, get (more) power and influence or simply satisfy petty internal desires such as wanting to feel dominance over others (this later being, IMHO, the core of Moralism).
That’s fair, but we also don’t know that he doesn’t actively hate women. Just because you don’t want someone dead doesn’t mean you don’t have active hatred for them.
Most evil is banal, but quite a few people move to hating groups that they initially were hurting out of self interested gain. I’ve seen plenty of hate and it’s often a means of bypassing empathy for some reason or another
God this is a good comment
