Know a guy.
It is good when people help each other. It warms a truck when a community sticks by each other.
Shit like this is why I love the punk scene. The punk scene is like the idealized small American town, for you may one day be asked to help someone you barely know and do it without a second thought. Why wouldn’t you help someone who needs it. You know damn well that when the time comes and you too need help, it will be found.
I have pulled on my network of comrades to make sure someone got a phone. This was done for the price of food and fellowship.
This is the way.
You engage in the economy of helping people to move stuff. One person has a dolly, another has a truck, they come, they move the thing, you pay in pizza and at least one IOU of “I’ll be there for you next time”.
When the time comes you are enlisted, you go, you help, you recieve pizza.
The cycle continues.
This is the way.
This is the only way.
So we’ve re-derived living in a community from first principles?
I am the guy with the truck.
The truck is proof that Americans can and will accept socialism.
It’s brocialism.
A.k.a. community
"What if we had a system where people could get the assistance they need. We could call it… Communityism.
But see, it’s not fair if people just get what they need! You need to make sure people are paying for it!
We can make it part of the system that each person gets help according to their needs, but each person also gives help according to their abilities. Yes yes. This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
Capitalism has nothing to do with transactions. Capitalism would be if the truck was owed by Benny, who would not show up, not fill it up with gas, not repair it, but would still receive half of pizza and 2/3 of beer.
You are correct that I was not describing capitalism.
I was participating in the silly by creeping closer to full communism and still saying it’s something else.And I’m not sure why Benny would only get half and 2/3s respectively. They owned the truck, so they’re the one that did the moving. The others are just employees.
I’m pretty sure they were referring to From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs which most definitely is not capitalism lol, it’s a joke
This is now definitely capitalism because it’s transactions.
I get the rest of the comment dude, its the last sentence that is problematic.
the last sentence is a joke… because what is being described is socialism. How is that problematic? lol wat?
It’s not really capitalism without the involvement of capital, is it? It’s more akin to a trade-and-barter-economy/society, where everyone involved should have a high level of faith in others
I’m pretty sure they were referring to From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs which most definitely is not capitalism lol, it’s a joke
TIL, thx
How do you think Kevin paid for the truck? With pizzas?
Sorry if it wasn’t clear, but money != Capital, not necessarily. You can have money to exchange for goods, but as long as your money doesn’t auto-accumulate via interest, dividends etc, you don’t necessarily have capital. Of course this is mainly a discussion on definitions then
No, the truck is his capital. That’s his means of production — presumably, not just of free pizzas in exchange for moving furniture, but even then, every dollar he saves by not having to pay for dinner could go towards paying off his car loan.
On top of that he’s saving on taxes because no money was ever exchanged for this transaction. Everything about this scenario is 100% capitalist.
Is it not what anarchy is really about? Low-level self organization.
The crazy part is it doesn’t matter who you voted for, everyone on both sides would generally love to help their neighbor and would offer a hand. It’s just when people get involved in the macro sense that they get filled with hate and anger. Makes me sad. Let’s just all move couches.
Conservatives are often nice to people they know. The in-group. The problem is when it’s a scary other. So they’ll let Jose couch surf for a week while he sorts out his housing situation, because he’s a good guy down on his luck, but they’ll rage against Those People getting anything.
That’s my understanding too. It’s like empathy just ends at one’s own line of sight. If I can’t see it or touch it, there may be something wrong with it. It’s infuriating.
Yeah, but he’s different, he’s not like the others that you see on the news
My FIL literally helped an undocumented Mexican who worked for him become a citizen, but is anti immigration.
Because they are chudservatives , they are only nice to people they know and like
They are hateful to people they don’t know and don’t like, people who don’t have the same opinions, and people who don’t hold the same beliefs
Can we do that without the latent ableism that comes along with it, like the idea that if you can’t help people move couches then you don’t deserve anyone else’s help either?
This especially effects people with invisible disabilities, who are already viewed as lazy, but who also might be the most helpless when it comes to moving their own furniture.
Kevin and Tony would definitely move a sofa for a person with disabilities. No doubt in my mind. They’d still expect pizza and beer tho, that’s non-negotiable.
Okay well what about when they ask that person later if they’ll help move Tony’s fridge? Like this un-negotiated yet obligatory repayment. If you say “sorry, I can’t” then they’ll immediately lose respect for you, and probably tell everyone they know not to help you in the future. Even if you explain that you have a condition that prevents you, if that condition isn’t visible to them they’ll think you’re just selfish and making excuses.
Also, are you willing to guarantee that Kevin and Tony aren’t racist or homophobic? Are you willing to guarantee they would help move a sofa for someone who’s gay or black? This is about more than just disabilities.
This is about “good ole boy” culture and relying on the benevolence and altruism of people who likely as not only care about helping people they view as a part of their in-group. And if you think that’s not a real problem in america, then you must not live here because it’s literally all over the place here.
Maybe they’d judge you, maybe they wouldn’t. No way of knowing. Sorry that you feel so mistreated by hypothetical strangers. I wasn’t attempting to drum up any sort of trauma for you. I’m sending some lovingkindness out into the world for all living beings right now, and I hope you can get a little hit of it too. Be well.
I think it’s kind of ablist to assume a disabled person has nothing of value to offer, like if they can’t move a couch then they are excluded. “Moving a couch” could be anything, it could be filing taxes or cooking a meal. Disabled people are good at stuff too. I think it’s really weird for you to make this assumption.
Honestly it’s both. Plenty of people with disabilities have plenty to offer. A lot actually don’t though, and they still deserve that helping hand.
A family aquatintance has some mental and physical disabilities. They’re just not going to be able to help in any way that isn’t superficial. And that’s okay. Their worth isn’t defined by their utility.Attaching how worthwhile it is to help someone to their ability to provide a service inherently says the person who can’t isn’t worthy of help.
We should be good to people because it’s the right thing to do, not out of the expectation of a future repayment. More pragmatically, we should help based on the assumption that the other person would, and that if everyone acted like that the world would be better.
I think the other person read a bit much into it, but their base point isn’t wrong.
Thank you! You phrased it better than I could.
I find it wild that most people here can’t see through their own assumptions. Like, everyone else needs to examine their own biases. Not them though, they could never be biased. It shows such a lack of self-awareness on their part.
My dad had a prosthetic leg, and he bristled at some of the polite or accepting ways that people would talk about disability in a way that stuck with me because he explained it. Basically a dislike of “handicapable” or the notion that you “make up for it” in other ways. To paraphrase: “getting my foot cut off in a car accident didn’t come with some perk that balanced things out”.
I think a lot of the pushback you got came not from a place of rejecting that they could have a bias, but from the topic being broached as a confrontation of bias instead of an explanation of ignorance.
People, like the poster above, who are being conscientious according to their understanding will get indignant or frustrated when that’s met with an unmatched response.Assuming positive intent colors implicit “positive abelism”, or other “positive -isms” that I’m personally less knowledgeable about, as unfamiliarity or ignorance rather than callousness or rudeness.
In those cases, the person is very unlikely to disagree or pushback if informed about their blind spot. The key part in their head was “disabled people are just as important”, sitting right next to “good people chip in and contribute”. So they respond to “disabled people can’t always contribute” with “disabled people are important!” phrased as "disabled people can contribute!”.Addressing it as a bias against disabled people doesn’t fit because that part is correct. Need to address it at where the problem is: a misconception about the relationship between human worth, labor and utility.
I agree. Even if the task at hand really is moving a couch, coordinatin, organising, etc. are crucial contributions that dont require physical strength or ableness to do.
Just because you can’t lift the couch doesn’t mean you can’t help. Someone has to pick up the beer, someone has to drive the truck. Someone needs to hold the doors while they carry it in, someone needs to know a guy who can help, the list of things goes on for miles.
What I think is ableist is that you would try to pretend that disabled people don’t get excluded due to society devaluing the things they can offer.
It’s also ableist for you to suggest that a disabled person should be expected to file someone else’s taxes if they need help moving furniture.
You just gave a master class in missing the point.
The same way it isn’t about the couch, it isn’t about the taxes
To each according to their means, to each according to their needs was
Or in brocialism terms “Autism be damned my boy can work a grill”
Every metaphor breaks down if you read it at face value
Okay, that’s fine and all, but “brocialism” will never be enough because it depends so strongly on a person’s personal connection. It’s not “to each accord to their needs” it’s “to each according to their connections.”
If you don’t see how that disproportionally benefits and privileges in-groups then I don’t know how much clearer I can break it down for you. A socialist society needs mechanisms in place to take care of those who would be forgotten by “brocialism” alone.
Maybe the system works for autistic people who can grill, but what about autistic people who can spend two hours explaining the history of North Rhine-Westphalia or Star Trek lore or any other special interest? You think someone with a truck will view that as an equivalent exchange?
Mind you, I’m not saying their talents are worthless. I’m telling you my experience as a neurodivergent person that most people view these things as lacking value and will marginalize anyone whose contributions consist exclusively of talents that most people consider worthless.
Assuming every autistic person can grill or contribute something that neurotypical people value as having worth is wrong because it marginalizes those who fall outside of that limited group, and because it reinforces the system and the idea that people need to be able to contribute something deemed valuable before they deserve to receive help.
And if you can’t see how that disadvantages the people whose disabilities are the most severe, then I don’t know what will get through to you.
“to each according to their connections.”
Show me one part of humanity’s development that did not involve social connection. You, as a human being are part of an unbroken chain of social connections spanning back so far that there isn’t even a word for how many generations it is.
Maybe the system works for autistic people who can grill, but what about autistic people who can spend two hours explaining the history of North Rhine-Westphalia or Star Trek lore or any other special interest? You think someone with a truck will view that as an equivalent exchange?
You’re still focusing too much on the minutiae of the reference not the meaning behind it, its not about the grilling the same way it’s not about the truck, the same way small talk isn’t about the weather.
To use your own words
I don’t know how much clearer I can break it down for you
ITS ABOUT MAKING A CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AND DISCOVERING THAT NOT EVERYONE IS A CUNT.
I have fully ND mates, who have special interests that they have built communities around. One of whom was genuinely incapable of spending time out in public without being in full body attack mode after less than an hour is now entirely able to spend an entire day out at a festival AND maintain enough social battery to continue spending time with friends well into the evening. Something they have fully admitted to me would not be possible five years ago.
the idea that people need to be able to contribute something deemed valuable before they deserve to receive help.
Some people enjoy conversation. Some people are bad at using maps. Some people need to be able to speak out their thoughts aloud to even begin to analyse them and require a rubberduck that can ask questions.
“Something deemed valuable” can have many meanings to many people, but you’ll never find out what they deem valuable by mentally labelling them as a degenerate that should not be interacted with the second they say something you disagree with.
Cool thing about being disabled is you become the one who knows the people with a truck and a couple 20-year old children. Or the person who cuts hair for free. Or the person whose cousin does pro bono legal work for certain requests.
In short, you become the key connector in that network: the Guy Who Knows A Guy.
It sounds like you’re putting a lot of weight in your own experience and assuming every disabled person will have the same experience.
Maybe you or someone you know is disabled and is that connector who knows a guy. But projecting that and assuming every other disabled person will have that same advantage is a wild thing to do, and I’m surprised that more people don’t see through that.
My wife has a physical disability, she is an “asker”, as in knows she will need help from others and so will ask random people, and also connects a lot of people together. Maybe not everyone becomes that, but it sort of forces you to.
Why is everyone relying so hard on using specific counterexamples as a counterargument?
Counterexamples only refute absolute statements. If I said “no one with a disability can find the help they need in this kind of system,” then sure, listing a few people with disabilities who do find the help they need would be enough to refute that statement.
But that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is “not everyone (including, but not limited to people with disabilities) can find the help they need in this kind of system.”
It’s a completely different statement, because it’s not an absolute. I’m not saying that no exceptions exist. I’m saying that exceptions do exist to the opposite statement, i.e. “everyone (including people with disabilities) can find the help they beed in this kind of system.” Which, by the way, is an absolute statement.
So in fact I’m the one arguing against an absolute, and people try refuting me as if I’m stating an absolute when I’m not.
And unless anyone wants to argue that every single person in this system is able to find the help they need when they need it, then there’s really no way to argue against my point, because my entire point is simply that that’s not true. There are people who get left out, and any attempt to claim otherwise is erasure.
It’s less an advantage and more a necessity. You either become the person who knows people who can do things or certain things don’t get done.
Yes, you’re right about that. And that’s precisely why people who can’t form those connections are at such a disadvantage.
My partner has disabilities and so they do not help lift the sofa. But they are a lot better at driving a manual truck than I am, so with a few pillows and adaptations in the driver’s cab that is what they do when someone needs a sofa moved. Some disabilities prevent you from driving the truck too, but it’s important as a group of sofa movers to make sure that everyone has something they can fulfill, even if that means planning the move. That can be incredibly helpful.
Anecdotes and exceptions don’t justify the erasure of marginalia.
Like, why don’t all blind people just become famous musicians so that they can be rich? Ray Charles did it.
No one in their right mind would think that means blind people don’t require assistance/accomodations.
Your partner has disabilities but can drive a stick shift? Great. I guess the rest of us disabled people just need to bootstrap a little harder?
I think we all understand you are angry and respect that (I hope).
But saying it’s nice and good when people are helpful doesn’t imply that peiple who can’t help are not nice and good. There’s some kind of logical fallacy in that interpretation of it.
It’s not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good.
It’s more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors.
There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged.
Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn’t go away. But we shouldn’t rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn’t glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help.
I don’t think we understand your point or how it relates to this post
Exactly. You don’t, and you’re unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That’s only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I’m saying.
It seems like you’re saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa?
You better come with some jokes then. When I’m moving some bulky furniture upstairs and really not having a good time, sometimes a well-timed joke is exactly what we need to drop it and injure ourselves.
Was this supposed to be an attempt at a joke?
If you want to be included by people, try to be less of a dick.
This isn’t me talking about the wider disabled community, of which I am part of, when I say this btw, this is me talking to you.
Okay, while you’re jerking off the dicks driving big-ass little-dick trucks, I guess I’ll try being nicer to those assholes while they honk their horns at pedestrians, double-park or park on crosswalks, and all that other shit that they do and everyone knows they do because they’re doing it in big-ass trucks and it’s not subtle.
Especially the ones rolling coal and flying trump flags. Should I try to be less of a dick to them to? I don’t want to be included in whatever they’ve got going on. I certainly would never ask one to help move furniture. Their trucks are only for show anyway…
Are you in a lot of pain or in withdrawel or something? I’m struggling to understand where all this self victimising vitriol is coming from otherwise.
Yes, being disabled sucks, yes most people also suck, and everything is also fucking awful everywhere most of the time, and that sucks too.
But this is a comment section under a lighthearted post about moving furniture, so there’s obviously something else going on that has you so upset.
[Deleted duplicate]
We do socialism all the time.
Neighbors bring each other gifts. Friends feed one another. Someone is struggling and we give them what they need, no questions asked.
That’s not really socialism, given that it is not universally distributed but depends on one’s social connections. A socialist system would have impersonal mechanisms for catching those who fall through the cracks due to not knowing enough people to ask for and repay favours. (And those people do exist: “everyone knows a guy with a truck” except perhaps for a socially isolated shut-in or someone who does not speak the language, or someone who does not fit in with the community in their truck catchment radius.)
Yeah, in this case “everyone” literally just means “everyone who’s visible within my social radius.”
It completely erases everyone else, like the types of people you mentioned. It’s very in-group focused, and bears uncanny parallels to the fascist idea that outsiders don’t matter.
deleted by creator
I am also the guy with the truck. But I do not drive 5-speed manual very well. So the truck lives at the house of my friend who is good at driving manual. He’s kind of my Tony, I guess. The truck is indeed a community resource of anyone we are decent friends with.
Ease the clutch out at the same rate you put on the gas. Just a nice smooth up and down with both feet at the same time, like you are pedaling a bike, but with 2 tons hammering around you.
It’s so refreshing to see goodvibe things from the US :D
Until now, trucks seemed to be linked to toxic masculinity. Turns out, the guys just want to be part of the community.
No matter where you come from , once you can say “I know a guy” you’re an American.
I may not know a guy, but I know a guy who knows a guy
You got a guy guy? Nice
It’s amazing how many different species of Knowaguy there are. I recently was introduced to a friend’s “Bridge Guy” - a dealer in surplus bridges who will cut you a suspiciously good deal if you seem cool. Not the most immediately useful, but like… Could be damned handy to have in my back pocket should the right circumstances arise.
I’ve needed a bridge guy twice in my life.
Which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that its happened twice.
Be careful acquiring bridges from a guy. I’ve heard that can go horribly sweet awry and quickly.
I am that guy
It still counts!
I say “I know a guy” and if said guy were american he’d be in prison lmao
Societies that run on favors are corrupt societies.
Societies that run on neighbours, friends, acquaintances, and that guy over there helping each other out in exchange for sharing pizza and beer afterwards are wholesome societies.
I think I didn’t say it how I meant to say it. I meant in a political sense, there’s no law, just who you know.
I think what you originally said makes sense in the strictest sense. Technically, not favors. The payment was pizza.
In Frieren, the main hero would always charge a “fee” even to the poorest people who needed help. Often at the cost of totally worthless items because “now they don’t owe me”. The transaction is complete, no furthur obligation. Even “token” fees are better than ambiguous favors imo. Thats where I usually charge the friend price of a meal for most of my services.
Depends on the favors. Moving furniture for others in exchange for a portion of a pizza isn’t a problem.
No not that
A society that operates on an assumption of mutual support is generally just called anarchy.
And societies ran on capital with different tiers of classes based solely on the situation a person is BORN into is certainly the more just and appropriate way to organize a society? It definitely couldn’t be one based on mutualism and equity, no sir.
/S
Favours need to be paid back. This story is about paying it forward.
The Truck guy receives no financial reimbursement for his time, fuel and wear-and-tear, but the helpers are not paying back someone for the help, they are paying forward.
Corruption is where someone is collecting financial gain without a commensurate amount of effort. A contract “Man with a Van” who gets paid to move goods is more able to abuse their role for extortion or corruption than a loose social group of “Bloke with a Ute”.
Thanks for explaining
The American lower-working class economy is predominantly favor and goodwill-based, yes. Pain in the ass sometimes but also more fun imo. Community is important to keep alive.
Not just American. It’s poor people’s economy everywhere. American working class has more in common with working class in every other nation than American wealth class. The real division in the world is class division, everything else is distraction.
This exactly. There’s an inversion when having money is more convenient than having contacts and doing small favors, and that inversion turns people into lonely cunts.
Incredibly wealthy people also run their society based on favors and unspoken fees. The difference is, one of them could, under unusual but not impossible circumstances, help a friend and a guy move a fridge and share a pizza and beer. But nobody who’s not part of the incredible-wealth society can participate in its favors. And we all pay the fees.
I don’t see what about this that makes it a “working-class” thing? I thought it was common practice to help each other out in exchange for pizzas and beer in any part of society where people have friends? I see it primarily as an excuse to hang out while doing something together.
Whenever you can afford to pay to have a problem of yours solved, it’s often the most convenient way of solving it.
Anyone who makes their living by working, either for salary or hourly rate, is working class. Let’s just be on the same page about that.
A working class person basically survives by converting their time and energy to cash. So paying cash is also paying with your labour, indirectly and often inefficiently. It’s always a matter of “is it worth it”? Hiring movers for moving your entire home may be worth it, just one piece of furniture often isn’t.
A wealth-class person gets their income from what they own. Its “passive” from their point of view, the money just appears as profit or capital gains or whatever. It’s still a limited resource, but often way more available. Any kind of favours you do or ask for at this point is purely for fun/social purposes since hiring someone to move that sofa, or even just buying and having a new one delivered is way more convenient and time-efficient, since your money is not literally your time.
Anyone who makes their living by working, either for salary or hourly rate, is working class. Let’s just be on the same page about that.
Aha! That’s where you got me! I was thinking “working class” in the more classical sense, referring to typical lower-paying jobs. I work for a living, but I’m definitely closer to what is typically considered “middle-class” in the sense that I make enough money that I feel well-off, but not enough that I could buy a new sofa just because moving the old one is too much hassle.
Obligatory “Fuck the wealth-class”. “Passive income through ownership” is a convoluted way of saying “parasitic”.
Congratulations, you’re part of the working class. Your wealth comes from work you do with head and hand. The epstein class want you to think of yourself as middle class, so you’ll feel threatened by the working class. There is no middle class. They take, and we pay. That’s what class is.
There’s an Spanish song about that: El vals del obrero (the worker’s waltz)
(Translated with Reverso. Sorry for the possible mistakes)
Proud to be (Proud to be)
Among the proletariat (Among the proletariat)
It’s hard to make ends meet
And have to sweat and sweat
To earn our bread
And this is my place, these are my people
We are workers, the preferred class
Therefore, proletarian brother, with pride
I sing you this song, we are the revolution
Yes, sir! , the revolution
Yes, sir! , Yes, sir! we are the revolution
Your enemy is the master
Yes, sir! , Yes, sir! we are the revolution
Long live the
I’m sick to death of leeches
Those who steal my dignity
My life is consumed by enduring this routine
Who drowns me more every day
Happy businessman, more calluses in my hands
My kidneys are going to burst
I don’t have a fucking buck, but I’m still paying in
To your welfare state
Up!
In this democracy, there is a lot of smart money to be made
Squeezing our social class
They don’t give a fuck if you have fourteen children
And grandma can’t be operated on
We are the workers, the basis of this game
In which he always loses the same pringao
A well thought out game, in which we are kept quiet
And they fuck you if you don’t want to play (Up!)
I agree with pretty much everything you’re saying here, I still want to comment on
Middle class does not exist
I do think it’s a reasonable term to separate those that actually make a decent salary, are self-employed, own their own company (at which they work) together with others, etc. from the more clearly exploited workers that have far too few rights and are not compensated fairly.
I have no problem with selling my labour for money as long as I’m fairly compensated for it. Historically, the working class has not been.
I have no problem with selling my labour for money as long as I’m fairly compensated for it.
If you are working for a salary, you are never fairly compensated. If you received the value you actually produced, your boss can’t make a profit. Profit is only possible by a exploitation.
The intensity of said exploitation is a spectrum, there is a huge difference between having some savings and disposable income versus barely surviving. I also make a decently comfortable living as a software engineer but I’m still a crippling accident away from losing it all and depending on disability benefits.
Even if life is good for you at your income level, you’re still getting scammed to a (much smaller) extent. And the Epstein class use the money they scam off you, to control society. Money has this mathematical effect where it wants to accumulate in one place. It’s like a kind of economic gravity. Any inequality will magnify itself over time if it isn’t carefully controlled by government.
Social democrats think good enough regulation can preserve that very-slightly-inequal system forever. But I say that kind of setup is inherently unstable. Capitalism will always trend towards inequality over time. Instead of trying to control money and make it go against its nature, we should abolish money. A gift economy would be better.
I have a friend who’s done very well with the AI boom, he works for some startup, has for the past six or seven years. He moved into an apartment like 10 years ago, he was working for a pharma company, just building their servers I’ll say, because I don’t know what the fuck he does. When he moved into the apartment, he hit me up, I rounded up another friend or two, we took care of it.
He bought (had built) a new home about six or seven months ago. He did not call me to help him move. He’s moved beyond that, because to him, he doesn’t want to be involved. You don’t call someone to help you move and then not take part. For him, it’s a no-brainer to just pay to have it done. And that’s fine, and I just kinda wanted to give an example of this divide.
This is a wild concept for other cultures. Like, in Germany people will help you move. Your friends that is. Maybe a coworker or neighbour - if you even know any neighbour at all. That is all but a given here as well. But some random guy? Nah…
Oh and you absolutely have to rent a truck. I don’t know a single truck person. There is no such thing as having a truck, unless you need it for business. Long story short: I just paid a company >2k to move just one town over
This can absolutely also happen in a place like Germany. Yes, no one really has a truck for personal use (or rather a box truck), but you know a guy who knows a guy that has a truck for his business and doesn’t need it on the weekend, et voila. Maybe it’s not that extreme, but especially for ‘poorer’ working class people, helping out is still essential even in Germany.
When I was in Europe I saw a bunch of houses with trailers they could tow bulk items with their cars. Are those not common in Germany?
Also strongly depends on the community and your perceived level of acceptance within the community.
Anyone who’s ever been viewed as an outsider knows that it is not this simple unless you happen to fit in.
Yeah, small town community always sounds warm and fuzzy until you end up on the outside.
A while back, I knew of a family that moved into a house in the center of a town near where I grew up. A couple and two kids. The town had a big clock with a bell that rang hourly. Even in the dead of night. Right across the street from their house.
The family asked the town if they could silence the chimes between sunset and sunrise so that they and their kids could sleep. The town said no, the chimes are a local tradition.
The family then brought up state noise ordinances that the town’s clock was violating. The town still refused. So they petitioned the state, the state got involved, and made the town silence the clock at night. The locals threw a fit.
The family didn’t last long in their new house after that. But they were at least lucky enough to have the means to pack up and move somewhere else.
The less lucky are stuck. They get to spend the rest of their lives as the local “problem”. A skewed nail to be hammered down. I’ve known enough people where any utterance of their name is met with a cautionary “you shouldn’t associate with them”, even when it’s been so long that no one can tell you why. But it’s often the case that those are the people most worth knowing.
Thank you! So many people elsewhere in this comment section don’t seem to understand this.
And yeah, it could be over something so benign as that, or even more benign. But too many people assume that if someone is being ostracized, then they must have done something to deserve it. That’s not always the case though, especially in puritanical smalltown USA.
Some of these towns, if you’re not being ostracized by most of the people there, then something must be wrong with you, because there are places where you’ll be ostracized for not supporting maga or for believing in climate change or empathy.
This is why I’m saying we shouldn’t romanticize that “smalltown vibe,” because there absolutely is a dark side to it. But people are reacting with such hostility. Clearly they haven’t lived in the kind of area I’m talking about…
That was the ancient economy, before money even existed. You gave stuff to people. Bread, pots, meat, build a cabin. They gave stuff back that you needed, roughtly about the same value, but never exactly the value. Everybody has to be a little in debt to anyone else. If you gave back exactly what it’s worth, it means you don’t want to deal with that person anymore.
Yeah, this is the gift economy. And when the only economy is the gift economy, that’s called communism.
Shh dude, don’t tell the american working class that they are doing communism, because communism is bad, you know.
Today would be my brother’s birthday, he was my truck guy (and so much more).
in my experience, this is also how 3d printers work…
Fyi, if you are moving one piece of furniture, sure get the truck guy and a couple buddies. If you are moving ALL your stuff, hire movers. (Unless you and your buddies are in their 20s)
If you are moving ALL your stuff, hire movers.
In my experience, that’s what Dad is for.
It starts with Dad moving you to and from dorm rooms. Then apartments.
When my wife and I moved to our house I hired movers. It was a lot easier and not terribly expensive.
When my wife moved her business to a new building, my mom told me my dad insisted on helping us move, so I didn’t hire movers as I had planned. When we were moving the tons of furniture, cabinets, and massive boxes stuffed full of files, my dad mentioned that my mom told him I had asked him to help me move. I have never been able to determine why my mom manipulated us into nearly killing ourselves.
Now I’m the dad. I’ve moved kids to and from dorm rooms and apartments. I’ve rented trucks for huge moves. My daughter and I are moving a couch, a dresser, an end table and all her cooking utensils on Saturday.
Not only do I have a truck, I also have straps, furniture dollies, moving blankets, mattress bags, etc.
My most recent purchase was a shoulder dolly. If you haven’t seen one, picture two harnesses with a wide strap running between them. Two people squat on either end of the item being moved with the wide strap running under it. You take up the slack in the strap, and just stand up to lift it off the ground. It’s a game changer.
I’ve become my own moving company.
In Australia the price is beer. If it’s a small job, one or two beers, either while doing the job or at the end, big job means a whole case of beer per person. Everyone would think there was something wrong with you if you provided only pizza.
Having been the guy with the truck for a while, that is 100% how it works. However, the currency can also be a beer (or two).
I own a truck. I live in the states. In a state more urban than rural - so less trucks comparatively speaking.
BY FAR - the best part about owning a truck, is being asked to help someone move something big. This couldn’t be more true. Except sometimes the payment can be, or include a single cold beer. My name isn’t Kevin though.
I do this ALL THE TIME-and I love it.
This was surprisingly funny and surprisingly positive for something to do with Americans.
Most of us are just regular, friendly people who are glad to help out if needed. There are pockets of shit people who thrive on hate, but that’s true for any country.
They’re pretty godamn loud too
That’s the thing, the most vocal tend to be the worst type of people. Online that gives the impression that a lot of people are bad when in reality I think most people want to be good people.
Agreed, that was actually the point of my comment (at least in my eyes), but I do greatly appreciate you articulating it!
You can really just feel that sentiment in everyday life too, just going about your business, people want to feel helpful. I love that.
It’s part of what made me not understand how powerful propaganda could be when I was younger.
Look for the helpers, and when you see someone say Mr Rogers was a bad thing, immediately set them on fire. Duty is duty.
Would Kevin and Tony offer to move fridge for a black guy though? Bet you can’t say for sure.
Having been someone’s Kevin and/or Tony in this country, they could be green and have antennae. They’re a neighbor, they need a couch moved, and I happen to have nothing to do today. This is the code.
Americans are a very friendly people, all things considered. The whole smiling at everyone you see, helping out strangers for fun thing is not universal. Thus, this post.
My partner is from America, and visited Australia for two weeks to see Me. We spent two weeks going on dates together, visiting cool places like the museum, the zoo, a local pirate bar, an escape room. My partner says Australians are much friendlier than Americans and we smile more.
I could believe it. It’s not that it’s unique to America, or anything. But like I’ve read stories about Dutch people for instance thinking Americans on public transportation were simple, due to all the smiling and the like.
There are a lot of ‘good cunts’ in Aussie, for sure.
Its tricky when grumpy or upset but that’s a human thing - often they’re better at expressing it
(Bear in mind, this is all coming from a kiwi male - I’m scared of my feelings or expressing stuff generally)
That ending was damn near wholesome. Also I think my favorite part of the whole thing was “the pizza is not negotiable.”
it’s hard to remember that the average person is a human just like yourself
As a Canadian who owns a truck, I think this may just be a North American thing. I am the guy that is referred to when one says “I know a guy”.
In central Europe it’s just like “I know a guy with a trailer” or a hitch and you rent a trailer. Or as a last resort or maybe an urban thing, you hire a moving truck and still call upon your friends to load and unload and pay in beer and pizza/döner.
Ignore religion, politics, and hard drugs and this is just normal.
As an american, I think it’s toxic positivity because it ignores all the invisible social rejects who live on the margins of society and don’t have the type of community support that makes this possible.
The OOP happened to luck out and knew some nice people and also happened to be accepted by those people as someone who’s worth helping.
The same Kevin might be a completely different person when he drives through a city and sees a homeless person struggling to move a tent with all his possessions…
