You must log in or # to comment.
Why learn to read and write while there’s speech recognition and text-to-speech apps nowadays?
I’m sorry, but can you please attach the youtok link to your comment. I need to hear what you said, since I can’t read…
Best I can do is TickTube.
Its also important we see their ghoulishly over expressive face, so that we know what to think.
And the Uber will take them to right destination 99.9% of the times.
TBF I’ve probably gotten lost more times than that driving my own car.
I lose my way to the cornerstore opposite my building. My mind simply refuses to bother itself with spatial trivia.
What a braindead take, I seriously hope this idiot doesn’t have children of her own
Problem is thanks to tech a braindead take can become cannon to way too many people at the click of a button.
And Kamina shouts, “believe in the me that believes in you”
Sometimes advances in technology do mean that things that they teach in school are outdated and can probably safely be removed.
I’d say cursive writing is one of those things. Writing in general is important, and obviously kids need to learn how to write upper case and lower case block letters. But, with computers everywhere, a whole secondary set of characters that is designed to be linked together seems useless.
I also do think that schools probably focus too much on memorization. I absolutely hated history in school because that’s how it was taught. Memorize the name of these battles and the dates and then regurgitate them for the test. I didn’t actually learn anything meaningful. What would have been much more useful and much more interesting would have been to learn more of the backstory. What was going on in the country that led it to go to war. Were they trying to distract from something, or get the people to unite against a common enemy? Were they supremely confident that they could easily win and gain important territory or resources? Were they backed into a corner?
I’d support not memorizing as many things because it’s true that you can look them up (of course, AI is not how you should ever look anything up because it might just ‘hallucinate’). I think most teachers would agree. But, it’s also a lot harder to write and grade a good test when you’re not doing names and dates. So, I assume that’s another big part of the reason that memorization is the focus.
They took out cursive from the curriculum for a while, but they are supposedly putting it back now. I think they are suggesting the brain learns a little differently with cursive so it’s still useful in that manner.
Also I think you’d enjoy the podcast I listen to, American History Tellers. I hated history for the same reasons you describe but this podcast really made me enjoy it. Usually they open a topic with something like “Imagine it’s in the late 1800s, and you are opening up shop. Times have been hard since [backstory], but you are getting by okay. You do worry about [current topic], and feel worse when you read today’s paper.” Even that small little setup kind of ropes you in to feel like it’s relatable.
I like that setup for learning history. Often history is told from the point of view of either an omniscient being who knows what everybody on every side is thinking, or from the point of view of the ruler of a country. It would be interesting to hear about it from the point of view of an informed but relatively powerless shopkeeper.
History is intentionally taught wrong I think. Nobody really needs to know the exact date that something happened (outside of a few key events). What actually matters is what timeframe it happened in, what events led up to it, and what the consequences were. The “why” behind the events. History should be taught like his-STORY because it is a story. One of my favorite middle school history teachers taught us history as if it was a story book and the historical figures were characters, which made it interesting to listen to, while also being contiguous.
By teaching history as a disjointed series of dates and events, schools fulfill their obligations to have a class be taught without actually teaching the critical thinking people need to understand current events. How much of this is intentional to cause students to grow into adults who vote against their own interests, or simply a result of paying teachers less than McDonald’s workers I do not know.
It’s intentional, ofc.
Horace Mann, the father of public education, was a Puritan. An exerpt from a little article about Horace Mann here:
"It’s worth reminding ourselves now about the key characteristics of the industrial era, and how we can see them manifested in the education system that continues to operate across America to this day:
- Schools focus on respecting authority
- Schools focus on punctuality
- Schools focus on measurement
- Schools focus on basic literacy
- Schools focus on basic arithmetic
Notice how these reinforce each other. You enter the system one way, and are crammed through an extended molding process. The result? A “good enough” cog to jam into an industrial machine."
But school isn’t just preparation the “industrial machine”. It also serves as a propaganda machine. The master of Nazi propaganda, Joeseph Goebbels, saw schools as a place to indoctrinate the youth. That’s the purpose of history class in public education. To build the mythos, to encourage loyalty, to tell stories of brave soldiers fighting the ever-present enemies of the state.
You know they don’t teach typing anymore either. Yeah Ive got 3 nieces and a nephew. None of them can use a keyboard properly. They type with their index fingers.
How old are they? I was never taught typing, just kinda made it up myself. I tried to learn a few times with Mavis Beacon and stuff, but I can never get the “proper” way to stick.
I had a typing class in middle school about 18 years ago (jfc)
However they end up getting the data into the computer, it’s still in the computer. Cursive just isn’t useful in that world.
I think cursive was designed for feather dipped ink pens so they didn’t have to be lifted because that often causes blobs.
It’s also something you can learn easily on the side.
I think it’s primary benefit is if it’s taught to kids, it helps them develop fine motor skills.
We may see a decline in art drawing abilities due to this. (Among other issues that would contribute to this).
Poorer surgeons.
Loss of quality Craftsmanship in many detail oriented fields.
We learn skills like this better as kids.
That’s my only real argument why it should still be taught. Kids don’t really learn fine motor tool manipulation skills like this in their other activities.
Human hands are one of our greatest strengths. Shame to not develop this better in kids.
I think you’re reaching when you think that no cursive writing will mean poorer surgeons. Is there any evidence to back that up, or is it just supposition?
Besides, less time spent on cursive writing could be sent on drawing or painting. Or, the kids could have more time off which they could use to play video games, which give them better hand-eye coordination making them better surgeons later in life.
When did you go to school? I don’t think I’d consider everything about the education I received to be ideal but by the time I was in high school it was very much not about memorisation and history in particular was taught basically exactly like what you described as what you would have preferred it to have been.
Cursive was interesting. I went to a lot of schools because my family moved around a lot. In Primary school, in the 90s cursive was inconsistently taught, and inconsistently valued and by the time I had reached the 6th grade it was simply considered obsolete and sometimes even actively prohibited because they wanted you to dispense with the idea.
As I moved to new schools around this time I noticed nobody else did cursive, also my cursive looked bad since I hadn’t really mastered it and also been taught about 3 or 4 different varieties of the “correct” way at different schools with no acknowledgement of there being different systems in existence. So I gave it up and printed like all my compatriots but then in French class in highschool the text book had a section on french culture showing “french writing” that they presumably taught there and I liked how it was kind of more complicated and daintier than the versions I’d learned so I tried to imitate those stylistic differences for fun and out of boredom in class. I now voluntarily write cursive for the hell of it because it’s more interesting and fun to do. I do this in my own bastardised hand learned in multiple different schools with multiple half remembered “standard” systems plus a few elements of the French system that I cherry picked from that text book all those years ago and a couple of things I looked up online because I wondered if some things might look better from other systems. Don’t know why, just kinda like it.
Based on my kid’s experience, the very particular details aren’t required, though enough to prove you aren’t just completely fabricating things.
Knowing roughly which century and what region things happened, and being called upon to take a cited scenario and then compare and contrast with a scenario of the student’s choice, constrained to a general region and area, that’s the nature of the history class.
I’m overall actually pleased at the blend of knowing enough but not getting carried away in trivial minutia. Has to be somewhat tethered because the teacher has to have some way of knowing whether they actually studied or just vaguely make up thoughts that sound right.
But it takes a while for grades to come back and there aren’t many grades, because it’s pretty much entirely essay, entirely handwritten (because typed is too risky for AI interference).
No complaints from my kid about “computers can do this anyway”, because it’s understood that we do “stupid human tricks” to foster our ability to think, so it sucks, but fine. A bit of the “I’m never ever going to use this” for the advanced math and chemistry, which is accurate, but balanced against “well we can’t specifically tackle what you will use, but we can vaguely get your brain to use these topics to get used to reasoning through things in ways you’ll have to reason through real stuff”.
Theres a reason American slaves weren’t allowed to read or write. Why little girls in Afghanistan aren’t allowed to go to school past 3rd grade.
What’s going to happen when you can’t read agreements or reports. And just have to believe what someone else tells you it says.
?
Whats worrying is that im already in that situation now with all the 50 page user agreements. Like fuck am I reading that every time.
You know, I do research and there are rules that the informed-consent documents have to be written at an 8th grade reading level.
No jargon. No technical writing.
Simple and clear. So that when people agree to be in a study, they actually do understand what that involves.
Otherwise they can sue the hell out of you for misleading them.
Why is this also not a requirement for “terms and service”?
They intentionally write it in “legalise” so that the average person cannot understand it.
I think it should have to follow the same rules as informed-consent documents.
This is why I masturbate.
In the Uber or in school?
Por que no los dos?
The only war is gym class war.
I took gym class online in high school. Best class ever. Just had to make up data for much I ran and how many push ups I did every day. I started at 5 and went up by 1 every week so it looked like I was improving. It was a dumb state class requirement that slipped through the cracks when I moved between states after freshman year, so I had to cram it in my senior year to be able to graduate.
I think the realistic point she was trying to make was that we should be teaching kids how to think not what to think. We have tools that automate all these things now that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still learn about what the agents are actually doing under the hood. But what kids these days are truly missing is cognitive reasoning skills. THAT is what needs to be taught.
If that’s really her point then I think it gets a bit lost in the second point about essays?
So she’s saying that her kids are useless?
No she’s saying she’s useless and stupid and thinks kids should be too
I never thought this would need saying, but the point of writing essays in school is not the final product.
That essay will almost never be good enough to be relevant or published; no one expects it to be. The goal is to engage with the material, and learn to synthesise and present your ideas logically.
We must grade the process of writing an essay, never the final product; especially not based on how “good” an essay that final product is.
We’ve got to stop and ask ourselves why people don’t have AI complete video games for them, but do so for essays. It’s because in one case, the value is in the process, while in the other, the value is believed to be the result, but it shouldn’t be.
If people understood this, it would make no sense having AI write students’ essays. You can blame people for wanting to take shortcuts, but I believe our society and culture at large play a much bigger role in that trend.
very well said
Waay back in high school I had a teacher who just aimed for getting an essay written at all. He had one assignment per week: a 5 paragraph essay due every Friday.
If you turned one in: automatic 75%, baseline. Turn in garbage each week? C grade free. He even said you could turn the same essay in each week. 75%. C.
If you missed it, 0% no make-up work.
A lot of the class failed.
Couldn’t they like turn in a blank page?
I get forgetting it. But you should have a paper somewhere that you could turn in, no?
He demanded at least you write something down. He had a formula for writing 5 paragraph essays and he said to use it, and accepted nonsense if you plugged it in. No pencil. Had to be pen or typed. I still actually use it when trying to write.
When I was in school, I was given a maximum time limit to write an essat. I was told beforehand what the topic would be. My teacher told me the best way to prepare was write an essay before the test and then memorize it so I wouldn’t actually have to create anything new during the test.
Yeah but the point of American school isnt to teach kids to learn and use information. Its too produce obedient and detail oriented workers. Memorizing and regurting information correctly only to dump it for the next project is much more profitable.
I never thought this would need saying, but the point of writing essays in school is not the final product.
Surely people don’t really think that? I say that, and then I think about some of the colossally stupid things I’ve heard people say and say about education.
You’re right, but there’s no easy way to grade the effort without looking at the final result. That’s how you end up with a school system that prioritizes test results so much it ends up teaching students how to pass a test instead of learning and processing information.
Oral exams are decent, but teachers have too many students
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but when I was in school for non-exam (i.e. timed) essays, they were split into outlines and drafts, and the drafts were individually graded as a portion of the entire essay grade, so there was a way to gauge the process rather than simply the final submission.
I always found that process frustrating, however, because English was easily my best subject and the teacher would get upset if I turned in a 2nd draft that was identical to the first because I was already basically there. Now that I’m older, I understand the reason for why the teacher structured the lessons in such a way.
I also think that essays in general are a much better metric for measuring true understanding of a topic, at least compared to multiple choice.
God forbid they learn how to think, when LLMs can do it (kind of) for them
I love how some people are ready to just give up on everything now that AI can do it
Exactly. School isn’t really about memorizing facts, it’s about learning and going Critical Thinking Skills. That’s how humans are supposed to think, and without it, people substitute chaotic thinking that makes them susceptible to manipulation.
Also, it teaches us how to interact with other humans, so our first instinct isn’t just to KILL them.
That’s why we go to school.
At least it should be this way, the reality might be different sometimes:/
Wow the same people who don’t trust vaccines because they read words on a computer screen and it became their belief with zero critical thinking now want all of it done that way for everyone’s every desire
Parasites.
What pisses me off the most with social media is that idiots feel emboldened to triumphantly state moronic opinions as great cultural insights, and have thousands of other idiots cheering them on.
Idiots need to be kept separated. In throngs is when they become dangerous.
