• Nonconfrontational@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Faster than expected, and worse than anticipated. It will get much faster and much worse. Practice growing your own food and stay in shape.

      • tetris11@feddit.uk
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        4 months ago

        Tis better the weather threw back into flight
        A cyclone, a tempest, a sky without blight

          • forbiddencherry@lemmy.today
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            4 months ago

            AI (specifically chatbots) is crap, has stolen and monetized work people shared for free, violates copyrights (including the GPL), has already caused job loss, is biased and bigoted, I’d even say somewhat unethical to use due to the aforementioned things. People are better off not using it (although it’s basically forced on you now when you go to certain websites). But I’ll just mention a couple things:

            • It takes around 200 ChatGPT queries to use 2 gallons of water for cooling (EDIT: seeing a lot of different answers on this, some as high as 2 gallons for only 15 queries. Lets go with that instead. It still means that taking a shower for only 4 seconds uses more water than a single ChatGPT query.)
            • A standard shower head uses 2½ gallons of water per minute

            So to save water, taking a shorter shower, not having a swimming pool, not watering a lawn, not washing your car, not spraying driveways, flushing the toilet less often, washing a full load of laundry and running a full dishwasher instead of hand washing are all much more impactful than cutting out the occasional AI query.

            I do hope that awareness of AI water waste will also motivate people to cut water use in other ways too, so it’s good that the issue keeps coming up.

    • BeUnique@lemmy.zip
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      4 months ago

      The only thing that can save us now is for the top governments across the world to work together on climate change. Most importantly they need to be proactive instead of reactive.

      That being said, yeah, we are absolutely cooked. Even when people start dying they’ll still just fight over resources instead of working together. You can already see signs of it like Trump having his grubby little fingers in Greenland.

      The one thing that I look forward to is if I remain healthy and with a bit of luck, I’ll live long enough to watch this dystopian shithole come crashing down.

        • FishFace@piefed.social
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          4 months ago

          Ai data centres used about 0.5% of global electricity production last year. Electricity production is about 26,000 TWh annually, versus total energy production of 185 TWh annually, so AI was about 0.07% of all energy consumption. Energy production causes the bulk of greenhouse emissions: 73.2%, putting AI on 0.05% (this is unfair to AI, because electricity is cleaner than the average energy production which includes just burning gas for heat).

          In comparison, trying to find something small on https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector my favourite comparison is that energy for making paper consumes more than 10x as much as does AI.

          A large TV might consume about 100W while on, so 100Wh to watch for an hour. To reach the same consumption with AI, you’d need to run about 55 expensive (the upper estimate I found was 6700J - I assume this means long coding answers, research or image generation) chatgpt queries.

          Personally I think it unlikely that someone would reach that 1 prompt per minute at that expensive estimate, so all yourself: is AI really “burning entire areas” compared to just watching TV?

          It has it’s problems but this is a moral panic.

          • Alex@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            However there is sharp growth in demand being predicted and I don’t see any sign of humanity trading in some other power usage to get their data center power allocation. Even if we’re are greening the grid it is all for nothing if the extra capacity has to be filled in by more fossil fuels.

            • FishFace@piefed.social
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              4 months ago

              Yes, about 12% per year these days. Not enough to really change the picture for a long time, though.

          • guywithadeathwish@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            It all well and good comparing data centre energy usage with global production. But you miss out the important reality that a good chunk of the data centres running today and in the near future are using fossil fuel power on-site, without a grid connection, which is so much worse.

            • FishFace@piefed.social
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              4 months ago

              Be honest. Even if every single data centre did that, would it worse enough to really change the picture? It’s still going to be less than paper production by a long way for a long while.

              • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 months ago

                You’re fighting a losing battle here, some people just have decided that AI is bad no matter what. There are quite many here on lemmy, which is a shame because there are good and bad sides about AI, but IMO it for sure is here to stay, so discussions would be interesting, again IMO.

                • FishFace@piefed.social
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                  4 months ago

                  Yep, I’ve not had a productive discussion about it that I remember. It’s not just that people have made their minds up; they also will not hear anything that is misaligned with their belief, even if ultimately compatible: you don’t need to think that ai is useful or good to realise its energy use is not especially important. But if it’s bad everything about it must be bad.

                • merdaverse@lemmy.zip
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                  4 months ago

                  AI is bad, but it’s bizarre to point to its energy usage, out of all things. It’s really missing the forest for the trees. As top commenter’s data shows, even gaming on a gaming PC is so much worse (considering a 650W PSU, which is 6.5 times the TV example).

                • 7101334@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  some people just have decided that AI is bad no matter what.

                  Correct, because outside of scientific and medical applications (run by actual scientists and medical professionals), all AI is bad no matter what.

                  Nothing it can possibly do for you justifies the harm it does, and your reliance on it atrophies your cognitive skills.

          • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
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            4 months ago

            I mean you’re talking to a guy who has halved his total energy usage over the past four years including watching fewer shows, playing fewer games, and sharing more books with friends from our already existing libraries. Trying to convince me that AI isn’t that bad because it only adds a little more energy usage is a real lost cause when I’m constantly trying to push things to less energy usage in every way I can because I hear climate scientists sounding all the alarm bells.

            It’s an extra 0.5% that didn’t need to exist on top of everything else we need to reduce.

            • FishFace@piefed.social
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              4 months ago

              Do you complain that everyone is being immoral for continuing to watch TV? Or do you accept that energy usage for entertainment is allowed?

              How do you compare the relative moral value of using AI, watching TV, driving 10 miles, eating a steak and catching a flight?

              If I wanted to halve my carbon footprint I’d further reduce my meat consumption. I would do nothing about gaming, safe in the knowledge that it’s basically irrelevant.

              • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
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                4 months ago

                Everyone should be doing what they can was more my point. I went for the biggest things for myself. I already was mostly vegetarian and didn’t drive much so nothing to change there. Most of my carbon footprint was gaming, TV, and AC. Things I was able to work on easily. I do understand I’m fortunate enough to be able to add more insulation to my house and get more efficient appliances and so on. I do know we need to tackle things at the industrial level for best effect.

                My point, again was that adding more power consumption and heat generation is definitely not the way.

                • FishFace@piefed.social
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                  4 months ago

                  Sure, but everyone needs to stay sane and alive - so whether someone is generating a slop meme, or watching TV - or using Claude to keep their boss happy, or whatever, these are relatively morally equivalent things. Yet here, AI is singled out as if it were uniquely damaging, when in fact it’s similar. Just more hated.

        • edible_funk@sh.itjust.works
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          4 months ago

          So? Matrix rules motherfucker, I don’t care if you’ve been manipulated into trying to kill me, I just care that you’re trying to kill me and it’s not my responsibility to deprogram your death cult ass. Fuck em, every last one.

        • 7101334@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          And also made to be susceptible to that level of stupidity by capitalists & their owned politicians gutting education / failing to fund it adequately to begin with. (For US anyway.)

      • casualvagrancy@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Yeah, the people with the blood clots, myocarditis, infertility, and skyrocketing rates of ass cancer are the smart ones.

        They knew that COVID is stopped by a mask, except you’re sitting down at a restaurant.

        They get COVID again and again because the vaccine works!

        • forbiddencherry@lemmy.today
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          4 months ago

          The vaccine did not work well for me: I got COVID at least 3 times. Was wearing N95 masks from the start (happened to have some). Stayed at home except for vital shopping. Grew my hair out. Social distanced the best I could. Played a lot of Animal Crossing. But interacting with work and family is unavoidable, and that’s who I believe I got it from every time, as they were generally not taking it seriously.

          From what I read, when I got the shot and boosters I should have had some kind of mild reaction. Felt bad for a day or at least a few hours, something like that. But that never happened to me. However, others I talked to did have a reaction, and they also didn’t seem to get COVID. So I’m inclined to believe that the vaccine probably did work, for at least some segment of the population, just not for me for some reason. It was a rush job, so it not working for everyone isn’t a conspiracy, to me it’s somewhat expected. And maybe one of the other brands would have worked, but I don’t think you were allowed to mix them.

          • casualvagrancy@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            The conflation of antivaxxers with tin foil hat conspiracy theorists is the product of huge marketing and PR budgets. I read that Pfizer had something like 112 employees just dedicated to Reddit.

            It’s not a grand conspiracy theory. It’s just money and perverse incentives.

            People like Biden and Fauci went on TV and said “when you get vaccinated, the virus stops with you… you can’t get it and you can’t transmit it.” They forced people to get the vaccine or lose their jobs.

            And as you noted, it didn’t work, or at least not well. The data shows that it offered some protection to the initial variant, but the protection waned quickly, and once it wore off, your immune system was primed for a variant that no longer existed, which meant that you were actually at increased risk for new variants.

            I know vaccinated people who have been hospitalized with COVID multiple times, and unvaccinated people who can’t seem to get COVID if they tried. It didn’t work. They lied and made billions on that lie.

            Now think about what else they’re lying about.

          • casualvagrancy@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Decades of doctors, researchers, and Nobel prize winning immunologists willing to endure endless derision and destroy their careers.

            Hundreds of thousands of parents with identical stories.

            But we’re just the antivax crowd. Smart people believe the ads on TV.

            • 7101334@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I didn’t take the vaccine at first because they pushed it as having “no potential risks”. Every medical procedure has risks, so I knew they were bullshitting and was therefore unwilling to risk it. Mind you I worked through the entire pandemic as essential medical personnel (running a weed dispensary lmao)

              Eventually, accurate risk information about the myocarditis / etc became available. That actually made me more comfortable because at least it was fucking honest. So I could evaluate, what is likely to cause me more harm, the vaccine or COVID?

              The clear, science-based answer is COVID. You aren’t a free thinker, you just opted into a different lane of dogma.

              • casualvagrancy@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                You know that phrase when people show you who they are believe them? You knew they were lying. They told you they knew for sure it was safe and you knew they couldn’t know that. Then they admitted a little bit that it might be a little bit unsafe, and suddenly you trusted them?

                Imagine a wife, who knows that her husband has cheated on her with dozens of women. She knows that he is currently sneaking out behind her back again and confront him. After some arguing and denial, he eventually admits that he did see another woman, but insists that they only kissed. Should she believe him?

            • oyo@lemmy.zip
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              4 months ago

              Decades is a way to count people now? I think the number you’re looking for is 2%.

              • casualvagrancy@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                I don’t know where you got the 2% number and I think the real number is probably a lot higher, but let’s assume that number is right for a moment. I know what you’re probably thinking because I used to think the same thing. IF vaccines were not as safe and effective as claimed, that number would be a lot higher than 2%. Four vaccines to cause SIDS, cancer, autoimmune diseases, autism, etc. that would mean that a massive amount of very smart people we’re either dumb or lying.

                It seems inconceivable. But, the pharmaceutical industry is incomprehensively, wealthy and powerful in part because they own or effectively own pretty much every major scientific and medical journal and every med school and medical textbook. And they have a government that mandates their products and protects them from lawsuits. You can’t sue a vaccine manufacturer.

                Under those circumstances, at least one and 50 medical professionals is screaming from the rooftops that vaccines are not safe, even when the industry is dedicated to destroying their careers and reputations for doing so and is willing to throw essentially unlimited money at it.

                And there’s the fact that every study done that truly compared vaccinated and unvaccinated, such as the recent Henry Ford health study, has found that the vaccinated had significantly higher rates of every disease studied. Whereas the unvaccinated had close to zero.

      • Fermion@feddit.nl
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        4 months ago

        Genocide is cool so long as it’s targeting the people I think are vile and sub-human.

    • TheBrideWoreCrimson@sopuli.xyz
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      4 months ago

      Naaah. Get your lazy asses back to the office… so its market value doesn’t decrease.
      Also, no wind turbines or any such humbug in our neighborhood… so we can keep increasing rents. Which we, the boomers, decided ourselves, through collective hypnosis. Also, what’s with this freeloader mentality? Imagine if any of the hoi-polloi could simply use wind and sun. Like, for themselves.

  • Doug@piefed.social
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    4 months ago

    This is one of the reasons my spouse and I opted to not have kids. This place is doomed.

    • Malyca@lemmy.zip
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      4 months ago

      Dude I feel so incredibly guilty for bringing my kids into this horror. You’re doing the right thing.

    • taiyang@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Given that overpopulation likely contributes to climate change, you’re also doing your part for those who do have to live through this hellscape!

      • Axolotl@feddit.it
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        4 months ago

        It doesn’t really make a huge difference tbf, also, most of the work is done by a few countries (see India, China and many african countries), countries like South Korea or Italy actually have the opposite problem, there aren’t enough kids

      • errer@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Honestly having kids or not doesn’t make a huge difference since most countries are below replacement already anyway. Not like it’s normal to have 3+ kids anymore even if you do have kids.

        • fuck_u_spez_in_particular@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I actually think it might even be worse to not have kids at this point, someone needs to fix all the issues previous generations have created. I’m pretty sure we need human intervention, some kind of Geo-engineering/Terraforming to avoid a runway hot house earth (something like effective carbon capture)… So I don’t think antinatalism helps…

          • Ttangko@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            brother, we have a couple years left. capitalism was and will be extremely efficient.

            it actively even degraded people’s intelligence level to maximize consumerism and most importantly the holiest of all: profit accumulation. education is completely indoctrinating us in every aspect to affirm the system.

            change is completely out of reach to have every human being on earth to emancipate, so we’d dissolve all borders and switch from this hellscape of commodity based production to a to a needs based one.

            its not going to work within national solutions, all those will have to play the game of the mightiest, we need all people to realize this but media already done its job to scare people out of reach for years. its literally the allegory of the cave, and people choose the chains.

  • Tanis Nikana@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Portland, Oregon, in °C (cause I never learned Fahrenheit)

    It’s not typically known for being a hot place, but this is just the weather report for today.

    We’re so very fucked.

    (yes watch is in Japanese cause that’s what I grew up speaking and I don’t want to lose it despite having pretty good English, get off my back)

    Edit: and then I checked the weather report for later. We’re not cooked, temporarily. Grand scheme of things, thoroughly fucked. But the eye of the storm feels nice.

    • microcapybara@sopuli.xyz
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      4 months ago

      Hey friend, you sound like you’ve had a rough time with people trying to get you to “integrate” or some such. Your choices of how you experience the world and technology aren’t any one else’s concern and whatever they are, they are valid. I live and work in highly international environments and basically everyone prefers their native tongue for things like computer/phone interface.

      Fuck the haters, stay cool, peace out ✌️

      • Tanis Nikana@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I learned English when I was eleven and spent my twenties and thirties masking as yet another basic white American chick, and then in my late thirties I realized that just cause I’m not the exact ethnicity I needed to be for my childhood to be easily believable (white kid growing up on an Air Force base in rural Japan) that I didn’t need to hide it, and that I should celebrate who I was when I was barely a meter tall, thirty years ago. I try my best to keep up my Japanese, but I don’t look like someone who speaks it, which is great when I overhear people shit talking me for being trans or whatnot.

        I could take an hour and learn Fahrenheit, but I just don’t want to. I know Fahrenheit for values over 300 anyway: set oven to the number on the box.

        さあ、しょうがないね。

    • DontTreadOnBigfoot@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I’ve lived within an hour or so of Portland for 40 years, and 24C (75F) has always been a reasonable temperature for late June

  • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    The cynic in me imagines that the media purposely promoted the longer timelines to lull people into thinking we had more time, and so there was no rush.

    • Malyca@lemmy.zip
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      4 months ago

      The thing is each individual issue feeds the speed of the rest. Sun melting ice from above, rising sea temp melting from below and both speed the other up. There’s thousands of things like this. I’m not an expert or anything I just remember reading something like this.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I think it’s more about scientists being extremely conservative with their estimates, because they know they’ll get impaled over being ‘alarmist.’

      And then fired from their job.

      Also, you should check out conservative coverage. There is no timeline compression, its strait up cynicism and hostile denial.

      • jtrek@startrek.website
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        4 months ago

        I feel like some counters should immediately banish the speaker to sitting in the corner. “Alarmist” and “divisive” are the top two that come to mind. It’s almost always idiots not engaging with the material in good faith who pop those out.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I dunno about “divisive.” Sometimes thats a legitimate criticism, and pot-stirrers are little shits, IMO.

          • jtrek@startrek.website
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            4 months ago

            If someone is just trolling, sure. But usually I hear it when someone’s like “gay people should be allowed to live” and someone else goes “you’re being diViSiVe”

            • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Well there’s no retort to that. If you’re in a debate environment where an acceptable critique is “well, these people existing is not part of our beliefs, so its not okay,” then the whole debate is rigged from the start.

  • manxu@piefed.social
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    4 months ago

    As a Person Living In France, I can confirm it feels like someone put an oven in every room. Even places with A/C mostly can’t keep up with the heat. The only safe space is the car with working A/C.

    We are rapidly reaching temperatures where life becomes impossible, and we’ll need to be indoors from May to October. And we are just getting started.

    • ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      If people can live in the desert then life isn’t impossible. Tear down the buildings built for the old climate and build new purpose built structures. Find new times of the day to get outside. It’s not impossible unless you insist on not changing.

        • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          The problem with humid heat is that it doesn’t give a fuck about shade. Europe in general is humid.

          When it is humid, there’s barely a difference of temperature between shaded areas and unshaded ones.

          When it is dry, all you gotta do is find some shade and temperature drops fast, to the point where you might even have to wear a jacket because it’s too cold. That doesn’t happen with high humidity.

          • HasturInYellow@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Not to mention with high humidity your own bodies cooling is compromised. Fans don’t help as much either. At a certain temp/humidity, people just die unless they get to a climate controlled room.

      • Rothe@piefed.social
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        4 months ago

        A desert is dry. You can endure much higher temperatures in dry climates, but Europe is mostly humid.

  • Zacryon@feddit.org
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    4 months ago

    Yeah just don’t fall into the old mistake of weather = climate. Heat waves happened before climate change as well. But our current changing climate makes them more likely to happen more often and more intense, if I am informed correctly.

    • stormdelay@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      Look up how many heatwaves happened in France during the 20th century, and how many happened in the last 10 years. Yes, weather on any single day is not climate, but we are quite past “oh heatwaves happened before”.

      • Zorque@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Its not one or the other, that’s overly simplistic. Using this one data point to “prove” climate change is about as honest as someone bringing a snowball into congress to prove it’s fake.

        You need both to prove a sustainable point, otherwise it’s forgotten with the next cold snap. This is one extreme data point, and it helps to showcase the problem, but it is not the only one. Use it as part of a whole, not as a singular showcase.

        Thats my interpretation of OPs comment.

        • VoteNixon2016@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          4 months ago

          Idk when record-breaking high temperatures are showing up weekly I think they stop being “extreme” data points

          Outliers aren’t outliers anymore when all the measurements are in that range

          • Zorque@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            That they’re outliers of what has been the norm for centuries is the entire point. Saying “this is the new normal” is, as you might surmise, normalizing it.

            • VoteNixon2016@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              4 months ago

              I mean, it is the new normal? None of us (hopefully) want it to be, but it’s the reality we have to deal with, unless the laws of physics that make thermometers work suddenly changed and no one noticed

            • Aeao@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I get what you’re saying. And you’re right. It about “how often”

            • Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip
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              4 months ago

              If you have many outliers in rather small interval they stop being outliers and indicate a trend.

    • freebee@sh.itjust.works
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      4 months ago

      This kind of heatwave did NOT happen before. Weather is locked for over a week with many days or weeks to come. It’s almost not a heat_wave_, it’s just heat. Stable, unbearable, not changing but only increasing heat, started before summer even started…

    • bumblefumble@mander.xyz
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      4 months ago

      We are projected to potentially have the warmest day ever recorded in Denmark this weekend, I would call that a direct sign of climate change.

    • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      At what point does constant heat records and deadly heatwaves move from ‘weather’ to ‘climate’? 10 years? 20?

    • foofiepie@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      So I was curious about this, and asked my barber (yesterday) how much the aircon he had installed was.

      I was told the unit costs (~£1600) were exceeded by the install/labour, and that all they did was the unit fitting & plumbing/pipe to the external unit. An electrician had to be separately hired to wire it all up.

      So I’m conservatively guessing somewhere around 3.5k all in.

      For one of those normal units, I’d estimate as about 70x25cm, cooling an area less than my living room.

      I’d say anyone looking for a trade in the UK right now, would be wise to skill up on doing it as a one stop shop, and cash in for the next decade.

  • FundMECFS@piefed.zip
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    4 months ago

    Everything is fine…

    AC is quite rare in France. So everyone is basically cooking alive. Except the politicians because of course their workspace has AC.

    • mEEGal@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      AC could add like 10°C to the streets during a heatwave, + any emissions from faulty equipment is massively more powerful than CO2

      Putting AC everywhere is not a solution by any standard…

      What we need is thermal insulation for the buildings

      • bufalo1973@piefed.social
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        4 months ago

        This is the way. With good insulation doesn’t matter if there’s a heatwave or a coldwave. And there is the risk of the Gulf steam stopping and sending Europe to a mini ice age.

      • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        Except that isolations keeps warmth in, or out in the winter, but not both. Not that simple.

        But you’re right about cities and AC, I was in Madrid in august last year, jesus it was hot. So hot it was probably dangerous, I wonder how much was caused by ubiquitous AC.

        • Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip
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          4 months ago

          I beg to differ. A good insulation insulates two systems from another. In this case the air outside and the air inside. So with a good insulation you don’t need as much heating when it is cold outside and cooling when it is hot outside.

  • helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Well of course major climate change occurs when you flatten all the terrain.

    I hate modern graphics, it sucked the art out of everything digital.

    • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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      4 months ago

      Dude I am stuck on how terrible the numbers are to look at. Seriously how have all the graphic changes been this much worse?

      • helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        It’s meant to be a joke, it clearly didn’t land like I thought, oh well.

        The new map has no terrain detail, so I, jokingly, took to mean that they literally flatted out the terrain. Which would cause all sorts of climate change.

    • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      They were

      Scientists always were afraid to be too alarmist and be ignored, so they always went conservative with their estimates.

      Now we are here

      • morto@piefed.social
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        4 months ago

        Even when trying to be the most realistic, the climate is too difficult to accurately model, due to many variables and interactions between them, like feedback loops, which tend to make our models err on the generous side

  • Destide@feddit.uk
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    4 months ago

    Doesn’t matter what your intentions are.

    Doesn’t matter what earnings you posted this quarter.

    Doesn’t matter if you believe in climate change.

    Doesn’t matter if you need this truck.

    You’re on this rock of wind and water and it’ll do what it needs, to get back to it’s equilibrium. That might be at a level we don’t exist anymore nature is emotionless and you can’t control it.

    • 7101334@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Humans existed in harmony with nature for a very long time, and in many places still manage to, despite the increasing challenges posed by climate change.

      The human species isn’t what’s throwing the planet out of equilibrium. It’s capitalism and the closely-related evils of white supremacy and war.

      We can survive this if we kill capitalism, kill the notion of whiteness (and Zionism), return to listening to nature if we have strayed, and avoid war.

      Though the human population is projected to begin shrinking very soon even without major environmental pressures, so “surviving this” might not look like the society we have today. Maybe we’re maintaining our own equilibrium, at least a little bit.

      • Sʏʟᴇɴᴄᴇ@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        While I agree that the capitalist requirement for unceasing exponential growth is at the heart of modern climate change, it is slightly disingenuous to claim that humans have been living in harmony with nature prior to the industrial revolution. There is a lot of evidence for pre-modern humans clear cutting swathes of land, wiping out megafauna, and treating the environment as an object for exploitation long before the notion of infinite growth became commonplace.

        If we really want to get to the heart of it, it is the monotheistic notion that the world was created for us, that there is another (better) world for us after we die, and that therefore it is our birthright to use this land in any way we see fit. Capitalism and industrialisation have provided humanity with the tools to proliferate to such an extent that the scale of the damage we are causing is far greater than anything we were capable of previously, but the Christian imperative to reap the land has been around far longer.

        More animistic cultures/religions tend to emphasise the importance of balance with nature and recognise humanity’s place in the larger ecology, but they are therefore also less likely to propogate widely and become a dominant global force.

        • 7101334@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Fair point with megafauna, but my counterpoint would be that we were struggling to exist, like any other animal, and extinction is a part of nature. Driving things extinct isn’t inherently unnatural.

          But then you could say, “Yes, but the same applies to climate change. The earliest oxygen-exhaling plants poisoned the atmosphere and lead to the extinction of more ancient plants.” (Or was it the giant fungus? I forget.) And you’d have a point there too.

          But I think the key difference is having a viable alternative and being aware of the suffering we’re causing. We know what we’re doing; the plants did not, they just evolved that way. We have alternatives to farming and hunting animals until their extinction; early inhabitants of Aotearoa, who drove the Moa to extinction, probably didn’t. I will pick preserving megafauna over having my hypothetical preferred megafauna dinner, but I can’t pretend I’d pick preserving megafauna over preventing my family from starving to death.

          If we really want to get to the heart of it, it is the monotheistic notion that the world was created for us, that there is another (better) world for us after we die, and that therefore it is our birthright to use this land in any way we see fit. Capitalism and industrialisation have provided humanity with the tools to proliferate to such an extent that the scale of the damage we are causing is far greater than anything we were capable of previously, but the Christian imperative to reap the land has been around far longer.

          I agree so strongly that that philosophy definitely makes it much worse. My main issue with Abrahamic religions is the notion that god resembles man (and vice versa) instead of resembling forces of nature.

          But I don’t think monotheism was a prevailing philosophy when the megafauna were driven to extinction. Animals (and sometimes even plants) have driven each other to extinction many times in our planet’s history, and we’re just animals. I think the only thing that gives us the potential to rise above that status is knowledge, and that acting as caretakers to all other living beings on this planet is the highest application of that knowledge in the short-term. Long-term, the highest application is extending the reach of life to other planets, even if it’s as simple as intentional panspermia with extremophile microbes.

    • remon@ani.social
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      4 months ago

      Doesn’t matter what earnings you posted this quarter.

      That actually matters quite a bit. If you have enough money you can easily deal with the consequences of climate change until you’re dead.

  • thefluffiest@feddit.nl
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    4 months ago

    People in Brittany in 2014: oh we’ll be fine no worries 😙

    People in Brittany in 2026: what da fuk just happen? 🥵